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Taxes are a form of Theft

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Infected Mushroom
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Taxes are a form of Theft

Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:21 pm

Greetings NSG,

I have just realised that in my view, the fact that the government forces you give them money on a regular basis (in the form of income tax) from income you rightfully and assiduously earn... is nothing more or less than an act of state-sanctioned theft.

In my view it can be described in no other way. The fact that we consider taxation a normal thing and a legitimate thing is simply a form of Might Makes Right. If a person wrote letters to you to try to compel you to give them a part of your property every Nth period (and if you don't they will do bad things to you like imprison you), you would rightfully and instinctively call such a person a robber. Likewise, If a band of robbers wrote a letter to you and threatened the same, you would rightfully and instinctively call such an organization an organization of robbers.

I've just made the revolutionary connection that the government is in that business too. I mean think about it. If you don't pay your taxes for long enough, the tax collectors will send their enforcers to grab you and throw you into a cell (isn't this similar to how a mafia operates?). Except they trick you into thinking its alright by making it a part of the Law. They also trick you into thinking that you've somehow legitimised this Theft because every 4 or so years you get to cast a statistically insignificant ballot that's supposedly a form of consent.

I can't believe it...

What do you think NSG? Is taxation nothing more than a form of theft by the powerful? Are we ruled by a society of elite and powerful bandits; is this what Western liberal society comes down to?

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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:23 pm

No, they're not. Taxes are rent.
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Omega America II
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Postby Omega America II » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:23 pm

I think some taxation is needed to maintain the country, but should be very low, not as high as they are now.
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The Jaclean Empire
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Postby The Jaclean Empire » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:24 pm

Let's just not take taxes and let criminals run rampant or let other nations take us over.
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Wisconsin9
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Postby Wisconsin9 » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:24 pm

Oh look, it's this again.
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NeuPolska
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Postby NeuPolska » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:25 pm

Taxes pay for your police, your roads, and depending on where you live, your education, health, and food.

It's hardly theft. It's just paying for the upkeep of things you take for granted.

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Chestaan
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Postby Chestaan » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:25 pm

I'm quite happy to let the government rob from the populace if they provide roads, street lighting and other infrastructure and public goods in return. And lots of what the government does would be illegal if a citizen did it. Prisons, for example. Should prisons be removed also?
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:26 pm

NeuPolska wrote:Taxes pay for your police, your roads, and depending on where you live, your education, health, and food.

It's hardly theft. It's just paying for the upkeep of things you take for granted.


Similar to how you pay the mafia in Grant Theft Auto for protection fees?

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The Hobbesian Metaphysician
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Postby The Hobbesian Metaphysician » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:26 pm

I take it you just read your first libertarian novel?
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Pot4toes
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Postby Pot4toes » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:26 pm

They are not a form of theft, you commie.
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:27 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
NeuPolska wrote:Taxes pay for your police, your roads, and depending on where you live, your education, health, and food.

It's hardly theft. It's just paying for the upkeep of things you take for granted.


Similar to how you pay the mafia in Grant Theft Auto for protection fees?

More like the Yakuza. You pay them protection money, but they mean it.
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The Hobbesian Metaphysician
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Postby The Hobbesian Metaphysician » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:27 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
NeuPolska wrote:Taxes pay for your police, your roads, and depending on where you live, your education, health, and food.

It's hardly theft. It's just paying for the upkeep of things you take for granted.


Similar to how you pay the mafia in Grant Theft Auto for protection fees?

It would be if the mafia actually protected you.

Instead what they do is called extortion. I mean there are certain gangs such as the Yakuza who actually do protect stores in their territory, but only against other gangs.
I am just going to lay it out here, I am going to be very blunt.

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Infected Mushroom
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:28 pm

The Hobbesian Metaphysician wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
Similar to how you pay the mafia in Grant Theft Auto for protection fees?

It would be if the mafia actually protected you.

Instead what they do is called extortion. I mean there are certain gangs such as the Yakuza who actually do protect stores in their territory, but only against other gangs.


they have no right to take your money though, if they want money, they can start their own business

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Postby Constaniana » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:28 pm

Congratulations on discovering one of the most stale memes of this forum.
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Postby NeuPolska » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:28 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
NeuPolska wrote:Taxes pay for your police, your roads, and depending on where you live, your education, health, and food.

It's hardly theft. It's just paying for the upkeep of things you take for granted.


Similar to how you pay the mafia in Grant Theft Auto for protection fees?

I've never played GTA so I couldn't tell you.

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Impaled Nazarene wrote:Hurd you miss the point more than Polska misses Poland.
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Neu California
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Postby Neu California » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:29 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
NeuPolska wrote:Taxes pay for your police, your roads, and depending on where you live, your education, health, and food.

It's hardly theft. It's just paying for the upkeep of things you take for granted.


Similar to how you pay the mafia in Grant Theft Auto for protection fees?


The Mafia in Grand Theft Auto, if I had to guess, is charging you protection fees to keep them from beating you up. That's all you're getting. It's in no way comparable to what the government gives you in return for your taxes (roads to help you go places, schools to help create educated workers, police and fire to protect you, etc.)
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Postby New Werpland » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:29 pm

Nope, cause without taxes private property really wouldn't be a thing.

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The Hobbesian Metaphysician
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Postby The Hobbesian Metaphysician » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:29 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
The Hobbesian Metaphysician wrote:It would be if the mafia actually protected you.

Instead what they do is called extortion. I mean there are certain gangs such as the Yakuza who actually do protect stores in their territory, but only against other gangs.


they have no right to take your money though, if they want money, they can start their own business

So are you arguing from an objectivist or libertarian standpoint?

Wanting to know before we continue with this discussion.
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Sun Wukong
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Postby Sun Wukong » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:29 pm

Yeah, but virtually everything you think is wrong, OP, so that proves the opposite.
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Infected Mushroom
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:30 pm

The Hobbesian Metaphysician wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
they have no right to take your money though, if they want money, they can start their own business

So are you arguing from an objectivist or libertarian standpoint?

Wanting to know before we continue with this discussion.


I'm not entirely sure what those words mean

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The Hobbesian Metaphysician
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Postby The Hobbesian Metaphysician » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:30 pm

Sun Wukong wrote:Yeah, but virtually everything you think is wrong, OP, so that proves the opposite.

It may be wrong, but damn if they cannot shove Game of Thrones references into it.
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Wisconsin9
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Postby Wisconsin9 » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:32 pm

The Hobbesian Metaphysician wrote:
Sun Wukong wrote:Yeah, but virtually everything you think is wrong, OP, so that proves the opposite.

It may be wrong, but damn if they cannot shove Game of Thrones references into it.

Hey, maybe we can argue from there. I mean, armies and spies and crowns have to be paid for somehow.
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Chestaan
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Postby Chestaan » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:32 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
The Hobbesian Metaphysician wrote:It would be if the mafia actually protected you.

Instead what they do is called extortion. I mean there are certain gangs such as the Yakuza who actually do protect stores in their territory, but only against other gangs.


they have no right to take your money though, if they want money, they can start their own business


In the capitalist system we live in it just so happens that the world is better off with taxation than without. Is it similar to theft? Sure, but it makes society better off so who cares? Basically the whole thing of arguing that any right is absolute is flawed because there are a list of exceptions to everything that we would consider a right/
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:32 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
NeuPolska wrote:Taxes pay for your police, your roads, and depending on where you live, your education, health, and food.

It's hardly theft. It's just paying for the upkeep of things you take for granted.


Similar to how you pay the mafia in Grant Theft Auto for protection fees?

Yes, actually, it's just that the state has a monopoly on force(or in certain, not used all that often systems, a duopoly, but that's a topic for another thread) which the mafia doesn't have.
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Infected Mushroom
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:32 pm

New Werpland wrote:Nope, cause without taxes private property really wouldn't be a thing.


not really

for a very very long time income taxes were non-existent or close to non-existent, and we had private property

Its entirely possible for a government that protects the people exclusively funded by money it rightfully earns through state-owned enterprises instead of having what we have now. A government that doesn't work, but waits for the people to work, and then swoops in and takes their money.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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