Who is to blame for the start of WW1?

[Infected Mushroom]

the first country to declare war is at fault

therefore, its clear that its Austria-Hungary's fault, they started the war

[Aelex]

the first country to declare war is at fault

therefore, its clear that its Austria-Hungary's fault, they started the war

...

If you're really gonna be a lawyer or judge in Canada, then your country's legal system is honestly doomed.

[Infected Mushroom]

the first country to declare war is at fault

therefore, its clear that its Austria-Hungary's fault, they started the war

...

If you're really gonna be a lawyer or judge in Canada, then your country's legal system is honestly doomed.

no declaration of war = no war

unless you just start invading

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Napoleon III is the blame for his initial usurpation and his general incompetence, leading to a fiasco in Mexico, Italy, Prussia.

[Infected Mushroom]

Napoleon III is the blame for his initial usurpation and his general incompetence, leading to a fiasco in Mexico, Italy, Prussia.

No, he didn't make the first declaration of war. Hence he was not the active cause.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Napoleon III is the blame for his initial usurpation and his general incompetence, leading to a fiasco in Mexico, Italy, Prussia.

No, he didn't make the first declaration of war. Hence he was not the active cause.

He was the one that unwisely went to war with Germany.

[Infected Mushroom]

No, he didn't make the first declaration of war. Hence he was not the active cause.

He was the one that unwisely went to war with Germany.

but he isn't the cause since he didn't make the first declaration of war, that was Austria-Hungary

[Trotskylvania]

Napoleon III is the blame for his initial usurpation and his general incompetence, leading to a fiasco in Mexico, Italy, Prussia.

No, he didn't make the first declaration of war. Hence he was not the active cause.

Austria-Hungary argued they had casus belli against Serbia. It is not a simple matter of who declared war first. As far as they were concerned, Black Hand was an appendage of the Serbian government.

[Infected Mushroom]

No, he didn't make the first declaration of war. Hence he was not the active cause.

Austria-Hungary argued they had casus belli against Serbia. It is not a simple matter of who declared war first. As far as they were concerned, Black Hand was an appendage of the Serbian government.

yeah but until the moment Austria-Hungary declared, war, there was no war

hence, they are responsible for starting it (their intentions and motivations are irelevant)

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Austria-Hungary argued they had casus belli against Serbia. It is not a simple matter of who declared war first. As far as they were concerned, Black Hand was an appendage of the Serbian government.

yeah but until the moment Austria-Hungary declared, war, there was no war

hence, they are responsible for starting it (their intentions and motivations are irelevant)

That's not how things work, I'm afraid. If North Korea rains missiles across the DMZ and South Korea declares war, South Korea would not, by any means, be consider the instigator and therefore responsible for the second Korean War.

[The Military Department of Freedonia]

the first country to declare war is at fault

therefore, its clear that its Austria-Hungary's fault, they started the war

This is an arguable point, but look at why they started war. Serbia would not hand over members of the terrorist group that assassinated Franz Ferdinand, so Austria-Hungary took action. Then the alliances that had been formed kicked in and the continent of Europe was embroiled in conflict.

Not to you Infected Mushroom, but to all who spread this bull****, nationalism was not at fault for what occured. People are always to blame for their own actions, not ideals or inanimate objects. Nationalism is the reason many young men signed up to fight for their respective countries, not the reason nations declared war. They declared war because of mutual defense agreements that were in place. This does not mean that alliances are bad either, but it means that prudence must be exercised. There is no set formula that justifies going to war, as the specific circumstances must always be taken into account (In other words, it depends.). Back to the point, saying patriotism/nationalism is a bad thing is ridiculous, as people, at least in the U.S. where I am, need to be patriotic and love their nation and its virtues.

The funny thing is that many years before WWI, Otto von Bismarck, the great German statesman, predicted that the next major European war would be over some small matter in the Balkans.

[Aelex]

no declaration of war = no war

unless you just start invading

Yeaaaaaaaaah... Because trying to actually consider the circumstances which had lead to the said declaration of war is something only fools and weakling would do, hum?

[Infected Mushroom]

yeah but until the moment Austria-Hungary declared, war, there was no war

hence, they are responsible for starting it (their intentions and motivations are irelevant)

That's not how things work, I'm afraid. If North Korea rains missiles across the DMZ and South Korea declares war, South Korea would not, by any means, be consider the instigator and therefore responsible for the second Korean War.

In that case no because North Korea de facto invaded/violated the territorial integrity of South Korea, so as a state North Korea started the war first

in this case however, no states entered another country prior to a declaration, so the declaration is what starts the war

Here's how I do it.

Step 1: Has a state actor actively deployed a military force in an aggressive manner over the border of another country? If yes, then that country is responsible, if not, then you move to step 2

Step 2: Has a state actor declared war, the first country doing so is responsible

Also, for Step 1 it must be aggression/intrusion over one of the actual belligerents in the war. So in an alternative situation, if Germany had invaded Iceland and then the UK declared war, the UK and not Germany would be responsible for that war (no matter what justifications the UK might think it has)

In this situation though, the facts are straightforward. First declaration of war was by Austria-Hungary, there was no prior invasion/aggression by a state actor into a belligerent in the war.

[Infected Mushroom]

no declaration of war = no war

unless you just start invading

Yeaaaaaaaaah... Because trying to actually consider the circumstances which had lead to the said declaration of war is something only fools and weakling would do, hum?

No. It may be a worthwhile thing to do. But it has nothing to do with who is responsible for the start of the war.

The nation responsible is the first to invade/declare war. Anything else is just strategic calculation.

Starting a war might be morally justified or it might not, but thats a separate discussion. This is about who started the war; we shouldn't care about who is morally to blame. Its not about moral blameworthiness, its about finding the starting actor.

[Infected Mushroom]

the first country to declare war is at fault

therefore, its clear that its Austria-Hungary's fault, they started the war

This is an arguable point, but look at why they started war. Serbia would not hand over members of the terrorist group that assassinated Franz Ferdinand, so Austria-Hungary took action. Then the alliances that had been formed kicked in and the continent of Europe was embroiled in conflict.

The immediate cause of the war though was not Serbia's actions, it was Austria-Hungary's. Austria may have been provoked, but unless that provocation was in itself in the form of a declaration of war or an invasion/intrusion by the other state's army, the fault lies with Austria for starting the war.

It is Austria's actions that brought the war into being. Until Austria made that final decision to declare war, the war was not a certainty. The But For element is with Austria.

[Aelex]

No. It may be a worthwhile thing to do. But it has nothing to do with who is responsible for the start of the war.

The nation responsible is the first to invade/declare war. Anything else is just strategic calculation.

Starting a war might be morally justified or it might not, but thats a separate discussion. This is about who started the war; we shouldn't care about who is morally to blame. Its not about moral blameworthiness, its about finding the starting actor.

Yet you don't seem to understand that the guy pulling the trigger isn't always the responsable because he is sometimes actually worth less than the tool he used.

If you ain't able understand something so simple yet still wanna take a job which will require you to analyse much more complex situation, than shit really gonna happen.

[PLESSUR]

Germany. Only they realised that Austrian action against Serbia would result in war across Europe. Nevertheless, the chancellor (whose name I can't recall) allowed Austria to go for it, simply on the basis that 'if there's war, better now than later' (when France and Russia would be better armed).

[Grunberg-Ludbach]

It's far too easy to point fingers at one nation or person. This may sound like a history class cliche, but WW1 broke out as a result of a culmination of factors. Europe had been militarizing for decades, and tensions between certain nations were at a breaking point. All it took was one tiny trigger to set the metaphorical "time bomb" off.

[PLESSUR]

It's far too easy to point fingers at one nation or person. This may sound like a history class cliche, but WW1 broke out as a result of a culmination of factors. Europe had been militarizing for decades, and tensions between certain nations were at a breaking point. All it took was one tiny trigger to set the metaphorical "time bomb" off.

For sure - but who was responsible for the pull of that tiny trigger?

[Vektra]

All of them are responsibles of WWI.

[Infected Mushroom]

No. It may be a worthwhile thing to do. But it has nothing to do with who is responsible for the start of the war.

The nation responsible is the first to invade/declare war. Anything else is just strategic calculation.

Starting a war might be morally justified or it might not, but thats a separate discussion. This is about who started the war; we shouldn't care about who is morally to blame. Its not about moral blameworthiness, its about finding the starting actor.

Yet you don't seem to understand that the guy pulling the trigger isn't always the responsable because he is sometimes actually worth less than the tool he used.

If you ain't able understand something so simple yet still wanna take a job which will require you to analyse much more complex situation, than shit really gonna happen.

Austria-Hungary declared war, its takes a declaration (or an invasion/intrusion) by a state actor to start a war... therefore, the blame lies with Austria-Hungary.

I think a lot of people are over-complicating this.

Whether or not Austria-Hungary has moral culpability is a different question. In terms of the form though, there's no question the legal blame lies with Austria.

[Infected Mushroom]

All of them are responsibles of WWI.

but it started, strictly speaking, with Austria-Hungary's declaration

[Aelex]

Austria-Hungary declared war, its takes a declaration (or an invasion/intrusion) by a state actor to start a war... therefore, the blame lies with Austria-Hungary.

I think a lot of people are over-complicating this.

Whether or not Austria-Hungary has moral culpability is a different question. In terms of the form though, there's no question the legal blame lies with Austria.

Why did Austria-Hungary attacked? Because they knew that the German would support them.
Why so? Because of complex alliances.
Why they existed? Because Bismarck tried to cockblock France and it backfired on him.
Why did he tried to do so? Because he knew that stealing Alsace-Lorraine would provoke an unreconiciliable inimity between the two nations.
And that's how you manage to trace back WW1 to it's real roots. Bismarck's stupid policy.
So, from the root of the conflict to it's evolution, in definitive, the real responsible of WW1 is in fact mostly Allemagne and no one else.

[Pandeeria]

All of them are responsibles of WWI.

The United States surely isn't responsible for WW1.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

Russia. Its Russia's fault.