UK Politics Thread II: Gladstone's Revenge

[Atlanticatia]

I didn't think the idea of using crowd-sourced questions for PMQs was a good idea...it sounds great, but didn't really work in the environment. Corbyn should be using PMQs as a political point-scoring time - since Cameron profited quite well out of it when there weren't any politically difficult questions.

[PLESSUR]

I didn't think the idea of using crowd-sourced questions for PMQs was a good idea...it sounds great, but didn't really work in the environment. Corbyn should be using PMQs as a political point-scoring time - since Cameron profited quite well out of it when there weren't any politically difficult questions.

People's question time today, people's revolution tomorrow.

I agree, it was a terribly poor show from Corbyn. Very disappointing.

[Val Halla]

I'd have just gone "Yeaaaaah let's party!"

I would have just launched Operation Drink Myself to Oblivion In Despair

Tbh I'd have moved there

[Stormaen]

I kind of hope that dispossessed Labour voters revive the Liberal Democrats but I wouldn't want them moving away from the radical centre to cater for them. I'm more supportive of the Orange Book wing of the party anyway.

[PLESSUR]

I kind of hope that dispossessed Labour voters revive the Liberal Democrats but I wouldn't want them moving away from the radical centre to cater for them. I'm more supportive of the Orange Book wing of the party anyway.

I'm hoping that the Lib Dems move quickly to claim the centre left. Their election result has shown that that is where they ought to be. Who knows - Corbyn Labour might die off as a main government party and the Lib Dems might take their place.

[CoraSpia]

That was an absolute breeze for Cameron.

[Chartist Socialist Republics]

I didn't think the idea of using crowd-sourced questions for PMQs was a good idea...it sounds great, but didn't really work in the environment. Corbyn should be using PMQs as a political point-scoring time - since Cameron profited quite well out of it when there weren't any politically difficult questions.

People's question time today, people's revolution tomorrow.

I agree, it was a terribly poor show from Corbyn. Very disappointing.

Have you ever seen someone crash and burn at PMQs? Corbyn didn't perform terribly today. He's likely attempting to establish a new atmosphere and way of doing PMQs.

I think that it's fairly likely that Corbyn will become increasingly able to follow-up Cameron's responses in coming weeks, and keep the PM on his toes.

[Imperializt Russia]

i actually like it and would totally sing it. it is a good song.

Wasn't it written to boost morale for fighting the Scots though?

To be honest, I'd prefer it if our national anthem was more about the country and the people that inhabit it than the hereditary head of state.

Oh these Isles of Tea and Twee...

comrade corbyn:

hates britain
loves the IRA
loves hamas
hates the queen
wants to disband the army
wants humanity to be destroyed by an asteroid

premature ejaculation is a serious issue folks

If this is true , he is a traitor.

Good thing it's not then, isn't it?

[Vassenor]

i actually like it and would totally sing it. it is a good song.

Wasn't it written to boost morale for fighting the Scots though?

And the French National Anthem kind of lost its meaning after the revolution wound up.

[Stormaen]

I kind of hope that dispossessed Labour voters revive the Liberal Democrats but I wouldn't want them moving away from the radical centre to cater for them. I'm more supportive of the Orange Book wing of the party anyway.

I'm hoping that the Lib Dems move quickly to claim the centre left. Their election result has shown that that is where they ought to be. Who knows - Corbyn Labour might die off as a main government party and the Lib Dems might take their place.

Well, I'd actually welcome the Lib Dems becoming the main centre/centre-left party with Labour as a far-left fringe party.

[Hydesland]

Corbyn doesn't seem like a very cheery sort. Where's that jovial spirit I've come to expect from new opposition leaders? Disappointing indeed.

[The Archregimancy]

i actually like it and would totally sing it. it is a good song.

Wasn't it written to boost morale for fighting the Scots though?

No.

The first known verifiable published version of the tune pre-dates the 1745 Jacobite Rebellion (albeit only just), and while a long-standing tradition held that the anthem gained popularity as a morale boost after the Battle of Prestonpans, modern research shows that it was adopted by both Hanoverian and Jacobite supporters more or less simultaneously; and not all Jacobites were Scots anyway.


The myth that the anthem was directly associated with fighting Scots is likely down to the notorious 'fifth verse':

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King.

However, this was never recognised as an official addition to God Save the King, not even in the aftermath of the '45. It therefore holds similar a status to the contemporary Jacobite verse:

God bless the prince, I pray,
God bless the prince, I pray,
Charlie I mean;
That Scotland we may see
Freed from vile Presbyt'ry,
Both George and his Feckie,
Ever so, Amen.

[The Nihilistic view]

I kind of hope that dispossessed Labour voters revive the Liberal Democrats but I wouldn't want them moving away from the radical centre to cater for them. I'm more supportive of the Orange Book wing of the party anyway.

I'm hoping that the Lib Dems move quickly to claim the centre left. Their election result has shown that that is where they ought to be. Who knows - Corbyn Labour might die off as a main government party and the Lib Dems might take their place.

The Lib Dems lost a ton of seats to the Conservatives where their past voters moved to the Conservatives too. The election result really does not show that, they had a shit election shedding to the left and the right. All it showed is almost nobody approved of what they did last parliament. And I would not be surprised if quite a lot of protest votes went to UKIP either.

[The Nihilistic view]

Wasn't it written to boost morale for fighting the Scots though?

No.

The first known verifiable published version of the tune pre-dates the 1745 Jacobite Rebellion (albeit only just), and while a long-standing tradition held that the anthem gained popularity as a morale boost after the Battle of Prestonpans, modern research shows that it was adopted by both Hanoverian and Jacobite supporters more or less simultaneously; and not all Jacobites were Scots anyway.


The myth that the anthem was directly associated with fighting Scots is likely down to the notorious 'fifth verse':

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King.

However, this was never recognised as an official addition to God Save the King, not even in the aftermath of the '45. It therefore holds similar a status to the contemporary Jacobite verse:

God bless the prince, I pray,
God bless the prince, I pray,
Charlie I mean;
That Scotland we may see
Freed from vile Presbyt'ry,
Both George and his Feckie,
Ever so, Amen.

But it does not pre-date the 15. Not that I think it has anything to do with that either just that saying it pre-dates the 45 is not relevant when there is a previous rebellion it could be talking about.

EDIT: Also the "fifth verse" has never been part of the national anthem anyway.

[Napkiraly]

Sometimes I wonder what it must be like to be an irrelevant MP. One who holds no position but also doesn't have the kind of presence and personality that makes those without positions stand out (like Skinner or Rees-Mogg). It must be a depressing and pitiful existence.

[Tmutarakhan]

...
God bless the prince, I pray,
God bless the prince, I pray,
Charlie I mean;
That Scotland we may see
Freed from vile Presbyt'ry,
Both George and his Feckie,
Ever so, Amen.

What is a "Feckie"? My mind cannot stop coming up with possible meanings...

[CoraSpia]

Sometimes I wonder what it must be like to be an irrelevant MP. One who holds no position but also doesn't have the kind of presence and personality that makes those without positions stand out (like Skinner or Rees-Mogg). It must be a depressing and pitiful existence.

Not really. You get your nice paycheck, plus happy glowy feeling that you're representing a constituency.

[Napkiraly]

Sometimes I wonder what it must be like to be an irrelevant MP. One who holds no position but also doesn't have the kind of presence and personality that makes those without positions stand out (like Skinner or Rees-Mogg). It must be a depressing and pitiful existence.

Not really. You get your nice paycheck, plus happy glowy feeling that you're representing a constituency.

Meh, that wouldn't be enough for me.

[The Archregimancy]

No.

The first known verifiable published version of the tune pre-dates the 1745 Jacobite Rebellion (albeit only just), and while a long-standing tradition held that the anthem gained popularity as a morale boost after the Battle of Prestonpans, modern research shows that it was adopted by both Hanoverian and Jacobite supporters more or less simultaneously; and not all Jacobites were Scots anyway.


The myth that the anthem was directly associated with fighting Scots is likely down to the notorious 'fifth verse':

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King.

However, this was never recognised as an official addition to God Save the King, not even in the aftermath of the '45. It therefore holds similar a status to the contemporary Jacobite verse:

God bless the prince, I pray,
God bless the prince, I pray,
Charlie I mean;
That Scotland we may see
Freed from vile Presbyt'ry,
Both George and his Feckie,
Ever so, Amen.

But it does not pre-date the 15. Not that I think it has anything to do with that either just that saying it pre-dates the 45 is not relevant when there is a previous rebellion it could be talking about.

EDIT: Also the "fifth verse" has never been part of the national anthem anyway.

1) It clearly has no direct association with the 1715 Rebellion, which it significantly post-dates in recognisable form by almost 30 years; if it did have an association with the 1715 Rebellion, I likely would have said as much. Note the 'the tune pre-dates the 1745 Jacobite Rebellion (albeit only just)' [emphasis added] in the original post. You can therefore assume that the lack of reference to the '15 was a deliberate omission on my part.

2) If you care to take a moment to read the post to which you're replying just a little more closely, you'll note that, directly after the 'fifth verse' is quoted in full, said post contains the sentence 'However, this [the 'fifth verse'] was never recognised as an official addition to God Save the King, not even in the aftermath of the '45'. I've therefore already made the point for which you've taken so much effort to redundantly repeat via a wholly unnecessary edit.

[The Archregimancy]

...
God bless the prince, I pray,
God bless the prince, I pray,
Charlie I mean;
That Scotland we may see
Freed from vile Presbyt'ry,
Both George and his Feckie,
Ever so, Amen.

What is a "Feckie"? My mind cannot stop coming up with possible meanings...

The Scots English definitions I know are 'fickle', 'troublesome', 'needlessly detailed and decorated'.

However, while they all fit to some degree, those are all adjectives; I'll admit to being uncertain about its use as a noun.

[L Ron Cupboard]

...
God bless the prince, I pray,
God bless the prince, I pray,
Charlie I mean;
That Scotland we may see
Freed from vile Presbyt'ry,
Both George and his Feckie,
Ever so, Amen.

What is a "Feckie"? My mind cannot stop coming up with possible meanings...

Father Ted came to my mind. But it might mean George's son the Duke of Cumberland.

[The Archregimancy]

What is a "Feckie"? My mind cannot stop coming up with possible meanings...

Father Ted came to my mind. But it might mean George's son the Duke of Cumberland.

Having gone to do some more research on the subject, it's a diminutive of 'Frederick', and refers to Frederick, Prince of Wales - who of course would predecease his father George II by 9 years in 1751. George III was Frederick's eldest son.

[The Nihilistic view]

But it does not pre-date the 15. Not that I think it has anything to do with that either just that saying it pre-dates the 45 is not relevant when there is a previous rebellion it could be talking about.

EDIT: Also the "fifth verse" has never been part of the national anthem anyway.

1) It clearly has no direct association with the 1715 Rebellion, which it significantly post-dates in recognisable form by almost 30 years; if it did have an association with the 1715 Rebellion, I likely would have said as much. Note the 'the tune pre-dates the 1745 Jacobite Rebellion (albeit only just)' [emphasis added] in the original post. You can therefore assume that the lack of reference to the '15 was a deliberate omission on my part.

2) If you care to take a moment to read the post to which you're replying just a little more closely, you'll note that, directly after the 'fifth verse' is quoted in full, said post contains the sentence 'However, this [the 'fifth verse'] was never recognised as an official addition to God Save the King, not even in the aftermath of the '45'. I've therefore already made the point for which you've taken so much effort to redundantly repeat via a wholly unnecessary edit.

Clearly not as much effort as your impression of a bear with a sore head.

[L Ron Cupboard]

Father Ted came to my mind. But it might mean George's son the Duke of Cumberland.

Having gone to do some more research on the subject, it's a diminutive of 'Frederick', and refers to Frederick, Prince of Wales - who of course would predecease his father George II by 9 years in 1751. George III was Frederick's eldest son.

Shame it isn't a derivative of the Father Ted style feck. Just wishing I knew someone called Fred...

[Monkeykind]

Vote currently ongoing for New Clause 3 in the Education and Adoption Bill. The bill is at the report stage.