UK Politics Thread II: Gladstone's Revenge

[Great Nepal]

no really i am pissed off if we went after footballers for having a high salary for kicking a ball or certain capitalists for being rich for happening to be born into a family that already owned a business using other people's labour while poor people struggle despite working harder (turns out wages do not always correlate to how hard you work) you'd be screaming, don't give me this crap

Government doesn't pay footballers or people's inheritances while they do (at least partially) pay tube drivers. As they are using public's money to pay these salaries, we are certainly allowed to comment on salary levels.

then maybe you should support strong unions for teachers instead of supporting a pretty much just anti-union party? (bonus points for going after those that are successful and trying to drag them down, typical lef- wait a minute)
labour isn't the one actively trying to destroy unions and reduce public sector workers and teachers salaries and benefits.

So you'd have government pay all civil service members in excess of £50,000; how exactly do you plan on funding this?

[GreatestBanks]

So here is how I picture U.K Politics, please tell me if I am correct (I am a yank btw)

Conservative Party: Centre-right. Typical centre-right european party. (Current Majority Party)
Labour Party: Centre-Left. Although, with the ''New Labour'' Agenda that took place in the 90s, it moved to the centre. Has currently elected a very left-leaning person, probably will move back to the left soon.
UKIP: Right-wing, anti-EU, anti-immigration. Got 13% of the vote last election but no seats for some reason (This is personally my favorite party)
Liberal Democrats: Centrist, has few principles
SNP: Scottish Socialists who want to secede from the U.K
Green Party: Pro-enviroment, centre-left, social democrats?
Democratic Unionist Party: Right-wing pro north Ireland+rest of Ireland unionism
Plaid Cymru: Pro-Welsh independence, social democrats. Left Wing
Sinn Fein; Pro Irish Unionism. Social Democrats. Left Wing
Ulster Unionist Party: Pro unionism with Ireland. Centre-Right.
Social Democratic and Labour Party: Irish Nationalists, Social Democrats. Left-Wing

Pretty much, just bolded a few things. SNP aren't explicitly socialist, though perhaps it could be argued some of their senior members have socialist leanings. Only other thing is "Irish unionism" - What do you mean by that? Sinn Féin are Irish Nationalists, like the SDLP, and want a "united Ireland" - Basically, they want Ireland and the "six counties" (aka Northern Ireland) to come together as one state, independent of the UK. The UUP and DUP are unionists - They want Northern Ireland to remain a part of the UK, separate to the Republic of Ireland.

You seem pretty well informed generally though, which is always good to see. Why do you prefer UKIP to the other parties?

I prefer UKIP because it is closest to my political views. Although, I find some of their comments rather degrading and some even disgusting.

[Val Halla]

Pretty much, just bolded a few things. SNP aren't explicitly socialist, though perhaps it could be argued some of their senior members have socialist leanings. Only other thing is "Irish unionism" - What do you mean by that? Sinn Féin are Irish Nationalists, like the SDLP, and want a "united Ireland" - Basically, they want Ireland and the "six counties" (aka Northern Ireland) to come together as one state, independent of the UK. The UUP and DUP are unionists - They want Northern Ireland to remain a part of the UK, separate to the Republic of Ireland.

You seem pretty well informed generally though, which is always good to see. Why do you prefer UKIP to the other parties?

I prefer UKIP because it is closest to my political views. Although, I find some of their comments rather degrading and some even disgusting.

If a party can't master basic decency, I don't think people should vote for it.

Also, your sig is too long

[Hydesland]

So you'd have government pay all civil service members in excess of £50,000; how exactly do you plan on funding this?

I'm sure McDonnell will get his pals at the newly nationalized People's Democratic Bank of England to do him a few favors.

[Greater-London]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyNI7wm ... e=youtu.be

Havent seen one of these in a while ...

[Alyakia]

[Napkiraly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyNI7wmjS6s&feature=youtu.be

Havent seen one of these in a while ...

Saw Brian Cox share that on his FB page. God the reactions from some people are hilarious.

[Geilinor]

(Image)

Oh, Cameron. Why?

[Apollinis]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COyiIE7WgAAjg5b. png

11/10

That's genuinely brilliant

[The Huskar Social Union]

(Image)

Brilliant.

Just brilliant.

[Zeinbrad]

(Image)

My suspicious of Queen Elizabeth being Emperor Paplatine is confirmed.

[GreatestBanks]

I prefer UKIP because it is closest to my political views. Although, I find some of their comments rather degrading and some even disgusting.

If a party can't master basic decency, I don't think people should vote for it.

Also, your sig is too long

Well, my friend, I am that savage white american down the street in a white suburb that all your pals were talking about.

[Val Halla]

If a party can't master basic decency, I don't think people should vote for it.

Also, your sig is too long

Well, my friend, I am that savage white american down the street in a white suburb that all your pals were talking about.

... What?

My main gripe with UKIP is the alarming rate of just... Idk, stupidity in their candidates. I mean, every party has them, but there's such a high rate of UKIP guys claiming gays cause droughts and stuff

[Napkiraly]

Well, my friend, I am that savage white american down the street in a white suburb that all your pals were talking about.

... What?

My main gripe with UKIP is the alarming rate of just... Idk, stupidity in their candidates. I mean, every party has them, but there's such a high rate of UKIP guys claiming gays cause droughts and stuff

They also have a problem attracting racists as a self-proclaimed non-racist party.

[Val Halla]

... What?

My main gripe with UKIP is the alarming rate of just... Idk, stupidity in their candidates. I mean, every party has them, but there's such a high rate of UKIP guys claiming gays cause droughts and stuff

They also have a problem attracting racists as a self-proclaimed non-racist party.

There's being right, and there's just being wrong. UKIP are wrong.

[New Luckyland]

Next time you meet a UKIP candidate ask them to say "bottle of beer".

[The Matthew Islands]

When legal aid solicitors, teachers and civil servants get paid fuck all but train drivers have strong unions to justify their excessively high pay, I can't really be sympathetic to unions in this country. Granted the Tories aren't doing much to aid the first three. But wouldn't Labour do so too?

So, why do you feel that train drivers are "excessively highly paid"?
What makes you qualified to make that assertion?
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... lism-works

1 minor point about that article, it doesn't take into context that drivers are so hard to replace not because of a outside market force like lack of candidates, but because the Unions have effectively banned anyone from outside from applying to be a tube driver.

[Imperializt Russia]

So, why do you feel that train drivers are "excessively highly paid"?
What makes you qualified to make that assertion?
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... lism-works

1 minor point about that article, it doesn't take into context that drivers are so hard to replace not because of a outside market force like lack of candidates, but because the Unions have effectively banned anyone from outside from applying to be a tube driver.

Not that there's anything catastrophically wrong about that - it prevents some kind of mass outsourcing and drastic cuts, and as the article points out, you start at the bottom rung in TFL as platform staff. So you have to work up to tube driver.

[Atlanticatia]

1 minor point about that article, it doesn't take into context that drivers are so hard to replace not because of a outside market force like lack of candidates, but because the Unions have effectively banned anyone from outside from applying to be a tube driver.

Not that there's anything catastrophically wrong about that - it prevents some kind of mass outsourcing and drastic cuts, and as the article points out, you start at the bottom rung in TFL as platform staff. So you have to work up to tube driver.

I also don't understand why people are up in arms about a tube driver earning a decent salary - but likely don't care that CEOs earn millions and millions and bankers get huge bonuses every year - or the £100bn in tax reliefs each year. Attack someone who is rich, not working or middle class.

[Atlanticatia]

https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/stat ... 5606700032 oh shit, russia went there tho

[Rhodesia]

I'll take cover now but...

Labour will not win in 2020. The young and radicals may well flock to the party but the older generation of voters (who vote in droves) will not. The dispossessed and disenfranchised won't vote just because an old party elected an old-style leader. It's not whether Labour wins in Scotland that decides elections, it's weather Labour wins in Middle England and, since the realignment of the socio-economic landscape in the Western World in the late-70s/early-80s, every time - every time - Middle England has been offered the choice of centrist Conservative or far-left Labour, the Conservatives have won. (Say what you like, but Thatcher whilst in office was by the political dictionary definition a centrist.)

2020 success story: Corbyn increases Labour vote share in its heartlands and maybe wins a few more seats in the Central Scotland. But he'll distinctly turn off Middle England.

2020 disaster story: Corbyn leads Labour to 1983 2.0 and the Tories increase their majority.

I'm not grandstanding or Labour-bashing. The history is all there and, yes, it does repeat itself. I realise that the informed yoof of NSG will no doubt pull out their crystal balls and tell me how I'm wrong with the proof of Twitter (forgive my sarcastic pessimism) but seriously, check back here in 2020. I won't gloat. Promise.

[Rhodesia]

https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/643440355606700032 oh shit, russia went there tho

Has a point.

[Atlanticatia]

(Say what you like, but Thatcher whilst in office was by the political dictionary definition a centrist.)

Could you elaborate? Examples?

[Rhodesia]

(Say what you like, but Thatcher whilst in office was by the political dictionary definition a centrist.)

Could you elaborate? Examples?

Perhaps I ought to have said "liberal", but I felt her social conservatism really doesn't warrant the use of the term for her economic liberalism.

Alas: whilst she supported socially conservative values (such as emphasising a lot on the need for "strong families") and religious institutions, she also adopted radical ideas such as Rogernomics. Despite the economic liberalisation, she also increased public spending in the first half of her premiership. Imagine that, a Tory spending their way out of recession. Unheard of, eh. She was essentially big state in society, little (or no) state in business; for it's time, it was the defition of centrism.

Today, we consider centrism a (un)healthy mix of social progressivism, economic liberalism and state intervention in society/economics; the centre point in the 1980s was more to the right of what we know it to be today.

[Alyakia]

Labour will not win in 2020. The young and radicals may well flock to the party but the older generation of voters (who vote in droves) will not. The dispossessed and disenfranchised won't vote just because an old party elected an old-style leader. It's not whether Labour wins in Scotland that decides elections, it's weather Labour wins in Middle England and, since the realignment of the socio-economic landscape in the Western World in the late-70s/early-80s, every time - every time - Middle England has been offered the choice of centrist Conservative or far-left Labour, the Conservatives have won. (Say what you like, but Thatcher whilst in office was by the political dictionary definition a centrist.)

have you tried "get rid of middle england"