Trotsky: Yay or nay?

[Old Tyrannia]

If I had to pick one Russian revolutionary, he'd be the one.

Still a better love story than Twilight.

[Chestaan]

Just checking, but isn't Marxist-Leninist just another word for Stalinist?

[High Republic of Portugal]

Despite being anti-commie I'll jump into this.

Trotsky was Lenin's chosen heir. While I might agree USSR wouldn't be as ruthless under him as it was under Stalin, I think the Soviets would be equally fearless.

Let's not forget, Trotsky led the Red Army to victory in the civil war. USSR would still be strong and communist but not as isolationist and therefore more vulnerable to good relations with the west and democratic influence.

[Finland SSR]

While I might agree USSR wouldn't be as ruthless under him as it was under Stalin,

...

Actually, both Lenin and Trotsky advocated for a similar sort of repression and violence in their works as happened in the SU under Stalin. After all, how else will you make two hundred million people work in slave-like labor?

Just adding my unneeded and useless trivia that may not even be targeted to the quoted person.

[Wolfmanne2]

Just checking, but isn't Marxist-Leninist just another word for Stalinist?

Considering I'm as anticommunist as your average Social Democrats, USA member (and strangely more so ever since I moved to the left), I have to say they're all the same to me .

[Jute]

Just checking, but isn't Marxist-Leninist just another word for Stalinist?

Not necessarily, they can be different, as far as I know.

[The Wolven League]

Just checking, but isn't Marxist-Leninist just another word for Stalinist?

Not neccesarily, considering how Stalin was a power-hungry bastard who didn't care for human rights and was highly totalitarian, which was not a belief shared by (most) previous communists.

[Chestaan]

Just checking, but isn't Marxist-Leninist just another word for Stalinist?

Not neccesarily, considering how Stalin was a power-hungry bastard who didn't care for human rights and was highly totalitarian, which was not a belief shared by (most) previous communists.

my confusion though is arising from the fact that Stalinists generally only refer to themselves as MLs, whereas Stalinist is used in a pejorative sense. Also, what group that is non-Stalinist would refer to themselves as MLs?

[The Arab Baath Socialist Party]

World wide revolution is not resembled by the communist majority even some Stalinists didsagree with Stalin there

[The Arab Baath Socialist Party]

Just checking, but isn't Marxist-Leninist just another word for Stalinist?

Not neccesarily, considering how Stalin was a power-hungry bastard who didn't care for human rights and was highly totalitarian, which was not a belief shared by (most) previous communists.

Meanwhile mathematics show he only killed 2 million majority in famines

[The Wolven League]

Not neccesarily, considering how Stalin was a power-hungry bastard who didn't care for human rights and was highly totalitarian, which was not a belief shared by (most) previous communists.

my confusion though is arising from the fact that Stalinists generally only refer to themselves as MLs, whereas Stalinist is used in a pejorative sense. Also, what group that is non-Stalinist would refer to themselves as MLs?

Well, the term ML has sort of evolved into being similar to Stalinism, but it is really the only way to combine Leninism and Marxism without saying "A mix of Marxism and Leninism" or something. So yeah, that leads to a good deal of confusion.

[The Wolven League]

Not neccesarily, considering how Stalin was a power-hungry bastard who didn't care for human rights and was highly totalitarian, which was not a belief shared by (most) previous communists.

Meanwhile mathematics show he only killed 2 million majority in famines

Only.

In planned famines, mind you.

[The Arab Baath Socialist Party]

my confusion though is arising from the fact that Stalinists generally only refer to themselves as MLs, whereas Stalinist is used in a pejorative sense. Also, what group that is non-Stalinist would refer to themselves as MLs?

Well, the term ML has sort of evolved into being similar to Stalinism, but it is really the only way to combine Leninism and Marxism without saying "A mix of Marxism and Leninism" or something. So yeah, that leads to a good deal of confusion.

Stalin invented the term ...

[Wolfmanne2]

Not neccesarily, considering how Stalin was a power-hungry bastard who didn't care for human rights and was highly totalitarian, which was not a belief shared by (most) previous communists.

Meanwhile mathematics show he only killed 2 million majority in famines

As far as I know, despite being a rabid brainwashed free market prophet, Thatcher didn't kill 2 million people in the miner's strike. Why do Stalinists get the right to murder people?

[The Wolven League]

Well, the term ML has sort of evolved into being similar to Stalinism, but it is really the only way to combine Leninism and Marxism without saying "A mix of Marxism and Leninism" or something. So yeah, that leads to a good deal of confusion.

Stalin invented the term ...

Aye, I'm aware. I'm just discussing what some other definitions of the term would be.

And Stalin calling himself Marxist-Leninist was always laughable to me.

[The Arab Baath Socialist Party]

Meanwhile mathematics show he only killed 2 million majority in famines

As far as I know, despite being a rabid brainwashed free market prophet, Thatcher didn't kill 2 million people in the miner's strike. Why do Stalinists get the right to murder people?

>.> I don't know maybe becaus of massive famine that he had almost no control over in a nation that was focusing on a world war and the Cold War scares

[Unabashed Skeptofascist]

Not neccesarily, considering how Stalin was a power-hungry bastard who didn't care for human rights and was highly totalitarian, which was not a belief shared by (most) previous communists.

Meanwhile mathematics show he only killed 2 million majority in famines

A million is just statistics amirite

[Vistulange]

If you condemn the Holocaust but if you don't believe in the Holodomor, you are a hypocrite.

Don't forget to add the Armenian Genocide. Just so we can piss of the Kemalists of course.

Wolfmanne, you don't have to be a fucking Kemalist to be pissed off at that. It's like condemning the British for what England may have done in the 18th century. Stop generalizing and using Kemalist as a pejorative term like the AKP does.

[The Arab Baath Socialist Party]

Meanwhile mathematics show he only killed 2 million majority in famines

A million is just statistics amirite

Actually it's not even proven Stalin even said that

[The Arab Baath Socialist Party]

I like like to point this out did any of you even realize Stalin fought his own personal cult?

[Wolfmanne2]

Don't forget to add the Armenian Genocide. Just so we can piss of the Kemalists of course.

Wolfmanne, you don't have to be a fucking Kemalist to be pissed off at that. It's like condemning the British for what England may have done in the 18th century. Stop generalizing and using Kemalist as a pejorative term like the AKP does.

I apologise for that then. I was caricaturing and stereotyping, things which I oppose, so from the bottom of my heart sorry about that.

[The Wolven League]

Meanwhile mathematics show he only killed 2 million majority in famines

A million is just statistics amirite

That quote is... sadly accurate. It doesn't excuse Stalin's actions at all though.

[Unabashed Skeptofascist]

A million is just statistics amirite

Actually it's not even proven Stalin even said that

True. Although it does well to represent his fawning supporters' dismissal of his crimes.

[The Arab Baath Socialist Party]

I believe in one thing only, the power of human will.
Joseph Stalin

[Daburuetchi]

Noooooooooooooooo. Trotsky was an opportunist. He declared that Lenin was a "professional exploiter of every kind of backwardness in the Russian working-class movement”, and went on to say that the “entire edifice of Leninism at the present time is built on lies and falsification and bears within itself the poisonous elements of its own decay." And then later went on to portray himself as the sole heir of Leninism.

He took up the fundamental idea of the Mensheviks that socialism was impossible to build in Russia. His theory of Permanent Revolution was essentially defeatism and contradicts Lenin's thesis that socialism=soviet power+ electrification. As Stalin pointed out "what is permanent revolution in its Trotskyist interpretation? It is revolution that fails to take the poor peasantry into account as a revolutionary force. Trotsky's "permanent" revolution is, as Lenin said, "skipping" the peasant movement, "playing at the seizure of power." Why is it dangerous? Because such a revolution, if an attempt had been made to bring it about, would inevitably have ended in failure, for it would have divorced from the Russian proletariat its ally, the poor peasantry. This explains the struggle that Leninism has been waging against Trotskyism ever since 1905." Proposing to invade every country even when they Re not ready for socialism is crazy adventurism but this is what Troskiest argue

Not only that but Trostsky railed against party unity with his August Bloc. Lenin rightly pointed out "Actually, under cover of high-sounding, empty, and obscure phrases that confuse the non-class-conscious workers, Trotsky is defending the liquidators by passing over in silence the question of the “underground”, by asserting that there is no liberal-labour policy in Russia, and the like."

The fact of the matter is Trosky was a saboteur and a wrecker. He did everything he could to undermine the dictatorship of the proletariat and grow a fitful column in the USSR. His supporters cheered on the fall of communism and every counter revolutionary uprising sch as the one in Hungary in 1956. Stalin was the faithful and fearless friend of the proletariat. Under his leadership the USSR saved humanity from fascism and expanded the dictatorship of the proletarait.