South Carolina to seek the death penalty for Dylann Roof.

[Ifreann]

I don't see any death penalty here, what I see is just an animal getting ready to be put down.

Is that so? Because animals, the non-human ones at least, aren't really capable of doing immoral. If a dog bites someone or a bird shits on someone or a monkey runs off with someone's beer we don't call them evil. Because other animals have no comprehension of right or wrong. It's meaningless to judge their actions the way we judge human actions.

So if you're saying that Dylann Roof is an animal, then you're essentially saying that he didn't do anything wrong, he's just wild or badly trained. And that sounds pretty fucked up to me. Especially since we also don't put animals on trial either. I'm sure you didn't mean anything of the sort, and you're probably just trying to express your anger towards him, but maybe find a better way to do it than excusing him of any wrongdoing.

---

Good. This is no different from putting down a known dangerous dog.

See above.

[Uxupox]

I don't see any death penalty here, what I see is just an animal getting ready to be put down.

Is that so? Because animals, the non-human ones at least, aren't really capable of doing immoral. If a dog bites someone or a bird shits on someone or a monkey runs off with someone's beer we don't call them evil. Because other animals have no comprehension of right or wrong. It's meaningless to judge their actions the way we judge human actions.

So if you're saying that Dylann Roof is an animal, then you're essentially saying that he didn't do anything wrong, he's just wild or badly trained. And that sounds pretty fucked up to me. Especially since we also don't put animals on trial either. I'm sure you didn't mean anything of the sort, and you're probably just trying to express your anger towards him, but maybe find a better way to do it than excusing him of any wrongdoing.

Actually dolphins and killer whales are known animals that commit cruelty. So in that regard we can call those that do so "evil". And I'm not excusing him of any wrongdoing at all. I was saying the sentence in a type of metaphoric.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Perhaps it is not a good reason for the death penalty, but it seems that the death penalty will provide for a rather base and primal desire that many of us, even if we do not acknowledge it, feel for retribution, even if it is, as you say, and as most people would acknowledge, wasteful, and ineffective as a deterrent.

[Big Jim P]

Perhaps it is not a good reason for the death penalty, but it seems that the death penalty will provide for a rather base and primal desire that many of us, even if we do not acknowledge it, feel for retribution, even if it is, as you say, and as most people would acknowledge, wasteful, and ineffective as a deterrent.

It does provide that. It also is not a deterrent, but a putting down of a known dangerous animal.

[United Marxist Nations]

I'd be more in-favor of forced labor. I am against the death penalty in most cases, but I can't say I'll mourn him.

[Ifreann]

Is that so? Because animals, the non-human ones at least, aren't really capable of doing immoral. If a dog bites someone or a bird shits on someone or a monkey runs off with someone's beer we don't call them evil. Because other animals have no comprehension of right or wrong. It's meaningless to judge their actions the way we judge human actions.

So if you're saying that Dylann Roof is an animal, then you're essentially saying that he didn't do anything wrong, he's just wild or badly trained. And that sounds pretty fucked up to me. Especially since we also don't put animals on trial either. I'm sure you didn't mean anything of the sort, and you're probably just trying to express your anger towards him, but maybe find a better way to do it than excusing him of any wrongdoing.

Actually dolphins and killer whales are known animals that commit cruelty.

So why don't we go about arresting dolphins and orcas? Why don't we have protest against their cruelty? Because they don't have the same moral capacity as humans. They're not choosing to do those things in the same way that human criminals do.

So in that regard we can call those that do so "evil". And I'm not excusing him of any wrongdoing at all. I was saying the sentence in a type of metaphoric.

And I'm saying that the metaphor is flawed. Dylann Roof had it in his power to not kill those people. He could have walked away at any time. But he didn't. He chose to kill them. And that's what makes his actions wrong, immoral, evil, whatever you want to call it. He's not a monster, he's not an animal, because if he was this wouldn't be his fault, he wouldn't have had any choice.

[The Serbian Empire]

If the death penalty is to be on the law books, then situations like this are the most appropriate ones for the death penalty.

Yeah, in Michigan that would be multiple life sentences instead without parole.

[Polar Svalbard]

You know, this is why I want hard labor. Instead of the death penalty they should commit to hard labor for almost every waking hour, every day, every year. Thus they pay off all of theuir debts to society. Maybe its Gulags, maybe its results.

[Avalon]

It's as sad and wasteful to kill him as it is to keep him alive. He will never be able to pay for his crimes, anyway and I'm afraid he's not of any use to society.

Keep him locked up in prison forever? that's also cruel and he can never be set free.

The most humane thing is to get rid of him.

edit: Polar Svalbard is kind of right

[Big Jim P]

I'd be more in-favor of forced labor. I am against the death penalty in most cases, but I can't say I'll mourn him.

Forced labor (slavery in other words) is a good idea as punishment for some crimes. However, so is the death penalty.

[Ifreann]

You know, this is why I want hard labor. Instead of the death penalty they should commit to hard labor for almost every waking hour, every day, every year. Thus they pay off all of theuir debts to society. Maybe its Gulags, maybe its results.

No amount of labour on his part will ever restore the people he killed to life, nor undo the trauma their loved ones and wider society suffered. He could labour until the end of time itself and it wouldn't be enough. So what's the point?

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

I'd be more in-favor of forced labor. I am against the death penalty in most cases, but I can't say I'll mourn him.

Forced labor (slavery in other words) is a good idea as punishment for some crimes. However, so is the death penalty.

I'm not going to say that this is a well thought out, rational opinion based upon some moral principle, but all I want is to see him suffer. If it were legal, I would wish that he were executed via "death by a thousand cuts" or the "blood eagle".

[Ifreann]

Forced labor (slavery in other words) is a good idea as punishment for some crimes. However, so is the death penalty.

I'm not going to say that this is a well thought out, rational opinion based upon some moral principle, but all I want is to see him suffer. If it were legal, I would wish that he were executed via "death by a thousand cuts" or the "blood eagle".

It would be great if we could not do the whole thing where people try to one-up each other on how gruesomely they want Roof tortured and/or executed.

[Big Jim P]

Forced labor (slavery in other words) is a good idea as punishment for some crimes. However, so is the death penalty.

I'm not going to say that this is a well thought out, rational opinion based upon some moral principle, but all I want is to see him suffer. If it were legal, I would wish that he were executed via "death by a thousand cuts" or the "blood eagle".

My personal preference would have been for him to die in a hail of bullets when he attacked.

[Librica (Ancient)]

I think he should be freed.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

I think he should be freed.

I think you are just saying things to get a rise out of people. :troll face:

[Mesogiria]

You know, this is why I want hard labor. Instead of the death penalty they should commit to hard labor for almost every waking hour, every day, every year. Thus they pay off all of theuir debts to society. Maybe its Gulags, maybe its results.

Inmates working in the South Carolina Service Program earn anywhere from $0.35 to $1.80 per hour, and those in the Prison Industry Enterprise (PIE) Program can earn between $7.25 and $10.00 an hour.

Let's go with that $1.80 an hour, ten hours a day, six days a week, and half a day on Sunday (for religious observances), with all his pay being confiscated to repay his 'debt to society.'

That's 65 hours a week, for $117. At roughly 50 weeks a year (knocking off days to account for illness, injury, unforeseen circumstances, legal proceedings, meetings with lawyers, and so on), he could $5,850 per year in terms of pay.

He is presently 21 years old. A white male in South Carolina, statistically, has an average life expectancy of just under 75 years. So call it 54 years laboring for the public good, that's $315,900 (a figure that does not account for pay increase, inflation, or anything other than the math you see here) in his expected lifetime, the product of 175,500 hours of work.

Would you find this satisfying?

[Iron Dynasty]

I can read alot of people calling the death penality cruel and inhumane. In my opinion, this also fits the american prison system. The guard dogs get better food then the prisoners, the real person in power are the gangs and they can hurt you without you even have a chance of reporting them (if you rattle, you get killed).

Forced work is not working as you expect, guards cannot punish them for being lazy or incompetent on the job (not officially at least) and can only reward those, who do a good job, so most prison state farms are still in the red.

On the other hand, death penalty is costing alot too and this is mainly for the kind of killing and the long time between the judge´s decision and the actual kill.

So there are basically two ways we can go in my opinion:

First we make the death sentence more efficiently. We wait until all the instances are played through or the prisoner gave up, then a good meal, a short walk to the Guillotine and gone with his head. The most costly part on that is to clean up afterwards.

Second, we actually strip him of his human rights and slave him away until he dies. This way, the state can actually make money off of him, but this can be pretty dangerous, especially in the hand of USA *looks to the coast of Kuba...*

I would still think, that a quick death penality would be the most humane. Even when you come free after 18 years as murderer from state prison, your life would be still over. Justice is to have a sharp blade in that case. And as a boon, the state can sell the organs of the prisoner.

[Risottia]

As much as I loathe the death penalty, at least it seems consistent, given how Dzhokar Tsarnaev was sentenced to death for participating in the killing of three people, while Dylann Roof is the only executor of the killing of nine people. Unlike James Eagan Holmes, the sole killer of twelve people, who was sentenced to life in jail.

I wonder why they aren't charging him with terrorism, though.

If it were taken into federal hands it would be a terrorism case, but given the state has control of it, and again our laws aren't exactly the best I suppose we will have to make due. You aren't the first to ask this question however.

So a federal court can apply chapter 113a, title 18 of the US Code and a SC court can't?
This looks so WEIRD to my Napoleonic-civil law-self.

[Risottia]

I think he should be freed.

Why?

[Uxupox]

I think he should be freed.

Why?

Ignore the troll.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I would prefer it if he rotted in prison for the rest of his life, but i wont be shedding any tears for him.

I think he should be freed.

Why?

Yeah, im sure this will be great.

[Caracasus]

The man in question committed a terrible act of violence, both against those he killed and against his society. I can completely understand why people think he should die for it, and though I'd like to think I'd be able to argue against his death penalty if I was a family member of one of those he shot, I do not know if I could be that forgiving.

However, he should not be put to death. One more death really solves very little.

[Risottia]

Why?

Ignore the troll.

Do not trollname. If you think that post constitutes trolling, report it in Moderation. Merely voicing an impopular opinion does not constitute trolling per se, though.

[Iron Dynasty]

The man in question committed a terrible act of violence, both against those he killed and against his society. I can completely understand why people think he should die for it, and though I'd like to think I'd be able to argue against his death penalty if I was a family member of one of those he shot, I do not know if I could be that forgiving.

However, he should not be put to death. One more death really solves very little.

Well, not in the grand scheme of life but technically I doubt the guy will do it again after death sentence...