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What would you change about history?

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Al-Orthodoxia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Al-Orthodoxia » Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:14 am

Sun Wukong wrote:
Ifreann wrote:It's no Nogai.

Does anyone else find it hilarious that the Muscovite Flag is literally killing the Kazan standard?

That's an impressive bit of spite when you say, "we hate this country so much we're putting murdering them on our flag."

Well, officialy not. As the Muscovite standard refers to the killing of the dragon by St. George. And whilst the Kazan standard looks like a dragon, it is not. It's a Tatar mythical creature called a Zilant, which is between a dragon and a wyvern. Folklore said that before the Zilant threatened the Volga-Bulgars (old name for Kazan Tatars) near Kazan. However they bribed him and now he hides somewhere in Tatarstan, only to protect the Tatars when they are under attack. Moreover does the lore of St George killing the dragon have nothing to do with Kazan.

I'm sorry, I had to be that guy again.
Last edited by Al-Orthodoxia on Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Internationalist Bastard
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Ex-Nation

Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:18 am

Find John Bull. Beat him up.
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The Wolven League
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Postby The Wolven League » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:07 am

Internationalist Bastard wrote:Find John Bull. Beat him up.

Any particular reason?
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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:09 pm

Sun Wukong wrote:Does anyone else find it hilarious that the Muscovite Flag is literally killing the Kazan standard?

That's an impressive bit of spite when you say, "we hate this country so much we're putting murdering them on our flag."


If I ever create my own country, I'm definitely going to use that idea :P
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Sun Wukong
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Postby Sun Wukong » Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:45 pm

Al-Orthodoxia wrote:
Sun Wukong wrote:Does anyone else find it hilarious that the Muscovite Flag is literally killing the Kazan standard?

That's an impressive bit of spite when you say, "we hate this country so much we're putting murdering them on our flag."

Well, officialy not. As the Muscovite standard refers to the killing of the dragon by St. George. And whilst the Kazan standard looks like a dragon, it is not. It's a Tatar mythical creature called a Zilant, which is between a dragon and a wyvern. Folklore said that before the Zilant threatened the Volga-Bulgars (old name for Kazan Tatars) near Kazan. However they bribed him and now he hides somewhere in Tatarstan, only to protect the Tatars when they are under attack. Moreover does the lore of St George killing the dragon have nothing to do with Kazan.

I'm sorry, I had to be that guy again.

Right, well the next time I use the time-portal in the catacombs of Moscow, I'll be sure to tell the old Muscovites that the creature on their enemy's standard is a Zilant, and not a dragon, and therefore the co-opting of the St. George myth for political purposes is misguided.

I'm sure they'll listen. Medieval Russians are redound for their nuance.
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Neo Arcad
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Postby Neo Arcad » Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:10 pm

Stellonia wrote:
Neo Arcad wrote:I'd prevent the United States from annexing Texas in 1845.

By doing this, I'd prevent the slave states from gaining any more power, and have them stop their advance westward. They'd soon be outnumbered by a lot, as new free states entered the union. Meanwhile, there'd be no Mexican-American War, or at least it'd be smaller in scale. This would mean that all the combat veterans who went into the CSA's army wouldn't exist. These two factors would conspire to prevent in large measure the Civil War from coming to a head, due to the weaker nature of the South. Slavery would therefore be abolished by legislation rather than force of arms, and as a result, you would see less bitterness from the post-slavery era. The handling of resettlement of former slaves would be managed much better because it wouldn't be a slapdash thing cobbled together at the last moment, and I'm pretty sure you'd see more blacks living in the Great Plains and out west due to the abundance of land there. The abolitionist movement would have been allowed to fully bloom, creating a more positive racial environment.

The Mexicans might retain California and the American SW, even in the face of Texas expanding south to the Rio Grande like it did under the US yoke in real life. At the same time, you'd eventually see the northern parts of Mexico secede in order to either join Texas, or start their own republic(s). Still, you'd see Mexico retaining its prestige and maybe dodging the plethora of shit rulers it had in the late 19th century. European affairs not being greatly affected at first, you'd still see stuff like Napoleon III, and perhaps the Revolutions of 1848.

Sounds much better than reality. Does Texas get annexed at any point, by the way?


Probably not. Given time, they would have rapidly developed a solid nationalistic sentiment and a very cool identity somewhere between Hispanic and Anglo. They supported several breakaway Mexican republics, like Yucatan, so it stands to reason that Tejas would have looked outwards and become a middleman between the English-speaking nations of Canada and the USA, and the southern Spanish-speaking countries. If in the future something like the OAS was formed, you can bet it'd be headquartered in Texas.

If I may indulge in a speculative history of the world following the things that would have happened, I would wager that the US and Britain would have been brought into conflict rather than alliance. This, together with the lower levels of military technology and greater emphasis on fighting American and African natives, would either postpone any kind of Great War by a decade or two, or else bring it early, but with less casualties. You'd likely see the Prussian ambitions in North Germany succeed, but whether they'd manage to get the entire pie is questionable. Without their superior military technology, though, a unification war would have gone much worse, to say nothing of the Austro-Prussian War which had to come first. Thus, one might see the Prussians split Germany with Austria, reinforcing the latter nation with more German heartland and likely driving it straight into the arms of Russia. A stronger Austria is of course a much larger threat to Italy than the Italians would have liked, so they'd have seen Austria as their primary enemy, putting a Triple Alliance out of the question. Without Bismarck and Germany to keep the peace in Europe into the 20th Century, and to moderate the Scramble, Africa and Europe would be the scene of many minor clashes between various great powers. In the end, I think the Anglo-French allies would get the better of the African game, but Austria and Russia would dominate the Middle East and cow the Ottomans into submission enough to allow them to seize the Caucasus and keep Britain out of Egypt.

In Asia, Japan might not have been jarred awake as in real life by the arrival of the US Navy, but it surely would have been roused to modernity eventually. The trouble is, this would have given them a disadvantage in the Sino-Japanese War, and the Chinese a leg up. A success against Japan would have opened Chinese eyes to the danger of their outdated elements as their loss did in real life, only without it being too little too late due to the lag in European military tech. The Qing had the numerical superiority, and if they'd managed to re-assert themselves successfully with something akin to the Boxer Rebellion (but not a huge failure), I can see them turning out rather well. Of course, this is assuming they'd come out of the Taiping Rebellion in one piece, which is... possible. Regardless of who's at the helm after the Second Son of God rises up, there's no denying that the Chinese would be better off.
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Rusozak
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Postby Rusozak » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:22 pm

The Princes of the Universe wrote:
Rusozak wrote:I would have Poland, not Russia, become Eastern Europe's dominant power. Finally, Poland can into space.

What would you change to make this possible though?


I don't know, Poland conquers the golden horde, Muscovy, and Novgorod? Without enemies to the east, they would fend off Austrian and Prussian ambitions.
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Cuprum
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Postby Cuprum » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:28 pm

I'd kill Abraham of Ur and all his sons or Noah if i have the power. No more religions with more than a billion of adepts.

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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:35 pm

Cuprum wrote:I'd kill Abraham of Ur and all his sons or Noah if i have the power. No more religions with more than a billion of adepts.


Until Buddhism or Hinduism fills said void. Or Zoroastrianism for that matter.
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Internationalist Bastard
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:39 pm

The Wolven League wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Find John Bull. Beat him up.

Any particular reason?

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Meryuma
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Postby Meryuma » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:42 pm

I've thought of a good one: Have every culture keep written records. You get a writing system, and you get a writing system, and you get a writing system! It would vastly increase humanity's knowledge of... everything, basically.
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Conscentia
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Postby Conscentia » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:45 pm

Meryuma wrote:I've thought of a good one: Have every culture keep written records. You get a writing system, and you get a writing system, and you get a writing system! It would vastly increase humanity's knowledge of... everything, basically.

A few did have writing systems, but they're undecipherable now.

It'd be more useful if you gave them all the same writing system, or derivations of one. (Like how Latin, Greek, and Cyrillic are all descended from the same source, making transliteration generally easy.)
Last edited by Conscentia on Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Wolven League
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Postby The Wolven League » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:37 am

Salus Maior wrote:
Cuprum wrote:I'd kill Abraham of Ur and all his sons or Noah if i have the power. No more religions with more than a billion of adepts.


Until Buddhism or Hinduism fills said void. Or Zoroastrianism for that matter.

Pan-Zoroastrian plot!
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Conscentia
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Postby Conscentia » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:22 am

Cuprum wrote:I'd kill Abraham of Ur and all his sons or Noah if i have the power. No more religions with more than a billion of adepts.

I strongly doubt that Noah and Abraham were real.
Last edited by Conscentia on Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Confederate Ramenia
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Postby Confederate Ramenia » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:57 pm

Conscentia wrote:
Cuprum wrote:I'd kill Abraham of Ur and all his sons or Noah if i have the power. No more religions with more than a billion of adepts.

I strongly doubt that Noah was real.

Noah is a myth but Ibraham is real?
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The Wolven League
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Postby The Wolven League » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:20 am

Confederate Ramenia wrote:
Conscentia wrote:I strongly doubt that Noah was real.

Noah is a myth but Ibraham is real?

Why wouldn't he be real? The only really arguable things about his life is if he truly was a prophet of God. Him not existing would really create doubts as to the validity of all Abrahamic religions, as well as who founded Judaism.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:37 am

The Wolven League wrote:
Confederate Ramenia wrote:Noah is a myth but Ibraham is real?

Why wouldn't he be real? The only really arguable things about his life is if he truly was a prophet of God. Him not existing would really create doubts as to the validity of all Abrahamic religions, as well as who founded Judaism.


There isn't any solid historical evidence he was real that I'm aware of.
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Maichuko
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Postby Maichuko » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:44 am

I'd prevent the assassination of Franz ferdinand by either making him take the other direction or make gavrilo princip late to the parade.
or save abraham lincoln.
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Wolfmanne2
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Postby Wolfmanne2 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:46 am

Maichuko wrote:I'd prevent the assassination of Franz ferdinand by either making him take the other direction or make gavrilo princip late to the parade.
or save abraham lincoln.

Sorry to say, but World War I was inevitably going to happen. Strangely enough butterflies might mean that you avert Adolf Hitler rising to power.
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Vylenograd
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Postby Vylenograd » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:50 am

I'd make Hitler win

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The Hobbesian Metaphysician
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Postby The Hobbesian Metaphysician » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:51 am

Vylenograd wrote:I'd make Hitler win

Yeah no.

Lets not masturbate to the deaths of the 150 million that would have occurred if Generalplan Ost were successful.
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The Wolven League
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Postby The Wolven League » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:55 am

Vylenograd wrote:I'd make Hitler win

I hope you mean only to see how the world would be?
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Nationes Pii Redivivi
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Postby Nationes Pii Redivivi » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:57 am

Vylenograd wrote:I'd make Hitler win


...a bullet right through his head instead of his right bollock.


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Al-Orthodoxia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Al-Orthodoxia » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:05 pm

Conscentia wrote:
Confederate Ramenia wrote:Noah is a myth but Ibraham is real?

I doubt Abraham was real too.

Plot twist

Abraham is Ibrahim.
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