Who is to blame for the start of WW1?

by **Mirakai** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:16 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Galloism wrote:Archduke Franz Ferdinand's driver. If he had kept up with the itinerary, no World War 1.

In his defense, the first assassination attempt already sent the itinerary all to hell.

On the other hand, if Gavrilo Princip had eaten a larger breakfast that morning, he wouldn't have felt the need to go get a sandwich...

Blame the sandwich place owners then. If they hadn't set up shop near Ferdinand's assassination, this would have never happened

by **The Socialist Siverian State** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:18 pm

Mirakai wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:In his defense, the first assassination attempt already sent the itinerary all to hell.

On the other hand, if Gavrilo Princip had eaten a larger breakfast that morning, he wouldn't have felt the need to go get a sandwich...

Blame the sandwich place owners then. If they hadn't set up shop near Ferdinand's assassination, this would have never happened

Ferdinand shouldn't have taken that trip.

by **American Imperial Union** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:18 pm

Austria. Which funnily enough you can probably make a case to blame them for world war 2 and the holocaust, too.

But the real fault lies with the allies, especially Britain and france. Britain maneuvered herself into a war with Germany because they were afraid of it's growing navy, which it couldn't accept. They're also at fault for world war 2 and it's consequences, which are directly related to the treaty of versailles.

I feel it is the duty of the modem world to return to Germany her pre-1918 borders and compensation for ww1 and ww2 losses. France and Britain should be punished and Austria annexed into germany.

We should also assist Germany in ridding themselves of the liberals influence and those who support strafgesetzbuch 86, and other crimes against human freedom.

by **Senkaku** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:19 pm

Franz Ferdinand's goddamn driver. I understand being flustered by a bomb attack, but come on man, you're a professional and you're driving the Archduke. Don't take wrong turns right into waiting assassins.

by **Gim** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:20 pm

American Imperial Union wrote:Austria. Which funnily enough you can probably make a case to blame them for world war 2 and the holocaust, too.

But the real fault lies with the allies, especially Britain and france. Britain maneuvered herself into a war with Germany because they were afraid of it's growing navy, which it couldn't accept. They're also at fault for world war 2 and it's consequences, which are directly related to the treaty of versailles.

I feel it is the duty of the modem world to return to Germany her pre-1918 borders and compensation for ww1 and ww2 losses. France and Britain should be punished and Austria annexed into germany.

We should also assist Germany in ridding themselves of the liberals influence and those who support strafgesetzbuch 86, and other crimes against human freedom.

Exactly as I stated. The armaments race between Germany and Britain.

by **The Socialist Siverian State** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:22 pm

Senkaku wrote:Franz Ferdinand's goddamn driver. I understand being flustered by a bomb attack, but come on man, you're a professional and you're driving the Archduke. Don't take wrong turns right into waiting assassins.

How would they know?

by **Gim** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:26 pm

The Socialist Siverian State wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Franz Ferdinand's goddamn driver. I understand being flustered by a bomb attack, but come on man, you're a professional and you're driving the Archduke. Don't take wrong turns right into waiting assassins.

How would they know?

They wouldn't know; what he's saying is he should've driven without deviating. He should at least be aware going the wrong way could expose the royal family into some kind of danger.

by **Tafhan** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:27 pm

The Wolven League wrote:
Tafhan wrote:The Serbians and other Austria Hungarian sepratist rabble rousers. But Bismarcks ambition and Indeed, the apparent ambition of the German Empire, (and the similar ambition of Britain) contributed greatly.

"...and the mighty war of imperialism stabbed imperialism in the heart in an ironic twist of fate, and suddenly people no longer felt the desire to wear top hats while sitting atop a throne of native skulls.

The end."

I wouldnt say that. The european public is eager to repeat the cycle again at the moment and split their seperate ways cause immigrants.

by **The Socialist Siverian State** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:33 pm

Gim wrote:
The Socialist Siverian State wrote:How would they know?

They wouldn't know; what he's saying is he should've driven without deviating. He should at least be aware going the wrong way could expose the royal family into some kind of danger.

Well, I agree with that. But there should have been more security for the Archduke, TWO assassination attempts.

by **Gim** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:34 pm

The Socialist Siverian State wrote:
Gim wrote:
They wouldn't know; what he's saying is he should've driven without deviating. He should at least be aware going the wrong way could expose the royal family into some kind of danger.

Well, I agree with that. But there should have been more security for the Archduke, TWO assassination attempts.

Well, if you have security around the Archduke, everyone is going to know he's in there, so he probably travelled without guards to conceal his identity.

by **Shaggai** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:39 pm

I'm going to say it was King David. No King David, no Jesus, no Holy Roman Empire, no Austria-Hungary, no WWI.

by **The Socialist Siverian State** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:39 pm

Gim wrote:
The Socialist Siverian State wrote:Well, I agree with that. But there should have been more security for the Archduke, TWO assassination attempts.

Well, if you have security around the Archduke, everyone is going to know he's in there, so he probably travelled without guards to conceal his identity.

Why and how would he travel through the city, and expect to be hidden?

by **Greed and Death** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:44 pm

Russia, Germany being the smaller country stuck between France and Russia would have to be aggressive in order to have a chance of surviving a war between both.

Alos during the war the Central powers were the ones willing to go back to pre war boundaries.

by **Gim** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:44 pm

The Socialist Siverian State wrote:
Gim wrote:
Well, if you have security around the Archduke, everyone is going to know he's in there, so he probably travelled without guards to conceal his identity.

Why and how would he travel through the city, and expect to be hidden?

Well, that's what he thought, and, apparently, that didn't work.

by **The Socialist Siverian State** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:44 pm

greed and death wrote:Russia, Germany being the smaller country stuck between France and Russia would have to be aggressive in order to have a chance of surviving a war between both.

Alos during the war the Central powers were the ones willing to go back to pre war boundaries.

I blame Russia and Austria-Hungary.

by **The Socialist Siverian State** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:45 pm

Gim wrote:
The Socialist Siverian State wrote:Why and how would he travel through the city, and expect to be hidden?

Well, that's what he thought, and, apparently, that didn't work.

For obvious reasons.

by **Gim** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:47 pm

The Socialist Siverian State wrote:
greed and death wrote:Russia, Germany being the smaller country stuck between France and Russia would have to be aggressive in order to have a chance of surviving a war between both.

Alos during the war the Central powers were the ones willing to go back to pre war boundaries.

I blame Russia and Austria-Hungary.

Could be.

Russia was the first country to mobilize their army which symbolized that they were declaring war. They even continued to prepare their military while they carried diplomatic negotiations for peaceful solutions to the problem. These militaristic approaches threatened other countries, such as Germany.

by **Salus Maior** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:49 pm

Europe.

...And Asia...

....And Africa...

by **The Salvatagard Republic** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:49 pm

The Conez Imperium wrote:I've never seen this thread before, in my time on Nationstates and since it's the 100th year anniversary lets do this then, who is to blame for the start of WW1?

On the surface everyone would say Germany because they invaded Belgium. But what about other countries? Russia could be blamed for their partial moblisation fueling an European mobilisation, Austria-Hungary could also be blamed for their impossible ultimatum to Serbia knowing full well Serbia would not accept. Perhaps one cannot blame nations but people or ideas: Nationalism, Imperialism, Kaiser Wilhelm II, Conrad von Hötzendorf could all be blamed for the start of WW1. Listed below is but a very brief summary for the popular causes for the war

Nations

Germany
-Starting the naval arms race between Britain, antagonising Britain
-Schlieffen plan forced Germany to go to war against France if she wanted to go to war against Russia.
-Infamous blank check to Austria-Hungary
-When Serbia accepted the ultimatum, Wilhelm responded by advocating for an occupation of their capital Belgrade because the Serbians can't be trusted
-Fischer Thesis: Essentially Germany dreamed of becoming a large colonial power thus by 1911 accepted the risk for war and started to prepare for expansion

Austria-Hungary
-They know that the ultimatum was impossible to accept, thus giving Austria-Hungary the excuse to wage war also bringing in Russia
-Conrad, the greatest advocator for a war against Serbia

Russia
-Partial moblisation starting an European mobilisation
-Franco-Russian alliance (1892) forced France to join a Russian war.
-Russian wishes of united slavic people, aligning themselves with Serbia

France
-Gave a 'blank cheque' to Russia, making no attempt to restrain Russia

Britain
-Policy of splendid isolation, Britain could have stopped the war during the July crisis if she was more decisive and authoritarian

Themes

Nationalism
-Russian wishes of united slavic people, aligning themselves with Serbia

Imperialism
-The Russian quest for a hot water port
-Germany's imperialist dreams of a "place in the sun" causing tension in Africa with Britain.
-Germany's ambition for "Mittelafrika"

Alliance System
-The Triple Alliance between Germany, Austria-Hungary and Italy and the Triple Entente between France, Russia and Britain with various other alliances and allegiances.

Militarism
-From Edward Gray 1909 in reference to the Naval race "[Germany navy is a question of] our independence, our very existence would be at stake"
-From Edward Gray's memoirs '[Militarism] Great armaments lead inevitably to war"

In my opinion,

All nations deserve some blame for their responsibility for WWI, never the less Germany deserves the most for starting a European war and Russia deserves great blame in escalating the conflict from a Balkan conflict, to a European conflict.

Whilst Austrian-Hungarian attempted to use the assasiantion of Franz Ferdinard as an excuse to destroy a rebellious neighbor, Germany alone had the power to halt this aggression but it persisted with it's blank cheque further antagonising the Balkan region.
With Kaiser Wilhelm's militaristic and imperialistic ambitions, Germany was convinced that a European war would fulfill its' "place in the sun" or "millteafrika" thus when Serbia refused the ultimatum, Wilhelm persisted in attacking Serbia
Russia, humiliated after the 1856 defeat in the Crimean war and with a populace increasingly rebellious under the Tsar's rule needed foreign policy success. Hence in an attempt to unify the slavic people, lay her support for Serbia. When Austria-Hungary attacked Serbia and encouraged by a blank cheque given to them by France resulted in a Russian moblisation for war; Russia, not Germany moblisised for war thus bringing the Balkan conflict into the European stage with the dragging in of France
Germany panicked over Russian moblisation in 10 days enacted the Schiefflen plan in a desperate attempt to contain a war-ready Russia, thus starting the World War with its attack on neutral Belgium soil.

by **Outer Sparta** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:51 pm

Gim wrote:
The Socialist Siverian State wrote:I blame Russia and Austria-Hungary.

Could be.

Russia was the first country to mobilize their army which symbolized that they were declaring war. They even continued to prepare their military while they carried diplomatic negotiations for peaceful solutions to the problem. These militaristic approaches threatened other countries, such as Germany.

I blame those fangled alliances which sparked a chain reaction.

by **Gim** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:53 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:
Gim wrote:
Could be.

I blame those fangled alliances which sparked a chain reaction.

Yeah, I mean, honestly, it is difficult to blame a single nation for this global chaos. Probably most of Europe are responsible for this.

by **Outer Sparta** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:55 pm

Gim wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:I blame those fangled alliances which sparked a chain reaction.

Yeah, I mean, honestly, it is difficult to blame a single nation for this global chaos. Probably most of Europe are responsible for this.

So Europe was made by the Triple Entente and the Triple Alliance. The seeds of war were planted when they were created.

by **Napkiraly** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:56 pm

Germany deserves the most blame, but really they had all built themselves into a massive powder keg.

by **Napkiraly** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:57 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:
Gim wrote:
Yeah, I mean, honestly, it is difficult to blame a single nation for this global chaos. Probably most of Europe are responsible for this.

So Europe was made by the Triple Entente and the Triple Alliance. The seeds of war were planted when they were created.

The seeds started to be planted after the Franco-Prussian War.

by **The Salvatagard Republic** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:02 pm

The Salvatagard Republic wrote:
The Conez Imperium wrote:I've never seen this thread before, in my time on Nationstates and since it's the 100th year anniversary lets do this then, who is to blame for the start of WW1?

On the surface everyone would say Germany because they invaded Belgium. But what about other countries? Russia could be blamed for their partial moblisation fueling an European mobilisation, Austria-Hungary could also be blamed for their impossible ultimatum to Serbia knowing full well Serbia would not accept. Perhaps one cannot blame nations but people or ideas: Nationalism, Imperialism, Kaiser Wilhelm II, Conrad von Hötzendorf could all be blamed for the start of WW1. Listed below is but a very brief summary for the popular causes for the war

Nations

Germany
-Starting the naval arms race between Britain, antagonising Britain
-Schlieffen plan forced Germany to go to war against France if she wanted to go to war against Russia.
-Infamous blank check to Austria-Hungary
-When Serbia accepted the ultimatum, Wilhelm responded by advocating for an occupation of their capital Belgrade because the Serbians can't be trusted
-Fischer Thesis: Essentially Germany dreamed of becoming a large colonial power thus by 1911 accepted the risk for war and started to prepare for expansion

Austria-Hungary
-They know that the ultimatum was impossible to accept, thus giving Austria-Hungary the excuse to wage war also bringing in Russia
-Conrad, the greatest advocator for a war against Serbia

Russia
-Partial moblisation starting an European mobilisation
-Franco-Russian alliance (1892) forced France to join a Russian war.
-Russian wishes of united slavic people, aligning themselves with Serbia

France
-Gave a 'blank cheque' to Russia, making no attempt to restrain Russia

Britain
-Policy of splendid isolation, Britain could have stopped the war during the July crisis if she was more decisive and authoritarian

Themes

Nationalism
-Russian wishes of united slavic people, aligning themselves with Serbia

Imperialism
-The Russian quest for a hot water port
-Germany's imperialist dreams of a "place in the sun" causing tension in Africa with Britain.
-Germany's ambition for "Mittelafrika"

Alliance System
-The Triple Alliance between Germany, Austria-Hungary and Italy and the Triple Entente between France, Russia and Britain with various other alliances and allegiances.

Militarism
-From Edward Gray 1909 in reference to the Naval race "[Germany navy is a question of] our independence, our very existence would be at stake"
-From Edward Gray's memoirs '[Militarism] Great armaments lead inevitably to war"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_ ... of_Austria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie,_D ... _Hohenberg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_ ... of_Austria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Joseph_I_of_Austria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_ ... of_Austria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_I ... an_Emperor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_I ... an_Emperor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_I ... an_Emperor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold,_Duke_of_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_V ... f_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_ ... f_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_I ... f_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_I ... f_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_I ... f_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine,_Duke_of_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9 ... f_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick ... %C3%A9mont
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine,_ ... %C3%A9mont
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick ... %C3%A9mont
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_I,_Duke_of_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph,_Duke_of_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick ... f_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukes_of_ ... amily_tree

Most are Franz's ancestors and uncle

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Who is to blame for the start of WW1?

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