UK Politics Thread II: Gladstone's Revenge

[Valaran]

I was just reading The Sunday Times, who have published their rich list for the UK & Ireland.
As always, exceptionally informative, and interesting. So many wealthy individuals in retail, property & finance, to name but a few. Proof of how well this country is doing now.

Is it reflective of the general populace's ability to create wealth though, I wonder?

[Moctina]

I was just reading The Sunday Times, who have published their rich list for the UK & Ireland.
As always, exceptionally informative, and interesting. So many wealthy individuals in retail, property & finance, to name but a few. Proof of how well this country is doing now.

Is it reflective of the general populace's ability to create wealth though, I wonder?

It is the success of these individuals which provides tax revenue, which provides employment.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

I was just reading The Sunday Times, who have published their rich list for the UK & Ireland.
As always, exceptionally informative, and interesting. So many wealthy individuals in retail, property & finance, to name but a few. Proof of how well this country is doing now.

Who needs to waste time creating larger than life Tory caricatures when you're here?

[Imperializt Russia]

Is it reflective of the general populace's ability to create wealth though, I wonder?

It is the success of these individuals which provides tax revenue, which provides employment.

Hasn't trickle-down economics been thoroughly humiliated by this point?

Russia has the highest number of billionaires per capita. Is Russia doing very well?

[Valaran]

Is it reflective of the general populace's ability to create wealth though, I wonder?

It is the success of these individuals which provides tax revenue, which provides employment.

Unless the wealth is stored offshore, that is. But yes, that caveat aside, those are all welcome micro-level benefits. My issue is that one can't really determine 'national success' from this, as this is not representative of the nation.

[Moctina]

It is the success of these individuals which provides tax revenue, which provides employment.

Hasn't trickle-down economics been thoroughly humiliated by this point?

Russia has the highest number of billionaires per capita. Is Russia doing very well?

The privatisation of nationalised Russian industries after the fall of communism was done so badly that the officials bought it themselves.
It is a very different situation than in the UK, where people were allowed to- and did- buy shares in companies when they were sold in the 1980s.

[Imperializt Russia]

Hasn't trickle-down economics been thoroughly humiliated by this point?

Russia has the highest number of billionaires per capita. Is Russia doing very well?

The privatisation of nationalised Russian industries after the fall of communism was done so badly that the officials bought it themselves.
It is a very different situation than in the UK, where people were allowed to- and did- buy shares in companies when they were sold in the 1980s.

It's not that different to what occurred in the UK. The politics were much more open and the scale was smaller, but was similarly disastrous.

Privatisation is not inherently a bad thing. How privatisation of state firms has been done in the UK has been catastrophic. And though you probably write that off as rhetoric, I do not make that statement lightly.
When the telecoms, energy, rail and other industries were all privatised - we were promised lower prices through competition.

We didn't get that. Privatisation, as was sold to us, failed outright. We got cartels, collusion, monopoly and price-fixing.
The CEGB kept electricity prices basically static for forty years. It invested in power infrastructure and was a world leader in nuclear innovation. The most reliable nuclear programme in the world? The indigenous British graphite-moderated reactor families.

The former state firms were gelded and butchered by privatisation. Several were bought by the state firms of other countries, who made little to no investment in the systems they bought, which are now stretched to limit and woefully out of date.

[Moctina]

The privatisation of nationalised Russian industries after the fall of communism was done so badly that the officials bought it themselves.
It is a very different situation than in the UK, where people were allowed to- and did- buy shares in companies when they were sold in the 1980s.

It's not that different to what occurred in the UK. The politics were much more open and the scale was smaller, but was similarly disastrous.

Privatisation is not inherently a bad thing. How privatisation of state firms has been done in the UK has been catastrophic. And though you probably write that off as rhetoric, I do not make that statement lightly.
When the telecoms, energy, rail and other industries were all privatised - we were promised lower prices through competition.

We didn't get that. Privatisation, as was sold to us, failed outright. We got cartels, collusion, monopoly and price-fixing.
The CEGB kept electricity prices basically static for forty years. It invested in power infrastructure and was a world leader in nuclear innovation. The most reliable nuclear programme in the world? The indigenous British graphite-moderated reactor families.

The former state firms were gelded and butchered by privatisation. Several were bought by the state firms of other countries, who made little to no investment in the systems they bought, which are now stretched to limit and woefully out of date.

Although I respect the viewpoint, I'm afraid that is total & utter twiddle.
In 1979, industry in Britain was on its knees. Were were a humiliated country, who had lost its empire, its reputation, its worth ethic. Manufacturing was dead- the government was spending massive sums of money on industries which made no sense to be in the state domain. The privatisation of telecommunications, of water, of electricity, and so on, to big buyers, generated a massive industry in the UK which we still enjoy today- the industry of buy & sell.

[Vassenor]

The existence of rich people does not mean squat.

[Imperializt Russia]

It's not that different to what occurred in the UK. The politics were much more open and the scale was smaller, but was similarly disastrous.

Privatisation is not inherently a bad thing. How privatisation of state firms has been done in the UK has been catastrophic. And though you probably write that off as rhetoric, I do not make that statement lightly.
When the telecoms, energy, rail and other industries were all privatised - we were promised lower prices through competition.

We didn't get that. Privatisation, as was sold to us, failed outright. We got cartels, collusion, monopoly and price-fixing.
The CEGB kept electricity prices basically static for forty years. It invested in power infrastructure and was a world leader in nuclear innovation. The most reliable nuclear programme in the world? The indigenous British graphite-moderated reactor families.

The former state firms were gelded and butchered by privatisation. Several were bought by the state firms of other countries, who made little to no investment in the systems they bought, which are now stretched to limit and woefully out of date.

Although I respect the viewpoint, I'm afraid that is total & utter twiddle.
In 1979, industry in Britain was on its knees. Were were a humiliated country, who had lost its empire, its reputation, its worth ethic. Manufacturing was dead- the government was spending massive sums of money on industries which made no sense to be in the state domain. The privatisation of telecommunications, of water, of electricity, and so on, to big buyers, generated a massive industry in the UK which we still enjoy today- the industry of buy & sell.

I didn't say anything about manufacturing. I was talking about three of the key services the government once provided and no longer does. Rail travel and network, electricity generation and network, and telecommunications systems and network.

Ostensibly, we still hold the network for those three. Which is very much leaving the government with the short end of the stick - all of the infrastructure maintenance costs, little support, none of the profits.
The rail sector suffers from... woeful underinvestment, despite inexplicably inflated ticket prices and state subsidy. The electricity sector suffers from... some underinvestment, despite inexplicably inflated energy prices and state subsidy. And the telecoms industry... I don't even understand what happens there anymore.

Critically, except for telecoms, the firms don't really compete. Rail has basically no competition at all. They run certain lines and if they go in the direction you are, then you use their service. I've only been on one route where I actually have a choice of what service to use, and they all still have the gall to thank me for choosing them.

[Napkiraly]

The existence of rich people does not mean squat.

I mean, there are rich people in Nigeria that doesn't make Nigeria well off economically for most people.

[Napkiraly]

NUS prez has responded to all the accusations against her. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/24/new-nus-president-not-antisemitic-isis-sympathiser

[Hydesland]

NUS prez has responded to all the accusations against her. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/24/new-nus-president-not-antisemitic-isis-sympathiser

" Its language appeared to condemn all Muslims, not just the terror group. "

Where did it do this? I read the statement and language was entirely innocuous - either she's completely loopy, or she's trying to weasel out of what she did like a politician. Unless she can actually provide evidence of this alleged troublesome language that is.

"Over the last two years I have received untold vitriol online – rape and death threats in abundance. "

I know this is pretty bad, but I'm getting to get more and more skeptical when people talk about the huge abundance of online threats they get - why? Because it's just too politically convenient. It's an extremely easy trope that can be used to boost your image of bravery without having to provide a shred of evidence - the cynical side of me thinks at least some of these people might exaggerate the amount of harassment they get for political purposes.

"The student movement has always stood up to injustice. We were there to fight apartheid in South Africa, we were there to demand same-sex marriage, and we helped those seeking refuge during last year’s humanitarian crisis in Europe."

Cool, but what about student fees, student welfare & free academic expression - shouldn't those be the main priorities for a students union?

[Wolfmanne2]

NUS prez has responded to all the accusations against her. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/24/new-nus-president-not-antisemitic-isis-sympathiser

She probably believe her own version of events too.

[Wolfmanne2]

NUS prez has responded to all the accusations against her. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/24/new-nus-president-not-antisemitic-isis-sympathiser

" Its language appeared to condemn all Muslims, not just the terror group. "

Where did it do this? I read the statement and language was entirely innocuous - either she's completely loopy, or she's trying to weasel out of what she did like a politician. Unless she can actually provide evidence of this alleged troublesome language that is.

"Over the last two years I have received untold vitriol online – rape and death threats in abundance. "

I know this is pretty bad, but I'm getting to get more and more skeptical when people talk about the huge abundance of online threats they get - why? Because it's just too politically convenient. It's an extremely easy trope that can be used to boost your image of bravery without having to provide a shred of evidence - the cynical side of me thinks at least some of these people might exaggerate the amount of harassment they get for political purposes.

"The student movement has always stood up to injustice. We were there to fight apartheid in South Africa, we were there to demand same-sex marriage, and we helped those seeking refuge during last year’s humanitarian crisis in Europe."

Cool, but what about student fees, student welfare & free academic expression - shouldn't those be the main priorities for a students union?

1. This is code for 'I have a controversial view and disagreed with it, but I need to seem reasonable so use doublespeak mmkay'.

2. This. The vast majority of grassroots politics are fought on Twitter.

3. Cheaper booze, cheaper fags, better food. NUS can be useful there; no one particularly appreciates their view on Israel and Palestine.

[Napkiraly]

Well, apart from your local unis fundamentalist Muslims and communists.

Who combined pretty much make up UCL's union.

[Philjia]

It's not that different to what occurred in the UK. The politics were much more open and the scale was smaller, but was similarly disastrous.

Privatisation is not inherently a bad thing. How privatisation of state firms has been done in the UK has been catastrophic. And though you probably write that off as rhetoric, I do not make that statement lightly.
When the telecoms, energy, rail and other industries were all privatised - we were promised lower prices through competition.

We didn't get that. Privatisation, as was sold to us, failed outright. We got cartels, collusion, monopoly and price-fixing.
The CEGB kept electricity prices basically static for forty years. It invested in power infrastructure and was a world leader in nuclear innovation. The most reliable nuclear programme in the world? The indigenous British graphite-moderated reactor families.

The former state firms were gelded and butchered by privatisation. Several were bought by the state firms of other countries, who made little to no investment in the systems they bought, which are now stretched to limit and woefully out of date.

Although I respect the viewpoint, I'm afraid that is total & utter twiddle.
In 1979, industry in Britain was on its knees. Were were a humiliated country, who had lost its empire, its reputation, its worth ethic. Manufacturing was dead- the government was spending massive sums of money on industries which made no sense to be in the state domain. The privatisation of telecommunications, of water, of electricity, and so on, to big buyers, generated a massive industry in the UK which we still enjoy today- the industry of buy & sell.

We're being held over barrels by what are effectively cartels, with the markets tied up by decreasing numbers of corporations as companies subsume into each other through mergers and buyouts. In 1979, Britain needed surgery and a managed free market to ensure competitive pricing and a good deal for both consumers and entrepreneurs. What we got instead was a butcher who gutted the north and cut our industries into pieces that were chewed up and spat out by yuppies that eventually crashed the economy. There are communities up here that have never recovered from the pits and shipyards closing. Ashington, Darlington, even Sunderland. The next village over from mine has not a single shop of it's own.

[Questers]

I was just reading The Sunday Times, who have published their rich list for the UK & Ireland.
As always, exceptionally informative, and interesting. So many wealthy individuals in retail, property & finance, to name but a few. Proof of how well this country is doing now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33266799
UK has 2.3m children living in poverty, government says

[Napkiraly]

I was just reading The Sunday Times, who have published their rich list for the UK & Ireland.
As always, exceptionally informative, and interesting. So many wealthy individuals in retail, property & finance, to name but a few. Proof of how well this country is doing now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33266799
UK has 2.3m children living in poverty, government says

Obviously the poverty stricken little bastards aren't working hard enough.

[Questers]

in other news, all cultures are definitely equal!!

[Questers]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33266799
UK has 2.3m children living in poverty, government says

Obviously the poverty stricken little bastards aren't working hard enough.

they should have bought BT shares when they were being sold

this is a COUNTRY OF STOCKHOLDERS ok

[Shamhnan Insir]

Drawing comparisons between the referendums.

It seems to me that it's just a great fucking game for politicians. "Lets give politics to the masses and watch them descend into a spiteful morass of increasingly embittered and embittering fools for a few months over a pointless facet. Then we'll have the vote and just do whatever the fuck we fancy anyways."

That's it - ban referendums....

[Moctina]

Rather interestingly, I developed a 10-year plan using a mixture of unrestrained of free market economics & calulated government spending which, I believe, would make this country far, far more progressive & efficient than it has been for a long time.
Naturally, there are faults, but I believe that it would work- in theory, anyhow.

[Questers]

Nobody's ever done that before.

[Wintanceastre]

I was just reading The Sunday Times, who have published their rich list for the UK & Ireland.
As always, exceptionally informative, and interesting. So many wealthy individuals in retail, property & finance, to name but a few. Proof of how well this country is doing now.

I prefer the Tatler List, personally. But I did read the list as well, it's rather interesting to see how many people have become successful in our nation.