Would You Kill God?

[Immoren]

"No Creation Without Destruction.
No Destruction Without Creation."

Here is an essential misunderstanding of the nature of God. We as finite beings have to use materials around us to create a thing. We must consume food to give ourselves sufficient energy to do the act of creation. In short, that which is not omnipotent must use the matter around it to create.
God, however, is omnipotent. He is able to create matter from himself due to his inherent self-sufficiency. He is not simply all powerful. He is power.

That's what his PR-department wants us to believe.

[Linnuis]

No. Because the Christian God is the sustainer of all creation. If God ceased to exist then so too would all life and space-time. In killing God you would effectively kill every living thing, including yourself.

There is no evidence, even in the bible, that this is the case.

Here is an essential misunderstanding of the nature of God. We as finite beings have to use materials around us to create a thing. We must consume food to give ourselves sufficient energy to do the act of creation. In short, that which is not omnipotent must use the matter around it to create.
God, however, is omnipotent. He is able to create matter from himself due to his inherent self-sufficiency. He is not simply all powerful. He is power.

Except when it comes to iron chariots.

What bible do you read? One of God's titles is El-Shaddai. Commonly translated as almighty, meaning omnipotent according to Chambers dictionary.
Maker of all things:
Isaiah 44:24 – “This is what the LORD says—your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself.”

Power of salvation:
Jude 24-25– “To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy—to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.”

Power over life and death:
John 10:17-18 – “The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

Virtually every great theologian, of any denomination, acknowledge the omnipotence of God. He is the creator of all things.

[Neutraligon]

There is no evidence, even in the bible, that this is the case.



Except when it comes to iron chariots.

What bible do you read? One of God's titles is El-Shaddai. Commonly translated as almighty, meaning omnipotent according to Chambers dictionary.
Maker of all things:
Isaiah 44:24 – “This is what the LORD says—your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself.”

Power of salvation:
Jude 24-25– “To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy—to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.”

Power over life and death:
John 10:17-18 – “The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

Virtually every great theologian, of any denomination, acknowledge the omnipotence of God. He is the creator of all things.

Omnipotent does not mean essential to the continuing existence of the universe. None of the others support that claim. Being the creator does not mean he continues to be essential, nor does it mean his death would cause the destruction of everything.

Again...iron chariots.

[Linnuis]

You're talking about Jsuss Christ?
Well i guess that'd be a problem for the Roman chatolics who claim that Christ had only one Divine nature, but we Orthodox Christians say He had two: he was a God-human(two natures in one).

I'm no Roman Catholic, but since when do RC's deny the humanity of Christ? That, my friend is Arianism. A heresy that was strongly opposed by both eastern and western Christianity.

[Linnuis]

What bible do you read? One of God's titles is El-Shaddai. Commonly translated as almighty, meaning omnipotent according to Chambers dictionary.
Maker of all things:
Isaiah 44:24 – “This is what the LORD says—your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself.”

Power of salvation:
Jude 24-25– “To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy—to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.”

Power over life and death:
John 10:17-18 – “The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

Virtually every great theologian, of any denomination, acknowledge the omnipotence of God. He is the creator of all things.

Omnipotent does not mean essential to the continuing existence of the universe. None of the others support that claim. Being the creator does not mean he continues to be essential, nor does it mean his death would cause the destruction of everything.

Again...iron chariots.

May I direct you to the book of Hebrews?

1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

[Neutraligon]

Omnipotent does not mean essential to the continuing existence of the universe. None of the others support that claim. Being the creator does not mean he continues to be essential, nor does it mean his death would cause the destruction of everything.

Again...iron chariots.

May I direct you to the book of Hebrews?

1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

Please tell me exactly which passage that is in Hebrews. A quick look say you are right. You know...I would rather not exist then to be forced to be a slave to an evil god (and yes I see the god of the old testament and the new testament as evil).

[Linnuis]

May I direct you to the book of Hebrews?

1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

Please tell me exactly which passage that is in Hebrews.

Sure. Chapter 1 verse 1-3.

[Linnuis]

May I direct you to the book of Hebrews?

1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

Please tell me exactly which passage that is in Hebrews. A quick look say you are right. You know...I would rather not exist then to be forced to be a slave to an evil god (and yes I see the god of the old testament and the new testament as evil).

OK, so you see God as evil. Even though I don't, I'm not going to bother convincing you otherwise with arguments I'm sure you've heard before. I'll just leave you with a question. Even if God is evil, what are you going to do about it? If he exists, he exists, and not believing in him isn't going to change it.

Thanks for the debate!

[Australian rePublic]

If this were any other religion, this thread would be closed for trolling/flamming. But because it's Christianity you somehow manage to allow it to last this long

[Immoren]

Please tell me exactly which passage that is in Hebrews. A quick look say you are right. You know...I would rather not exist then to be forced to be a slave to an evil god (and yes I see the god of the old testament and the new testament as evil).

OK, so you see God as evil. Even though I don't, I'm not going to bother convincing you otherwise with arguments I'm sure you've heard before. I'll just leave you with a question. Even if God is evil, what are you going to do about it? If he exists, he exists, and not believing in him isn't going to change it.

Thanks for the debate!

We'll invade heaven of course. Haven't you reade The Salvation War?

[Neutraligon]

Please tell me exactly which passage that is in Hebrews. A quick look say you are right. You know...I would rather not exist then to be forced to be a slave to an evil god (and yes I see the god of the old testament and the new testament as evil).

OK, so you see God as evil. Even though I don't, I'm not going to bother convincing you otherwise with arguments I'm sure you've heard before. I'll just leave you with a question. Even if God is evil, what are you going to do about it? If he exists, he exists, and not believing in him isn't going to change it.

Thanks for the debate!

Correct if he exists he exists. If he is evil then I would find it my duty to ensure that he is unable to perform evil acts (in this hypothetical by killing him).

[Neutraligon]

If this were any other religion, this thread would be closed for trolling/flamming. But because it's Christianity you somehow manage to allow it to last this long

If you have found flaming or trolling here then go ahead and report it.

[Linnuis]

OK, so you see God as evil. Even though I don't, I'm not going to bother convincing you otherwise with arguments I'm sure you've heard before. I'll just leave you with a question. Even if God is evil, what are you going to do about it? If he exists, he exists, and not believing in him isn't going to change it.

Thanks for the debate!

Correct if he exists he exists. If he is evil then I would find it my duty to ensure that he is unable to perform evil acts (in this hypothetical by killing him).

Now we come to the nature of "evil". But that's a topic for another forum.

[Infected Mushroom]

The day this option was presented, I knew that I HAD TO DO IT. No... ONLY I could do it. I understood that killing God was a crime. But THERE WAS NO OTHER WAY. THE WORLD HAD TO BE FIXED! A purpose given to me... Only I could do it (voice trembles).

(looks at the rest of NSG)

WHO ELSE COULD HAVE DONE IT? ... AND COME THIS FAR? WOULD THEY HAVE KEPT GOING?

The only one who can create a new world... is me.

[OES Zaphiron]

...Nah, I couldn't do it.

Knowing me, I'd just hand back the button and ask him if he wanted something to drink.

[Conscentia]

The day this option was presented, I knew that I HAD TO DO IT. No... ONLY I could do it. I understood that killing God was a crime. But THERE WAS NO OTHER WAY. THE WORLD HAD TO BE FIXED! A purpose given to me... Only I could do it (voice trembles).

(looks at the rest of NSG)

WHO ELSE COULD HAVE DONE IT? ... AND COME THIS FAR? WOULD THEY HAVE KEPT GOING?

The only one who can create a new world... is me.

Are you referencing something?

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

OK, so you see God as evil. Even though I don't, I'm not going to bother convincing you otherwise with arguments I'm sure you've heard before. I'll just leave you with a question. Even if God is evil, what are you going to do about it? If he exists, he exists, and not believing in him isn't going to change it.

Thanks for the debate!

We'll invade heaven of course. Haven't you reade The Salvation War?

Implying God was an extra-dimensional alien instead of the Creator.

One does not simply kill a sleeping deity without destroying everything.

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

What bible do you read? One of God's titles is El-Shaddai. Commonly translated as almighty, meaning omnipotent according to Chambers dictionary.
Maker of all things:
Isaiah 44:24 – “This is what the LORD says—your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself.”

Power of salvation:
Jude 24-25– “To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy—to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.”

Power over life and death:
John 10:17-18 – “The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

Virtually every great theologian, of any denomination, acknowledge the omnipotence of God. He is the creator of all things.

Omnipotent does not mean essential to the continuing existence of the universe. None of the others support that claim. Being the creator does not mean he continues to be essential, nor does it mean his death would cause the destruction of everything.

Again...iron chariots.

Which are irrelevant since YHWH has spread beyond the borders of Judah becoming an global deity.

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

It's not hypothetic, it's self-denying. A god who you can kill isn't a God.

All gods die, once you strip them of followers.

Except the universe doesn't die once you strip them of followers.

After the heat death a new heaven, and a new earth will emerge, and all of this will be pointless debating.

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

Meanwhile no one complains that the Whore of Babylon has been running things since the fall of Rome.

[Immoren]

All gods die, once you strip them of followers.

Except the universe doesn't die once you strip them of followers.

After the heat death a new heaven, and a new earth will emerge, and all of this will be pointless debating.

Indeed.

[ObamaDoesntCare]

You can't kill God, that's why he's a God.

Exactly.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

"No Creation Without Destruction.
No Destruction Without Creation."

Here is an essential misunderstanding of the nature of God. We as finite beings have to use materials around us to create a thing. We must consume food to give ourselves sufficient energy to do the act of creation. In short, that which is not omnipotent must use the matter around it to create.
God, however, is omnipotent. He is able to create matter from himself due to his inherent self-sufficiency. He is not simply all powerful. He is power.

Says the book that he wrote.

Seems a bit biased, if you ask me. *nods*

[Prussia-Steinbach]

You can't kill God, that's why he's a God.

Exactly.

Mother of God on a flaming horse dildo hypotheticals are things

[Conscentia]

It's not hypothetic, it's self-denying. A god who you can kill isn't a God.

All gods die, once you strip them of followers.

"That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die." - Al-Azif