Russian airstrikes in Syria

[Conserative Morality]

If done correctly, yes.

Afghanistan went stellarly.

It took some dozen years before reasonably free elections were held, and the country is still hardly a bastion of human rights.

Fire can't build a house. The best it can do is burn down prison walls.

[The balkens]

You would note that we can win battles and wars but not hearts and minds.
And why doesnt russia try invading the US? im delighted to see the results.

Because neither Russia nor US can successfully invade each other. Generally speaking, when there's a big sign saying "if you attack, you will lose", people tend not to attack. Poroshenko seems to be the exception to that rule.

seems Putin is too, because ISIS wont be stopped by a Pack of Russians aiding some mass murdering fuck head or why the war started in the first place.

[Shofercia]

You think the US can successfully invade Iran? TOP LEL Bro. Did you miss this part: much like the US was unable to fight Vietnam in Vietnam. Obviously if Iran decides to attack Turkey or Israel, US would be able to repel the attack, but an invasion of Iran, given the current morale climate, is simply impossible.

Colin Powell begs to differ.

He can beg. How're those WMD claims treating him?

If done correctly, yes.

Afghanistan went stellarly.

Right into the SCO

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

[The balkens]

You would note that we can win battles and wars but not hearts and minds.
And why doesnt russia try invading the US? im delighted to see the results.

Russia isn't stupid. Nobody is dumb enough to think they can invade the US and survive.

I think Russia IS that stupid thatthey think they can win against the US here. Despite in reality it will only cause the same result as '91.

Russia and ISIS.

Our Beloved monsters, enjoy yourselves.

[Shofercia]

Because neither Russia nor US can successfully invade each other. Generally speaking, when there's a big sign saying "if you attack, you will lose", people tend not to attack. Poroshenko seems to be the exception to that rule.

seems Putin is too, because ISIS wont be stopped by a Pack of Russians aiding some mass murdering fuck head against or why the war started in the first place.

Of course it won't be stopped by a pack. ISIS will be stopped by an alliance of Russian Special Forces, Iran's Forces, Iraq's Forces, Syria's Forces, the Kurds, others like the Kurds, and NATO's bombing campaign. And that combination packs quite a punch.

[New Werpland]

If done correctly, yes.

Tell us your plan as to how to do it correctly.

Continue to bomb isis, and stop aiding Syrian rebel groups.

Once Assad is back in power(and Russia goes kaput), pressure Assad to liberalize and allow for more democracy.

Though this is unlikely to happen.

[The balkens]

seems Putin is too, because ISIS wont be stopped by a Pack of Russians aiding some mass murdering fuck head against or why the war started in the first place.

Of course it won't be stopped by a pack. ISIS will be stopped by an alliance of Russian Special Forces, Iran's Forces, Iraq's Forces, Syria's Forces, the Kurds, others like the Kurds, and NATO's bombing campaign. And that combination packs quite a punch.

Cannot stop laughing.

[Shofercia]

Russia isn't stupid. Nobody is dumb enough to think they can invade the US and survive.

I think Russia IS that stupid thatthey think they can win against the US here. Despite in reality it will only cause the same result as '91.

Russia and ISIS.

Our Beloved monsters, enjoy yourselves.

Again with the "Royal We" Balk?

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Colin Powell begs to differ.

He can beg. How're those WMD claims treating him?

Considering Sadam is dead and Powell is retired, I'd say he's doing pretty well.

[Vistulange]

Also, do you believe that Western intervention will honestly bring about democracy and human rights to the region? Do you honestly believe that?

If done correctly, yes.

The problem is, you lot don't know how to "do it correctly". You take your goddamned values, you think they are universal, you try to tack them onto any country and when it fails, you say "oh, they aren't civilized". So no, you haven't every made a place better with your intervention.

Realpolitik applied incorrectly led to this mess. The arming of fundamentalist groups against Soviet-backed secular dictatorships led to this mess, CM.

The Soviets weren't exactly clean when it came to supporting fundamentalists in US-backed dictatorships.

Also, do you believe that Western intervention will honestly bring about democracy and human rights to the region? Do you honestly believe that?

No. But I think that Western intervention can clear the more brutal dictatorships in the area.

We can't build a nation. That's not possible, and it's not desirable. That must come from within. But to connect a country from the rest of the world, to let it breathe even just a little, like Iran*, can bring about change in time.

*Yes, I fully understand that Iran's current situation was caused by the US support of a brutal dictator leading to a fundamentalist backlash.

I am not defending the Soviets. The Soviet Union is gone now, but the US remains. The fact that the US supplied these fundamentalist groups back in the day remains.

And yes, you basically undermined your own argument. The deal with Iran is precisely why you lot should stay the hell out of places you fail to understand in the long-term.

[The balkens]

I think Russia IS that stupid thatthey think they can win against the US here. Despite in reality it will only cause the same result as '91.

Russia and ISIS.

Our Beloved monsters, enjoy yourselves.

Again with the "Royal We" Balk?

Youre the one with a massive hate-boner for the country that you are currently living in and getting an education from?

Or is Russia lacking in the education department?

[Shofercia]

Tell us your plan as to how to do it correctly.

Continue to bomb isis, and stop aiding Syrian rebel groups.

Once Assad is back in power(and Russia goes kaput), pressure Assad to liberalize and allow for more democracy.

Though this is unlikely to happen.

The Russians are only sending in special forces. It'll take a lot more than that for Russia to go kaput. Frankly, the West lacks the resources to perform the latter.

Of course it won't be stopped by a pack. ISIS will be stopped by an alliance of Russian Special Forces, Iran's Forces, Iraq's Forces, Syria's Forces, the Kurds, others like the Kurds, and NATO's bombing campaign. And that combination packs quite a punch.

Cannot stop laughing.

Good. Laugh all you want, it's just he early stages, and he who laughs last, laughs best.

[West Dixieland]

As I understand it, the RF is bombing FSA positions because they're buddy-buddy with Assad. They have no reason to bomb ISIS, especially while ISIS fights the FSA.

[Uxupox]

Tell us your plan as to how to do it correctly.

Continue to bomb isis, and stop aiding Syrian rebel groups.

Once Assad is back in power(and Russia goes kaput), pressure Assad to liberalize and allow for more democracy.

Though this is unlikely to happen.

If Assad firmly holds to power after the civil war I'm pretty sure that he won't release his hold over the country.

[Conserative Morality]

I am not defending the Soviets. The Soviet Union is gone now, but the US remains. The fact that the US supplied these fundamentalist groups back in the day remains.

Of course. But when you said that the crisis was caused by US funding of fundamentalist groups, I felt the need to speak up and share the blame.

And yes, you basically undermined your own argument. The deal with Iran is precisely why you lot should stay the hell out of places you fail to understand in the long-term.

No, my Iran argument was spot on - realpolitik leads to this kind of mess, not ideologically motivated intervention. If we'd stuck to our values, Mossadegh would've never been overthrown. We played a dangerous game of power and politics, and it's treating the world like a game, the zero-sum calculations of realpolitik, that got us so fucked.

[New Werpland]

If done correctly, yes.

The problem is, you lot don't know how to "do it correctly". You take your goddamned values, you think they are universal, you try to tack them onto any country and when it fails, you say "oh, they aren't civilized". So no, you haven't every made a place better with your intervention.

There are other reasons for why democracy doesn't work well when imposed by the West than "Arabs are not capable of Democracy". And I find this strange coming from someone who purports to be pro Liberal Democracy.

[Vistulange]

The problem is, you lot don't know how to "do it correctly". You take your goddamned values, you think they are universal, you try to tack them onto any country and when it fails, you say "oh, they aren't civilized". So no, you haven't every made a place better with your intervention.

There are other reasons for why democracy doesn't work well when imposed by the West than "Arabs are not capable of Democracy". And I find this strange coming from someone who purports to be pro Liberal Democracy.

Pro-liberal democracy in Turkey. I don't give a damn about other countries. As long as they are allies of Turkey and our interests, they can be dictatorships if they want.

That's how the United States rolled, that's what made them an influential country. While Turkey cannot be a superpower, nor should it be, we can very well be a regional power and we should be. The way to that doesn't lie through hugs or kisses, but guns and tanks if need be.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

There are other reasons for why democracy doesn't work well when imposed by the West than "Arabs are not capable of Democracy". And I find this strange coming from someone who purports to be pro Liberal Democracy.

Pro-liberal democracy in Turkey. I don't give a damn about other countries. As long as they are allies of Turkey and our interests, they can be dictatorships if they want.

That's how the United States rolled, that's what made them an influential country. While Turkey cannot be a superpower, nor should it be, we can very well be a regional power and we should be. The way to that doesn't lie through hugs or kisses, but guns and tanks if need be.

Wow I never thought I'd watch the radicalization process run its course in one sitting. I guess nationalism has that effect.

[The balkens]

There are other reasons for why democracy doesn't work well when imposed by the West than "Arabs are not capable of Democracy". And I find this strange coming from someone who purports to be pro Liberal Democracy.

Pro-liberal democracy in Turkey. I don't give a damn about other countries. As long as they are allies of Turkey and our interests, they can be dictatorships if they want.

That's how the United States rolled, that's what made them an influential country. While Turkey cannot be a superpower, nor should it be, we can very well be a regional power and we should be. The way to that doesn't lie through hugs on kisses, but guns and tanks if need be.

You know, you couldve had your regional power status some months ago at Kobani.

But no. make America do all the work. as usual.

[Shofercia]

Again with the "Royal We" Balk?

Youre the one with a massive hate-boner for the country that you are currently living in and getting an education from?

Or is Russia lacking in the education department?

America's awesome. I don't hate America. America is a beautiful country and an asset to the World.

I hate some stupid politicians who think it's a great idea to listen to those who have wet dreams of Russia collapsing and America ruling the World, and prefer wasting money on pointless foreign adventures while America's middle class eats the tax bills, and teachers continue to be underfunded. Oh, and said group also loves to pretend that they speak for all Americans, akin to Bush claiming that he's got a mandate after losing the popular vote. That's who most of my posts are geared against.

If I hated America, I'd encourage these groups, because the more money America wastes abroad, the less money the teachers and middle class get at home, and that's the thing that's truly fucking over America. It's not the job of my tax dollars to fund someone's wet dreams of World domination. It's not the job of my tax dollars to go after every fucking dictator in a funny hat. I want my tax dollars to go towards improving education, making healthcare more efficient, rebuilding infrastructure, promoting direct democracy in the US, etc.

I don't want America to collapse. I don't want Russia to collapse. I don't want countries to collapse; I'm not the wet dreamer who's out there with a boner, hoping that millions suffer because of abstract idiocy. I'm not the country collapse addicted junky saying "nothing of value will be lost when the US collapses". I don't engage in that pathetic, insane and delusion crap.

[Uxupox]

There are other reasons for why democracy doesn't work well when imposed by the West than "Arabs are not capable of Democracy". And I find this strange coming from someone who purports to be pro Liberal Democracy.

Pro-liberal democracy in Turkey. I don't give a damn about other countries. As long as they are allies of Turkey and our interests, they can be dictatorships if they want.

That's how the United States rolled, that's what made them an influential country. While Turkey cannot be a superpower, nor should it be, we can very well be a regional power and we should be. The way to that doesn't lie through hugs on kisses, but guns and tanks if need be.

Isn't that what most nations do though? The British didn't a world power with hugs and kisses, nor the French, nor the Spanish, nor the Soviets and yes neither did the US as well.

[Conserative Morality]

Pro-liberal democracy in Turkey. I don't give a damn about other countries. As long as they are allies of Turkey and our interests, they can be dictatorships if they want.

That's how the United States rolled, that's what made them an influential country. While Turkey cannot be a superpower, nor should it be, we can very well be a regional power and we should be. The way to that doesn't lie through hugs on kisses, but guns and tanks if need be.

No.

No.

Not at all.

If you'll notice, of all those dictatorships we backed, the vast, vast majority of those dictatorships? Gone or turned against us.

Our fellow liberal democratic states? They've stood by us.

WW2 and its aftermath made us a superpower, not the realpolitik of the Cold War. We've been coasting on that and our good position vis a vis population and industry ever since.

[Geilinor]

There are other reasons for why democracy doesn't work well when imposed by the West than "Arabs are not capable of Democracy". And I find this strange coming from someone who purports to be pro Liberal Democracy.

Pro-liberal democracy in Turkey. I don't give a damn about other countries. As long as they are allies of Turkey and our interests, they can be dictatorships if they want.

That's how the United States rolled, that's what made them an influential country. While Turkey cannot be a superpower, nor should it be, we can very well be a regional power and we should be. The way to that doesn't lie through hugs on kisses, but guns and tanks if need be.

The point is that realpolitik didn't work when the US tried it in Iran in 1953 and it won't work when Turkey tries it. Learn from our mistakes rather than making them yourself. Foreign policy realism led to two world wars and a Cold War. Idealism led to the United Nations.

[The balkens]

Youre the one with a massive hate-boner for the country that you are currently living in and getting an education from?

Or is Russia lacking in the education department?

America's awesome. I don't hate America. America is a beautiful country and an asset to the World.

I hate some stupid politicians who think it's a great idea to listen to those who have wet dreams of Russia collapsing and America ruling the World, and prefer wasting money on pointless foreign adventures while America's middle class eats the tax bills, and teachers continue to be underfunded. Oh, and said group also loves to pretend that they speak for all Americans, akin to Bush claiming that he's got a mandate after losing the popular vote. That's who most of my posts are geared against.

If I hated America, I'd encourage these groups, because the more money America wastes abroad, the less money the teachers and middle class get at home, and that's the thing that's truly fucking over America. It's not the job of my tax dollars to fund someone's wet dreams of World domination. It's not the job of my tax dollars to go after every fucking dictator in a funny hat. I want my tax dollars to go towards improving education, making healthcare more efficient, rebuilding infrastructure, promoting direct democracy in the US, etc.

I don't want America to collapse. I don't want Russia to collapse. I don't want countries to collapse; I'm not the wet dreamer who's out there with a boner, hoping that millions suffer because of abstract idiocy. I'm not the country collapse addicted junky saying "nothing of value will be lost when the US collapses". I don't engage in that pathetic, insane and delusion crap.

Welcome to being a superpower, too bad russia doesnt know what that is like.

[Shofercia]

As I understand it, the RF is bombing FSA positions because they're buddy-buddy with Assad. They have no reason to bomb ISIS, especially while ISIS fights the FSA.

All sides are attacking ISIS, and ISIS is attacking everyone.

Pro-liberal democracy in Turkey. I don't give a damn about other countries. As long as they are allies of Turkey and our interests, they can be dictatorships if they want.

That's how the United States rolled, that's what made them an influential country. While Turkey cannot be a superpower, nor should it be, we can very well be a regional power and we should be. The way to that doesn't lie through hugs on kisses, but guns and tanks if need be.

You know, you couldve had your regional power status some months ago at Kobani.

But no. make America do all the work. as usual.

And now we take you to reality, where the US aided the Kurds, who did most the work.