Who is to blame for the start of WW1?

[Harkback Union]

Pretty much everyone (in power) in europe wanted to go to war in 1914 and pretty much everyone thought they're gonna kick some ass and be home by Xmas.

I wish they would have just sat down at a computer and played a game of Victoria 2...
...
Hold on...
What if...
No, it cannot be...
Oh my god! Paradox caused world war one! They built a time machine and sparked conflicts throughout human history so they could make extremely addictive grand strategy games about them! The Swedish Bastards! It all makes sense now, No wonder sweden is always kep out of harm's way!
How come I'm the first to figure this out?!?

You're not, you're just the latest in a long line.

They're coming to get you!

Strange, a dozen black cars just parked outside... Wait, what's that noise?

Oh S@#t! I'm outta he,

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34

I'm fine. Paradox is best developer.
Hearts of Iron IV will be released on December 6th, 2015.
Please carry on.

[L Ron Cupboard]

I would go for a 'what' rather than a 'who' - the institution of monarchy.

[Old Tyrannia]

I would go for a 'what' rather than a 'who' - the institution of monarchy.

That's absolute bullshit. The country in Europe that was most favourable to war was the one non-monarchical great power, the French Republic. Every monarch in Europe was against the idea of going to war. Blame nationalism, blame imperialism- both had an important role in leading to the war. Blame poor communication, poorer decisions and hubris. But don't blame monarchy, because there is absolutely no logical argument as to how monarchism caused the war. You're just ideologically blinkered.

[The Archregimancy]

I blame Belgium. If those uppity southerners never had revolted then there would be no treaty of London. No treaty of London means no UK using that scrap of paper as an excuse.

I blame the Sumerians and Egyptians for inventing writing.

If we hadn't invented writing, we wouldn't have been able to write treaties, and couldn't have used that 'scrap of paper' as an excuse.

[Vylenograd]

The only person to blame is Gavrilo Princip.
Nationalism is not to blame.
Germany is not to blame.
Austria is not to blame.

It is one man, not an idea or a nation.

[Old Tyrannia]

The only person to blame is Gavrilo Princip.
Nationalism is not to blame.
Germany is not to blame.
Austria is not to blame.

It is one man, not an idea or a nation.

As I pointed out earlier in the thread, there were many opportunities both prior to and after Gavrilo Princip assassinated Franz Ferdinand where the war could have been averted. It was the spark that lit the fuse, certainly; but someone had already stacked up the gunpowder, and no one thought to pour water on the flame.

[L Ron Cupboard]

I would go for a 'what' rather than a 'who' - the institution of monarchy.

That's absolute bullshit. The country in Europe that was most favourable to war was the one non-monarchical great power, the French Republic. Every monarch in Europe was against the idea of going to war. Blame nationalism, blame imperialism- both had an important role in leading to the war. Blame poor communication, poorer decisions and hubris. But don't blame monarchy, because there is absolutely no logical argument as to how monarchism caused the war. You're just ideologically blinkered.

So the French started WWI? I don't think so. You seem to be ignoring the role of the Austro-Hungarian Emperor, the Russia Tsar, the German Kaiser...

[Old Tyrannia]

That's absolute bullshit. The country in Europe that was most favourable to war was the one non-monarchical great power, the French Republic. Every monarch in Europe was against the idea of going to war. Blame nationalism, blame imperialism- both had an important role in leading to the war. Blame poor communication, poorer decisions and hubris. But don't blame monarchy, because there is absolutely no logical argument as to how monarchism caused the war. You're just ideologically blinkered.

So the French started WWI? I don't think so. You seem to be ignoring the role of the Austro-Hungarian Emperor, the Russia Tsar, the German Kaiser...

I never said that the French started the war, but they were certainly not innocent. The French had been preparing for another war against Germany since the Franco-Prussian War, with the goal of retaking Alsace-Lorraine. They played just as big a role as anyone else in the creation of the pre-war alliance system that led to the escalation of the conflict. Emperor Franz Josef himself was opposed to the war, but felt obliged to comply with the wishes of his ministers. Wilhelm II advised the Austrian government to accept Serbia's initial counterproposal, but his message was delayed by the German military who favoured war; he also sought assurances from the Tsar and King George V that they would not go to war with Germany. The Russian government certainly acted rashly with its mobilisation, but the Tsar was only acting in response to what he saw as unwarranted Austrian aggression towards Serbia, which was a Russian ally. In all three cases, there is no reason to believe that a republican leader would act in a different manner.

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

Archduke Franz Ferdinand's driver. If he had kept up with the itinerary, no World War 1.

"Damnit Hanz, you made a wrong turn!"
"Relax, it's not like you'll die"

Still it's impressive that Franz managed to backhand slap a grenade that was thrown at them, but get shot. Of course that grenade hurt the people Franz knocked it towards (to make up for it they visited the hospital).

[Ifreann]

I blame Belgium. If those uppity southerners never had revolted then there would be no treaty of London. No treaty of London means no UK using that scrap of paper as an excuse.

Belgium does not exist.

[Neo Philippine Empire]

Considering different factors like Nationalism/Militarism/Alliances/Imperialism.

I think the one to blame for this is Gavrilo Princip and further diplomacy after the event.

[The Alexanderians]

I blame Belgium. If those uppity southerners never had revolted then there would be no treaty of London. No treaty of London means no UK using that scrap of paper as an excuse.

I blame the Sumerians and Egyptians for inventing writing.

If we hadn't invented writing, we wouldn't have been able to write treaties, and couldn't have used that 'scrap of paper' as an excuse.

This whole thread has a feel of "We Didn't Start The Fire"

[Kilobugya]

Capitalism. Capitalism is unstable and need wars every now and then to burn the accumulated surplus that is danpering profit rates. The current "endless crisis" situation we are in is due to impossibility to make a world war with modern weapons (it would be the end of civilisation), and capitalism still didn't find any other way out of crisis.

To end wars and have economical stability and prosperity for all (not just for a minority), we need to leave capitalism and embrace socialism.

[Uxupox]

Capitalism. Capitalism is unstable and need wars every now and then to burn the accumulated surplus that is danpering profit rates. The current "endless crisis" situation we are in is due to impossibility to make a world war with modern weapons (it would be the end of civilisation), and capitalism still didn't find any other way out of crisis.

To end wars and have economical stability and prosperity for all (not just for a minority), we need to leave capitalism and embrace socialism.

Really? An economic system was to blame for the Great war? No nationalism? No formal response to the assassination of the heir of a Great power? No activation of alliances in response to the declaration of war against the Serbians by the Austrians? I can go on for a while formulating all these questions.

[Old Tyrannia]

Capitalism. Capitalism is unstable and need wars every now and then to burn the accumulated surplus that is danpering profit rates. The current "endless crisis" situation we are in is due to impossibility to make a world war with modern weapons (it would be the end of civilisation), and capitalism still didn't find any other way out of crisis.

To end wars and have economical stability and prosperity for all (not just for a minority), we need to leave capitalism and embrace socialism.

Really? An economic system was to blame for the Great war? No nationalism? No formal response to the assassination of the heir of a Great power? No activation of alliances in response to the declaration of war against the Serbians by the Austrians? I can go on for a while formulating all these questions.

Of course. Capitalism is the cause of all the evil in the world. The Great War? Capitalism. 9/11? Capitalism. The Holocaust? Capitalism. The Black Death? Capitalism. The K-T extinction event? Capitalism.

[Sun Wukong]

I blame the Sumerians and Egyptians for inventing writing.

If we hadn't invented writing, we wouldn't have been able to write treaties, and couldn't have used that 'scrap of paper' as an excuse.

This whole thread has a feel of "We Didn't Start The Fire"

If only Ug had not quested for fire...

[Hoyteca]

I blame the alliances. Without them, the war would have been local. Germany, France, Russia, the Ottomans, and Great Britain would have had little reason to get involved. Instead, a system of contracts and pinky-swears dragged Europe's great powers into a devastating wars.

The main reasons Germany was blamed are:
1. Germany lost
2. The victors never liked Germany to begin with
3. The victors wanted somebody to pay for the damages
4. Who better to pay for the damages than the guys who "started" it

[Protector Galactics]

I blame the Russians for rising tensions in the war. I mostly sympathize the Germans and I blame the Austro-Hungarians for getting Germany involved.

[Al-Orthodoxia]

Putting the blame on one nation or cause is missing the whole part of the conflict. It's a all reasons combined that made the First World War, any removal of any reason would result in a 'different' World War I.

[Rio Cana]

If you think about it, the Imperial government of Austria-Hungary could be the culprit. They wanted a war. In order to so call avoid war they gave Serbia a list of demands which most would consider excessive. The thing is Serbia accepted it except for one thing. Any other nation would say ok that is the end of this problem. But no, AH wanted a war no matter what.

We now need to look at the type of government AH had. AH was made up of the Kingdom of Austria with its own PM and legislature. The Kingdom of Austria with its own PM and legislature. Then there was the Imperial government which included the PM's of Austria and Hungry, with the Emperor on top. The problem was that the real power and money were in the two Kingdoms and not so much in the Imperial government.

So we have a weak Imperial government being slapped by Serbian. If they react weak against the Serbian s then you know they will lose face and power when it comes to the two Kingdoms of Austria and Hungary. So the Imperial AH government decided having a war would was the best solution to there problem of not seeming weak. Thus they made those incredible excessive demands against Serbia. They knew they would most likely not accept all or part of the demands. So if the war had been AH vs. Serbia, AH. would have most likely win. But Europe being full of Mutual defense treaties served to drag AH down big time. A weak Imperial government trying to wage what would become a major world war equals you are going to lose big time. So you could say they outsmarted themselves.

[Al-Orthodoxia]

If you think about it, the Imperial government of Austria-Hungary could be the culprit. They wanted a war. In order to so call avoid war they gave Serbia a list of demands which most would consider excessive. The thing is Serbia accepted it except for one thing. Any other nation would say ok that is the end of this problem. But no, AH wanted a war no matter what.

We now need to look at the type of government AH had. AH was made up of the Kingdom of Austria with its own PM and legislature. The Kingdom of Austria with its own PM and legislature. Then there was the Imperial government which included the PM's of Austria and Hungry, with the Emperor on top. The problem was that the real power and money were in the two Kingdoms and not so much in the Imperial government.

So we have a weak Imperial government being slapped by Serbian. If they react weak against the Serbian s then you know they will lose face and power when it comes to the two Kingdoms of Austria and Hungary. So the Imperial AH government decided a war was best thus made those incredible demands against Serbia. They knew they would most likely not accept all or part of the demands. So if the war had been AH vs. Serbia, AH. would have most likely win. But Europe being full of Mutual defense treaties severed to drag AH down big time. A weak Imperial government trying to wage what would become a major world war equals you are going to lose big time. So you could say they outsmarted themselves.

Or the Imperial Power wouldn't collapse, it's a sole suggestion.

[Napkiraly]

I blame the Russians for rising tensions in the war. I mostly sympathize the Germans and I blame the Austro-Hungarians for getting Germany involved.

So we'll ignore how German diplomats kept egging the Austro-Hungarians on and were rather gleeful to have a war so long as the UK was out of the picture. It wasn't until the UK stated that they'd side with France and Russia that Germany began to scramble to avoid war but by then it was too late.

The German government wasn't interested in peace until they realised the cluster fuck they had brewed.

I mean shit, the Russians offered numerous avenues for peace and told the Serbs to accept the ultimatum.

[The Salvatagard Republic]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_ ... of_Austria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie,_D ... _Hohenberg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_ ... of_Austria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Joseph_I_of_Austria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_ ... of_Austria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_I ... an_Emperor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_I ... an_Emperor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_I ... an_Emperor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold,_Duke_of_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_V ... f_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_ ... f_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_I ... f_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_I ... f_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_I ... f_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine,_Duke_of_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9 ... f_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick ... %C3%A9mont
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine,_ ... %C3%A9mont
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick ... %C3%A9mont
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_I,_Duke_of_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph,_Duke_of_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick ... f_Lorraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukes_of_ ... amily_tree

Most are Franz's ancestors and uncle

hello?

HELLO? stop skipping me!

[The Socialist Siverian State]

hello?

HELLO? stop skipping me!

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!

[Rusozak]

To quote a buddy from my AP Euro class back in High School, "Damn Habsburgs!"