UK Politics Thread II: Gladstone's Revenge

[Val Halla]

He's certainly making it more interesting. I have a hope (although I know its EXTREMELY unlikely) he will save the union and campaign for us to leave the EU. More likely that his election as Labour leader will be the biggest political earthquake he causes.

Most of the party doesn't want to leave the EU, Corbyn wouldn't risk it.

Corbyn isn't stupid. (I'd hope) He wouldn't go against a core part of the party just because of his views. Like with Farron and LGBT rights.

[Alyakia]

First post Corbyn voting intention poll:

Tories 38% - Labour 32%, therefore no indication of immediate change after the Corbyn changes, but it is early days and he could make more of an impact on the polls in coming weeks. =

At my school Debating Society we're debating on whether Corbyn can win the General Election. Might debate in favour of #JezWeCan, just can't find any facts and figures in favour of him. Is there ANY reason why he can win? This isn't reassuring for me .

Sunshine.

"Economics are the method; the object is to change the heart and soul."

and what happens when the economics promote/reward greed and selfishness? yeah, someone, not naming names, pretty much deliberately fucked the country with their cohorts. now we need to compete with a biased media to try and convince people that maybe sanctions are bad and human rights are good and that maybe we should in actual fact help people. our only hope is to try and slowly fix things and maybe get someone good in while also hoping people don't just the same arseholes in for another round.

[GreatestBanks]

Well, my friend, I am that savage white american down the street in a white suburb that all your pals were talking about.

... What?

My main gripe with UKIP is the alarming rate of just... Idk, stupidity in their candidates. I mean, every party has them, but there's such a high rate of UKIP guys claiming gays cause droughts and stuff

I don't like their candidates, I like their ideas.
If you voted labour, did you vote for it because you liked their ideas or because Ed Miliband was their leader and you liked him?

[Greater-London]

Most of the party doesn't want to leave the EU, Corbyn wouldn't risk it.

I'm inclined to agree, although I think Labour is far more divided on this issue then they let on. Whilst I doubt either Labour or the Torries will campaign for 'out' I think the campaign needs prominent left wingers.

[Val Halla]

... What?

My main gripe with UKIP is the alarming rate of just... Idk, stupidity in their candidates. I mean, every party has them, but there's such a high rate of UKIP guys claiming gays cause droughts and stuff

I don't like their candidates, I like their ideas.
If you voted labour, did you vote for it because you liked their ideas or because Ed Miliband was their leader and you liked him?

You see, there's a line. You're voting for both, not one or the other.

If your candidate is an idiot, and you vote for him, you're trying to put an idiot in parliament.

[GreatestBanks]

I don't like their candidates, I like their ideas.
If you voted labour, did you vote for it because you liked their ideas or because Ed Miliband was their leader and you liked him?

You see, there's a line. You're voting for both, not one or the other.

If your candidate is an idiot, and you vote for him, you're trying to put an idiot in parliament.

I do not vote in the U.K since I do not live there. I have said before I'm a yankee, and even then I'm not eligible to vote. I just enjoy the ideas of UKIP. I'd only vote for a candidate in a constituency if a) I lived there b)I supported their ideas and c)they weren't stupid

Also, if I like the Republican Party in the USA, but say their congressional candidate is stupid, I just won't vote for him, I'll vote for a 3rd party or for ''None of the Above''

[GreatestBanks]

You gave me quite a shock on that last thread, Arch; first time I post on a UK politics thread in months and a mod lock moments later

We really should resurrect Gladstone, and make him a real eternal leader.

If we're resurrecting Gladstone, I move to simultaneously resurrect Disraeli too.

That I can agree with.

Gladstone V Disraeli 2020

[Val Halla]

You see, there's a line. You're voting for both, not one or the other.

If your candidate is an idiot, and you vote for him, you're trying to put an idiot in parliament.

I do not vote in the U.K since I do not live there. I have said before I'm a yankee, and even then I'm not eligible to vote. I just enjoy the ideas of UKIP.

Also, if I like the Republican Party, but say their congressional candidate is stupid, I just won't vote for him, I'll vote for a 3rd party or for ''None of the Above''

Well, a significant portion of UKIP's candidates are idiots.

[GreatestBanks]

I do not vote in the U.K since I do not live there. I have said before I'm a yankee, and even then I'm not eligible to vote. I just enjoy the ideas of UKIP.

Also, if I like the Republican Party, but say their congressional candidate is stupid, I just won't vote for him, I'll vote for a 3rd party or for ''None of the Above''

Well, a significant portion of UKIP's candidates are idiots.

I did not know that, I just know the party leaders&the party's ideas

[Minoa]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34263447

Corbyn's actions seems to reflect the opinions of the poor and vulnerable: the welfare cuts by the Conservative government have made a lot of people a lot less proud of being British. And me fleeing alone to Paris on 22-24 July 2015 really says a lot about how exasperated we are.

[GreatestBanks]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34263447

Corbyn's actions seems to reflect the opinions of the poor and vulnerable: the welfare cuts by the Conservative government have made a lot of people a lot less proud of being British. And me fleeing alone to Paris on 22-24 July 2015 really says a lot about how exasperated we are.

You are a single person lol. And if anything welfare cuts, at least in the U.S right here, would make most people happy and even more nationalist.

[Geilinor]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34263447

Corbyn's actions seems to reflect the opinions of the poor and vulnerable: the welfare cuts by the Conservative government have made a lot of people a lot less proud of being British. And me fleeing alone to Paris on 22-24 July 2015 really says a lot about how exasperated we are.

I'm not British, but that is not going to work when every other leader has sung it, even Michael Foot.

[Wolfmanne2]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34263447

Corbyn's actions seems to reflect the opinions of the poor and vulnerable: the welfare cuts by the Conservative government have made a lot of people a lot less proud of being British. And me fleeing alone to Paris on 22-24 July 2015 really says a lot about how exasperated we are.

Or, put it simply, he thought he'd be anti-monarchist for a bit, but didn't take into account the disrespect it would cause due to the context.

[Val Halla]

I'd like to point out that Corbyn, while he does have some extreme views, doesn't intend to bring in a lot of them

[Wolfmanne2]

I'd like to point out that Corbyn, while he does have some extreme views, doesn't intend to bring in a lot of them

It's still extreme enough to put centrists off from voting for him come 5 years over, say, the Lib Dems or the Tories.

[The Ridings of Yorkshire]

I think 2020 could go few different ways. Let me start by saying Corbyn won't win, he may attract some voters from the left and some disenfranchised voters but this will be countered by comparatively right wing supporters of Labour defecting to liberal democrats and given his questionable foreign and defence policy he'll get destroyed in the debates. That doesn't mean its time to bury Labour yet, Corbyn has reinvigorated young and left-far left voters and unless he does something really silly they aren't going away so debate will shift to the left (not as far as Labour might want but far enough to make conservative uncomfortable). With more moderate leader who has backing of Corbyn, Labour could possibly take it away although whoever takes over will need to go back on their promise wrt SNP (they aren't going to get enough seats in England without isolating themselves against SNP but they can't form majority without SNP). If conservative goes into election with comparatively left candidate, they could exploit the shift by Corbyn to get the majority (they aren't particularly reliant on Scotland for SNP to bother them).
Now if neither of these happen (ie. Labour go in with Corbyn/ Corbyn-lite or Conservatives go with right wing candidates/ don't move back to the centre), landscape will be prime to be exploited by liberal democrats. If they market themselves as centre-left candidate, they might be able to get back into the game although since they probably won't get enough seats with Labour (again SNP taking the Scotland and Labour + SNP not needing Liberals) and will probably avoid allying with Conservatives for a generation, I can't see them going into government. Maybe giving opposition a serious threat though.

Probably Jeremy Corybn will be able to rally the lower/working class, and I think he is more likely to enter a coalition with my gut instinct.
Hope he has a debating style better than Galloway's (best debater in the world apparently) to rip his opponents apart for a lulzstorm.

[Val Halla]

I'd like to point out that Corbyn, while he does have some extreme views, doesn't intend to bring in a lot of them

It's still extreme enough to put centrists off from voting for him come 5 years over, say, the Lib Dems or the Tories.

Don't know that yet, do we? I'd like to point out that almost every election the voting spectrum changes.

[Minoa]

I'd like to point out that Corbyn, while he does have some extreme views, doesn't intend to bring in a lot of them

I think Corbyn intends to sneak them in phases, until there is enough support for a republic. I'm 50/50 on the monarchy/republic debate – albeit overshadowed by whether I'd live in the UK by 2020-2021, let alone even being a citizen at all by the looks of the Conservatives' plans.

[Wolfmanne2]

It's still extreme enough to put centrists off from voting for him come 5 years over, say, the Lib Dems or the Tories.

Don't know that yet, do we? I'd like to point out that almost every election the voting spectrum changes.

Yes, we can't say anything that we can consider concrete in five years. But we can look at generalisation and political trend to make rational predictions. Of course, many voters are anything but irrational during elections (i.e. BoJo voters who voted for him because he was funny), so whether it will actually be true or not is a matter of academic debate.

I'd like to point out that Corbyn, while he does have some extreme views, doesn't intend to bring in a lot of them

I think Corbyn intends to sneak them in phases, until there is enough support for a republic. I'm 50/50 on the monarchy/republic debate – albeit overshadowed by whether I'd live in the UK by 2020-2021, let alone even being a citizen at all by the looks of the Conservatives' plans.

I'm not the biggest fan of the monarchy, in that I don't blindly fetishise over them like a lot of self-proclaimed monarchists. But for as long as they bring in more money than we spend on them, I support Liz being our Head Event Attender along with the rest of the parasites.

[Val Halla]

I'd like to point out that Corbyn, while he does have some extreme views, doesn't intend to bring in a lot of them

I think Corbyn intends to sneak them in phases, until there is enough support for a republic. I'm 50/50 on the monarchy/republic debate – albeit overshadowed by whether I'd live in the UK by 2020-2021, let alone even being a citizen at all by the looks of the Conservatives' plans.

I don't wanna stay >.<

Don't know that yet, do we? I'd like to point out that almost every election the voting spectrum changes.

Yes, we can't say anything that we can consider concrete in five years. But we can look at generalisation and political trend to make rational predictions. Of course, many voters are anything but irrational during elections (i.e. BoJo voters who voted for him because he was funny), so whether it will actually be true or not is a matter of academic debate.

Nobody expecting the Tories to crush it. But they did.

[Olivaero]

The following scenario has just dawned on me, in the next 5 years the Queen could die and we all know who would take over from her and how (un)popular he is... with a republican Labour leader possibly still there... shit could get extremely real for the Monarchy/Republic debate. Nobody is dethroning Queen Elizabeth the 2nd I think that is pretty damn certain but king Charles the 3rd? He might just prompt republicans (Corbyn) into making a debate of it. I still think he would ultimately lose that debate and it would severely hurt his election chances if he ever made that a real issue even with Charles instead of Elizabeth but it would bring the issue into the limelight.

[Ostroeuropa]

The following scenario has just dawned on me, in the next 5 years the Queen could die and we all know who would take over from her and how (un)popular he is... with a republican Labour leader possibly still there... shit could get extremely real for the Monarchy/Republic debate. Nobody is dethroning Queen Elizabeth the 2nd I think that is pretty damn certain but king Charles the 3rd? He might just prompt republicans (Corbyn) into making a debate of it. I still think he would ultimately lose that debate and it would severely hurt his election chances if he ever made that a real issue even with Charles instead of Elizabeth but it would bring the issue into the limelight.

Depends on the calibre of the republicans they trot out.
With Hitchens still alive... but he's not. So I can't really think of any powerful orators on the subject.

Reasoned analysts yes, but both sides have those.
And the monarchists have both the status quo, and emotion on their side. And quite a few orators.

[Alyakia]

United Kingdom of self-declared Nations,
haphaza'dly welded 'til Scotland gets mad.
We've no constitution, sucked at revolution,
But we get four FIFA teams (all of them bad)!

shamelessly stolen from another forum. this is our new anthem.

[The Matthew Islands]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34263447

Corbyn's actions seems to reflect the opinions of the poor and vulnerable: the welfare cuts by the Conservative government have made a lot of people a lot less proud of being British. And me fleeing alone to Paris on 22-24 July 2015 really says a lot about how exasperated we are.

Gonna go out a limb here but I'm going to put my money on it not being about that at all.

[Marcurix]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34263447

Corbyn's actions seems to reflect the opinions of the poor and vulnerable: the welfare cuts by the Conservative government have made a lot of people a lot less proud of being British. And me fleeing alone to Paris on 22-24 July 2015 really says a lot about how exasperated we are.

Gonna go out a limb here but I'm going to put my money on it not being about that at all.

Perish the thought that this not be a major statement on the state of a country.

Why, I once neglected to sing the theme of Only Fools and Horses in protest of a closing of a local bakery.