Who is to blame for the start of WW1?

[Saskisdi]

"Bow before the dear leader, or face the great Pulgasari!"

But back to WWI, I am going to blame the Chinese for inventing gunpowder.

I blame the Romans for introducing warfare into Europe.

I blame the Primordial Soup for making humanity.

[Canton Empire]

Everyone holds the blame

[Old Tyrannia]

"Bow before the dear leader, or face the great Pulgasari!"

But back to WWI, I am going to blame the Chinese for inventing gunpowder.

I blame the Romans for introducing warfare into Europe.

I'm sure there was warfare in Europe before the Romans.

[Napkiraly]

"Bow before the dear leader, or face the great Pulgasari!"

But back to WWI, I am going to blame the Chinese for inventing gunpowder.

I blame the Romans for introducing warfare into Europe.

Not sure if serious...

[Gauthier]

For a second there I saw "Who is to blame for the start of WWE?"

Gavrilo Princep, duh.

[TestIsland]

The United Nations Security Council. They didn't even try to talk things over, like they pretend to do these days.

Also, the World Assembly Security Council. A strongly-worded condemnation at the right time would definitely have prevented war.

[Aelex]

The United Nations Security Council. They didn't even try to talk things over, like they pretend to do these days.

Also, the World Assembly Security Council. A strongly-worded condemnation at the right time would definitely have prevented war.

Except neither of them existed at that time.

[TestIsland]

The United Nations Security Council. They didn't even try to talk things over, like they pretend to do these days.

Also, the World Assembly Security Council. A strongly-worded condemnation at the right time would definitely have prevented war.

Except neither of them existed at that time.

Non-existence is another failure on their part.

[Aelex]

Non-existence is another failure on their part.

[Old Tyrannia]

The United Nations Security Council. They didn't even try to talk things over, like they pretend to do these days.

Also, the World Assembly Security Council. A strongly-worded condemnation at the right time would definitely have prevented war.

Except neither of them existed at that time.

[Gim]

I blame the Romans for introducing warfare into Europe.

Not sure if serious...

It's obvious. The answer is Germany.

Why would I be serious about blaming the Romans for WWI?

[Galloism]

That's not how things work, I'm afraid. If North Korea rains missiles across the DMZ and South Korea declares war, South Korea would not, by any means, be consider the instigator and therefore responsible for the second Korean War.

In that case no because North Korea de facto invaded/violated the territorial integrity of South Korea, so as a state North Korea started the war first

in this case however, no states entered another country prior to a declaration, so the declaration is what starts the war

Here's how I do it.

Step 1: Has a state actor actively deployed a military force in an aggressive manner over the border of another country? If yes, then that country is responsible, if not, then you move to step 2

Step 2: Has a state actor declared war, the first country doing so is responsible

Also, for Step 1 it must be aggression/intrusion over one of the actual belligerents in the war. So in an alternative situation, if Germany had invaded Iceland and then the UK declared war, the UK and not Germany would be responsible for that war (no matter what justifications the UK might think it has)

In this situation though, the facts are straightforward. First declaration of war was by Austria-Hungary, there was no prior invasion/aggression by a state actor into a belligerent in the war.

Which means that we can invite foreign leaders over to our country, kill them while they're here, and if their country declares war, it's THEIR fault.

It's a foolproof plan. We should have done that with Saddam. We could have just invited him over to a diplomatic conference and stabbed him while he was here.

[Old Tyrannia]

It's obvious. The answer is Germany.

Hardly. While Germany was far from innocent, it's not "obvious" by any means that they are to blame; they're not even the most culpable party. I'd argue that both Austria-Hungary and Serbia bear more of the blame for the war than the German Empire.

[Conserative Morality]

Hardly. While Germany was far from innocent, it's not "obvious" by any means that they are to blame; they're not even the most culpable party. I'd argue that both Austria-Hungary and Serbia bear more of the blame for the war than the German Empire.

I like to point fingers at France too, personally.

[Old Tyrannia]

Hardly. While Germany was far from innocent, it's not "obvious" by any means that they are to blame; they're not even the most culpable party. I'd argue that both Austria-Hungary and Serbia bear more of the blame for the war than the German Empire.

I like to point fingers at France too, personally.

France definitely played a role in building up tensions that eventually led to the war, and of all the Entente powers was probably the one most in favour of war. I don't really know how much of a role they played in the immediate build-up to the war, however.

[Incredible Bums]

Which means that we can invite foreign leaders over to our country, kill them while they're here, and if their country declares war, it's THEIR fault.

You`d better get yout historical facts right; Sarajevo was part of the Habsburgian empire (Austria-Hungary), not of the Serbian Kingdom.

[Galloism]

Which means that we can invite foreign leaders over to our country, kill them while they're here, and if their country declares war, it's THEIR fault.

You`d better get yout historical facts right; Sarajevo was part of the Habsburgian empire (Austria-Hungary), not of the Serbian Kingdom.

I was actually merely pointing out that Infected Mushroom's descriptive flowchart was bullshit - I wasn't talking about the particular incident.

[Old Tyrannia]

Which means that we can invite foreign leaders over to our country, kill them while they're here, and if their country declares war, it's THEIR fault.

You`d better get yout historical facts right; Sarajevo was part of the Habsburgian empire (Austria-Hungary), not of the Serbian Kingdom.

I think Galloism's point was more that under IM's logic, one country could do any number of outrageous things, up to and including murdering another country's leaders, and it would still be the fault of the second country if it went to war in response, since IM argued that the fault always lies with the party that deploys its military along the other party's borders or declares war first. Galloism wasn't drawing a direct comparison between the two scenarios or saying that was what actually happened prior to the First World War.

[The Democratic Nation of Unovia]

Germany was at fault for both the start and the end of WWI.
They antagonized the Allied powers for years before the war even began. Then, when the war started, they antagonized the United States through the use of the Zimmermann Telegram. As a result, the United States got involved (where they probably would not have otherwise). The Allies won the war because the United States got involved, therefore because of Germany.
Germany may not have deserved the hyperinflation, but they did deserve the blame for the war.

[Aelex]

I like to point fingers at France too, personally.

Well, I would say that even if France was pretty vocal about it's hate of Germany, the "victory" of the Républicain over the last Monarchists and Reactionnary, which could be dated to either the rehabilitation of Dreyfus or the Separation of the Church and the State, finished off Revanchism as an argument of campaign to make it become just another political promise; killing out most of the agressiveness toward the Allemands.

Now, that was before Agadir, which was the incident which really launched the Arm Race in Europe, because this German provocation basically made this argument rise from the deep where it had sunk and fired up the fear and hartred of the "boches" to a point it didn't have reached since the 70' (of the 19th century).

[Aelex]

Germany was at fault for both the start and the end of WWI.
They antagonized the Allied powers for years before the war even began. Then, when the war started, they antagonized the United States through the use of the Zimmermann Telegram. As a result, the United States got involved (where they probably would not have otherwise). The Allies won the war because the United States got involved, therefore because of Germany.
Germany may not have deserved the hyperinflation, but they did deserve the blame for the war.

The U.S, however, don't deserve the place you gave them as their arrival had little to no other effect than to boost the moral of the soldiers.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Germany was at fault for both the start and the end of WWI.
They antagonized the Allied powers for years before the war even began. Then, when the war started, they antagonized the United States through the use of the Zimmermann Telegram. As a result, the United States got involved (where they probably would not have otherwise). The Allies won the war because the United States got involved, therefore because of Germany.
Germany may not have deserved the hyperinflation, but they did deserve the blame for the war.

The U.S, however, don't deserve the place you gave them as their arrival had little to no other effect than to boost the moral of the soldiers.

I think you doubt how important morale was. The French were straight up done with that war. I highly doubt it would've ended the same way.

[Aelex]

I think you doubt how important morale was. The French were straight up done with that war. I highly doubt it would've ended the same way.

Well, just blame the dumb ass-holes who pretended to be our military leader (gallieni excepted, this man was a freaking hero! ) and who were stupid enough to refuse to change the tricolor red-white-blue uniform even thought they were warned by countless expert and that just because they thought that "It would be better for the moral of the soldiers to bear the colours of the flag". The stupidity of our Generals was astonishing to the point that Clémenceau was indeed right when said that "La Guerre est une affaire trop importante pour la confier à des militaires" (War is a too important matter to entrust it to military men).

[Internationalist Bastard]

I think you doubt how important morale was. The French were straight up done with that war. I highly doubt it would've ended the same way.

Well, just blame the dumb ass-holes who pretended to be our military leader (gallieni excepted, this man was a freaking hero! ) and who were stupid enough to refuse to change the tricolor red-white-blue uniform even thought they were warned by countless expert and that just because they thought that "It would be better for the moral of the soldiers to bear the colours of the flag". The stupidity of our Generals was astonishing to the point that Clémenceau was indeed right when said that "La Guerre est une affaire trop importante pour la confier à des militaires" (War is a too important matter to entrust it to military men).

I'm no way discounting the ability of the French, fuck, they're the best troops I've ever seen. But they still were unwilling to fight. You can't win without fighting. Of course, with the casualties they took, I don't blame them.

[Jochistan]

No one nation held all or even most of the blame. It was mostly the clusterfuck of alliances and nationalist zeal. Yes the Germans were preparing for the taking of territory and the Austro Hungarians were fucking with their people.

But the Serbians were raising shit too. The Russians were preparing for territory wars as well. Britain and France weren't shy to let everyone know they would pounce at the slightest provocation.

Both sides had many things seriously wrong with them.