9/11

[Hyfling]

This thread has just turned into a whirlwind of edge.

[BlazingAngel]

More like whirlwind of death

[The Siverian Republic]

What would you have done to end the Second World War?

Offered peace terms?

The US wanted unconditional surrender. The Soviets wanted to possibly invade Japan, and that wouldn't have been well. So that is what sped up the surrender. Japan may be communist to this day because of you, and you wouldn't be too popular in America.

[Furry Alairia and Algeria]

I have a pretty obvious bias, being someone who shouldn't really be alive right not, had it not been for a few circumstances.

I'll expand on why I am and what I think when I'm not on mobile. Preliminary round

[Giovenith]

I was only 4 when it happened, so I don't have any personal memories of the tragedy--but I have talked with my mother quite a bit about it. She tells me that she and several other parents panicked and picked their kids up from preschool early, because everyone was so paranoid that a plane was just going to drop out of the sky at any minute or something (even though we were nowhere near New York), and that she tried her best to explain the circumstances to me in a way I could understand, a la, "Some bad people did some bad things." My grandfather got mad and told her he didn't think it was appropriate trying to let me know about it, but she said that because this was such a huge event it wasn't fair to let my memories be filled with confusion... which sort of flopped, given I remembered nothing.

She also has told me that upon 9/11, for the first time, she felt like she knew nothing. She'd spent her life in the very secure notion that America was a powerful, untouchable, universally-adored country that nobody would ever want to fuck with let alone be able to. Very naive, "Tra la la, we're the greatest country on earth!" mentality, suddenly blown completely out of the water by the sudden violent wake-up call that people out there actually hated us, that we had enemies and critics. It forced her to become more worldly, she forced herself to do more research not just on the Middle East, but on the rest of the world in general, and wound up developing a much more accurate and grim idea of what kind of position our country was actually in. Socially at home, she also tells me she believes the overall culture has lost a good degree of the innocence it used to have; not just from 9/11 but the simultaneous digital revolution that has caused us to be more hyper-aware of the world around us and the dark side of things. While I don't feel like a particularly cold person, she tells me that I and others my age are much more callous and numb to dark realities than people our age were in her time, because we've grown up in a time where these things were more part of daily life than before. It's something she both finds sad and envies, sad in that her children will never have quite the same safe feeling she used to, but envious and impressed in that it means we're far more knowledgeable and prepared than she ever was. When she was young she could only guess at things about life and the world, now it's a time when all the answers and examples are at the push of a button--even the most horrifying ones.

At least that's what she believes and has told me. Obviously, I can't confirm it or deny it because as she has said, it's an era I've known nothing else besides. Obviously I give all my condolences to the innocents and feel sadness at looking back at the footage and recollections of others, but it's not something I've lived through, I'm only stuck with the results it left behind. If my mother is to be believed, I'm very much a pioneer in a new kind of world without precedent, the eventual changes of which can never be completely predicted. That's a daunting feeling. It means there will be things I can't look backward on advice for, and it means that it's quite possible that someday I myself will have to face an event of similar magnitude and the changes it will bring. In that sense, 9/11 holds a very existential kind of awe for me, a complete turning point in history close enough to pinpoint but far enough to personally exist as a kind of "unconscious result" of it. It's odd, but it's a unique trait to bear, and in a way, I feel an appreciation toward it--much as I clearly wish to wish away history as anyone else.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Rest in peace, to the 2,996 Americans that died in 9/11.

And rest in peace to the 1,445,590 Iraqis who died in the U.S. invasion for something they didn't do.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Offered peace terms?

The US wanted unconditional surrender. The Soviets wanted to possibly invade Japan, and that wouldn't have been well. So that is what sped up the surrender. Japan may be communist to this day because of you, and you wouldn't be too popular in America.

The Soviets had 0 capacity for any large invasion of Japan, but that's getting off topic.

[BlazingAngel]

I don't think this thread is on remembrance of 9/11 anymore.

[Geilinor]

What would you have done to end the Second World War?

Offered peace terms?

The Allies wanted unconditional surrender to prevent the situation that happened after World War I.

[Amuaplye]

9/11 changed the world.
It showed us that we have to fight terrorism where ever it is.

However US interventions might have helped causing radical islam to rise now and in the future.

That's why after the Iraq war, we should've left the Middle East Permanently.

[Chestaan]

Offered peace terms?

The US wanted unconditional surrender. The Soviets wanted to possibly invade Japan, and that wouldn't have been well. So that is what sped up the surrender. Japan may be communist to this day because of you, and you wouldn't be too popular in America.

Read it again. Japan agreed to enter talks before the second bomb and just after Russia declared war. It was Russia's declaration of war that forced Japan into unconditional surrender.

But we digress, to avoid derailing I suggest that we agree to disagree or you can start another thread to discuss this issue.

[Apollinis]

I don't think this thread is on remembrance of 9/11 anymore.

Apart from the two posts posted in the last three minutes which are in remembrance of 9/11.

[BlazingAngel]

I don't think this thread is on remembrance of 9/11 anymore.

Apart from the two posts posted in the last minute which are in remembrance of 9/11.

Not anymore when people talked about Japan.

[Vassenor]

I don't think this thread is on remembrance of 9/11 anymore.

What is so wrong about discussing the "why" behind the event as well as the "what" of the event itself?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Rest in peace, to the 2,996 Americans that died in 9/11.

And rest in peace to the 1,445,590 Iraqis who died in the U.S. invasion for something they didn't do.

Where exactly are you getting that number? Because the most reliable ones I can find hover around a few hundred thousand.

[Geilinor]

Rest in peace, to the 2,996 Americans that died in 9/11.

And rest in peace to the 1,445,590 Iraqis who died in the U.S. invasion for something they didn't do.

Studies show about 500,000 deaths from all causes, not 1.5 million. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/131015-iraq-war-deaths-survey-2013/ About 150,000 deaths were directly because of the war.

[BlazingAngel]

I don't think this thread is on remembrance of 9/11 anymore.

What is so wrong about discussing the "why" behind the event as well as the "what" of the event itself?

Find go ahead, I won;t stop you. What else did the mods allow this discussion to go on anyway?

[Vassenor]

What is so wrong about discussing the "why" behind the event as well as the "what" of the event itself?

Find go ahead, I won;t stop you. What else did the mods allow this discussion to go on anyway?

It's not been shut down because no rules have been broken.

[BlazingAngel]

Find go ahead, I won;t stop you. What else did the mods allow this discussion to go on anyway?

It's not been shut down because no rules have been broken.

There almost been because people were cursing at each other and politics went way too far as this discussion went overheated.

[Eastern Equestria]

The US wanted unconditional surrender. The Soviets wanted to possibly invade Japan, and that wouldn't have been well. So that is what sped up the surrender. Japan may be communist to this day because of you, and you wouldn't be too popular in America.

Read it again. Japan agreed to enter talks before the second bomb and just after Russia declared war. It was Russia's declaration of war that forced Japan into unconditional surrender.

But we digress, to avoid derailing I suggest that we agree to disagree or you can start another thread to discuss this issue.

I suggest you give this a good read.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Rest in peace, to the 2,996 Americans that died in 9/11.

And rest in peace to the 1,445,590 Iraqis who died in the U.S. invasion for something they didn't do.

Studies show about 500,000 deaths, not 1.5 million. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/131015-iraq-war-deaths-survey-2013/

You're right, my apologies. Fault of my own memory.

[Hyfling]

What would you have done to end the Second World War?

Offered peace terms?

And Germany offered a peace treaty with France and Britain shortly after annexing Poland, on the condition they could keep Poland.

This is why the Allies wanted unconditional surrender, the conditions were simply unnacceptable. IIRC the Japanese conditions included immunity from war crimes and being allowed to keep captured territories.

They'd have no reason not to go to war, quick conquer someone else's land, then call for peace with no consequence whatsoever.

[Buckfastistan]

why cling to bad stuff? Shouldn't we remember good things that happen in America'a history? Its like we just focuses on the bad in this country.

Well, the Americans aren't exactly going to forget 9/11 are they?

[BlazingAngel]

Offered peace terms?

And Germany offered a peace treaty with France and Britain shortly after annexing Poland, on the condition they could keep Poland.

This is why the Allies wanted unconditional surrender, the conditions were simply unnacceptable. IIRC the Japanese conditions included immunity from war crimes and being allowed to keep captured territories.

They'd have no reason not to go to war, quick conquer someone else's land, then call for peace with no consequence whatsoever.

Have you ever lost your loved ones to a goddamn terrorists? Cause that what happened to people on 9/11.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Rest in peace, to the 2,996 Americans that died in 9/11.

And rest in peace to the 1,445,590 Iraqis who died in the U.S. invasion for something they didn't do.

Where exactly are you getting that number? Because the most reliable ones I can find hover around a few hundred thousand.

Well, actually, there is a source, though it's definitely disputed.