Abortion: Pro-Choice or Pro-Life?

[Republic of Mezoamerican States]

If God didn't want us to have abortions then why did he make us smart enough to do them so easily?

If God didn't want us to commit murder, why did he make people so easy to kill?

[Vorond]

If God didn't want us to have abortions then why did he make us smart enough to do them so easily?

If God didn't want us to commit murder, why did he make people so easy to kill?

The devil did it.

[Alvecia]

Suppose I pierced your ear without you asking me to. Does that constitute harm?
Suppose I pierced your ear after you asked me to. Does that constitute harm?

Suppose I asked you to and you did, but I regret it later, can I kill you?

In that analogy, the piercing is the foetus.
You can try and kill it of you want, bit you'd have a hard job of it.

[Czechanada]

If God didn't want us to have abortions then why did he make us smart enough to do them so easily?

If God didn't want us to commit murder, why did he make people so easy to kill?

If God didn't want murder to happen, why did he do it himself?

[Ashmoria]

If God didn't want us to have abortions then why did he make us smart enough to do them so easily?

If God didn't want us to commit murder, why did he make people so easy to kill?

"god" kills far more "babies" every year than abortion ever does. I think he must be OK with it.

[Razgriskm]

The difference between bodily liberty in form of say, purging your stomach because it is plagued with food poisoning or whatever the case, and abortion is that one case is entirely medical and only endangers the patient. The other is directly poisoning the natural response to having drunk sex with your Ex a month ago without protection. Next time, just wear something over it instead of killing your kids. It's a lot easier, trust me.

Contraceptives fail, rape happens, some wanted pregnancies have to be aborted for medical reasons.

In general though, why a woman It's getting an abortion or whether or not she used contraception isnt any of your business.

>Disagree

[Alvecia]

Contraceptives fail, rape happens, some wanted pregnancies have to be aborted for medical reasons.

In general though, why a woman It's getting an abortion or whether or not she used contraception isnt any of your business.

>Disagree

Elaborate.
Do you disagree that contraceptives fail? This is objectively true.
Do you disagree that rape happens? This is objectively true.
Do you disagree that some wanted pregnancies have to be aborted for medical reasons? This is objectively true.
Do you disagree that this is none of your business? If so, please explain how it is your business.

[Ashmoria]

Contraceptives fail, rape happens, some wanted pregnancies have to be aborted for medical reasons.

In general though, why a woman It's getting an abortion or whether or not she used contraception isnt any of your business.

>Disagree

a woman you don't know is aborting a pregnancy you don't know exists. how can it be any of your business?

[Wallenburg]

If God didn't want us to commit murder, why did he make people so easy to kill?

The devil did it.

The Devil created man? No wonder God kills so many of us...

[Godular]

Suppose I pierced your ear without you asking me to. Does that constitute harm?
Suppose I pierced your ear after you asked me to. Does that constitute harm?

Suppose I asked you to and you did, but I regret it later, can I kill you?

False equivalence. If you later regret the piercing, you can just let the damn thing heal.

[Godular]

Contraceptives fail, rape happens, some wanted pregnancies have to be aborted for medical reasons.

In general though, why a woman It's getting an abortion or whether or not she used contraception isnt any of your business.

>Disagree

Too bad.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The difference between bodily liberty in form of say, purging your stomach because it is plagued with food poisoning or whatever the case, and abortion is that one case is entirely medical and only endangers the patient. The other is directly poisoning the natural response to having drunk sex with your Ex a month ago without protection. Next time, just wear something over it instead of killing your kids. It's a lot easier, trust me.

Condoms fail so it's not just a matter of covering dicks with condoms.

Also, you must not know about women who use caustic acid to perform abortions on themselves on developing countries where abortion rights are so draconian they can't even get an abortion under any circumstances. Otherwise you would also know your entire case is wrong.

[Godular]

Incorrect. The instant the woman does not desire the pregnancy, the fetus is doing harm to her. Intent is irrelevant. Thus self-defense rules apply.

So... effects of own actions one does not desire instantly do harm. So the only difference between harm and no harm is changing ones mind?

If a woman consents to sex, then changes her mind during copulation, the man had better disengage pretty damn quick or it becomes rape.

So yes. The only difference between whether a pregnancy is a wonderful thing or a terrible ordeal is whether the woman consents to said pregnancy. And this consent can be revoked at any time.

[Liriena]

The difference between bodily liberty in form of say, purging your stomach because it is plagued with food poisoning or whatever the case, and abortion is that one case is entirely medical and only endangers the patient. The other is directly poisoning the natural response to having drunk sex with your Ex a month ago without protection. Next time, just wear something over it instead of killing your kids. It's a lot easier, trust me.

Condoms fail so it's not just a matter of covering dicks with condoms.

Also, you must not know about women who use caustic acid to perform abortions on themselves on developing countries where abortion rights are so draconian they can't even get an abortion under any circumstances. Otherwise you would also know your entire case is wrong.

Thank you.

[Alvecia]

The difference between bodily liberty in form of say, purging your stomach because it is plagued with food poisoning or whatever the case, and abortion is that one case is entirely medical and only endangers the patient. The other is directly poisoning the natural response to having drunk sex with your Ex a month ago without protection. Next time, just wear something over it instead of killing your kids. It's a lot easier, trust me.

Condoms fail so it's not just a matter of covering dicks with condoms.

Also, you must not know about women who use caustic acid to perform abortions on themselves on developing countries where abortion rights are so draconian they can't even get an abortion under any circumstances. Otherwise you would also know your entire case is wrong.

Reminds me of that John Oliver segment

"How about I tell you what I have in my kitchen and you can tell me what I can do"

[Razgriskm]

The difference between bodily liberty in form of say, purging your stomach because it is plagued with food poisoning or whatever the case, and abortion is that one case is entirely medical and only endangers the patient. The other is directly poisoning the natural response to having drunk sex with your Ex a month ago without protection. Next time, just wear something over it instead of killing your kids. It's a lot easier, trust me.

Condoms fail so it's not just a matter of covering dicks with condoms.

Also, you must not know about women who use caustic acid to perform abortions on themselves on developing countries where abortion rights are so draconian they can't even get an abortion under any circumstances. Otherwise you would also know your entire case is wrong.

Special cases exist, what is your point? I was speaking for the majority of the population who manage to not get themselves a rape baby or have that 99.99 chance of a failing condom.

[Ashmoria]

Condoms fail so it's not just a matter of covering dicks with condoms.

Also, you must not know about women who use caustic acid to perform abortions on themselves on developing countries where abortion rights are so draconian they can't even get an abortion under any circumstances. Otherwise you would also know your entire case is wrong.

Special cases exist, what is your point? I was speaking for the majority of the population who manage to not get themselves a rape baby or have that 99.99 chance of a failing condom.

the question is what are you going to do about the exceptions? say "life is unfair" and force a woman to have a rape baby or take her word for her rape or failed contraceptive and let her have an abortion?

[Razgriskm]

Special cases exist, what is your point? I was speaking for the majority of the population who manage to not get themselves a rape baby or have that 99.99 chance of a failing condom.

the question is what are you going to do about the exceptions? say "life is unfair" and force a woman to have a rape baby or take her word for her rape or failed contraceptive and let her have an abortion?

Don't care about the exceptions, someone else can deal with it. Not worth the problem of the rest of the people. It's irrelevant to the bigger picture.

Special cases exist, what is your point? I was speaking for the majority of the population who manage to not get themselves a rape baby or have that 99.99 chance of a failing condom.

What the fucking shit...

Was I too harsh in my terminology? What?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Condoms fail so it's not just a matter of covering dicks with condoms.

Also, you must not know about women who use caustic acid to perform abortions on themselves on developing countries where abortion rights are so draconian they can't even get an abortion under any circumstances. Otherwise you would also know your entire case is wrong.

Special cases exist, what is your point? I was speaking for the majority of the population who manage to not get themselves a rape baby or have that 99.99 chance of a failing condom.

What the fucking shit...

[Soldati Senza Confini]

the question is what are you going to do about the exceptions? say "life is unfair" and force a woman to have a rape baby or take her word for her rape or failed contraceptive and let her have an abortion?

Don't care about the exceptions, someone else can deal with it. Not worth the problem of the rest of the people. It's irrelevant to the bigger picture.

The law actually has to care about the exceptions, because life is not so black-and-white.

There's gazillions of exceptions which happen every day when it comes to sex and pregnancy which, put together, make a sizeable percentage of the population.

[Ardavia]

Condoms fail so it's not just a matter of covering dicks with condoms.

Also, you must not know about women who use caustic acid to perform abortions on themselves on developing countries where abortion rights are so draconian they can't even get an abortion under any circumstances. Otherwise you would also know your entire case is wrong.

Special cases exist, what is your point? I was speaking for the majority of the population who manage to not get themselves a rape baby or have that 99.99 chance of a failing condom.

So, what should we tell to those whose contraception fails? "Sorry, despite taking all reasonable precautions (or because some jackass decided to rape you), you got pregnant, so you get to enjoy nine months of pain and suffering (at least a third of which you can't work during) before being saddled, for eighteen plus years, with a dependent you were never prepared for, thus completely fucking over you and all your plans for your life because THAT POOR BABBY NEEDS TO BE PROTECTED!11!"

[Soldati Senza Confini]

the question is what are you going to do about the exceptions? say "life is unfair" and force a woman to have a rape baby or take her word for her rape or failed contraceptive and let her have an abortion?

Don't care about the exceptions, someone else can deal with it. Not worth the problem of the rest of the people. It's irrelevant to the bigger picture.

What the fucking shit...

Was I too harsh in my terminology? What?

Do you even understand rape?

[Razgriskm]

Don't care about the exceptions, someone else can deal with it. Not worth the problem of the rest of the people. It's irrelevant to the bigger picture.

The law actually has to care about the exceptions, because life is not so black-and-white.

There's gazillions of exceptions which happen every day when it comes to sex and pregnancy which, put together, make a sizeable percentage of the population.

The law does not ban swimming because people drown when swimming. That's silly. As for the large portion put together, I suppose you could somehow prove to me that more than 10% of the population alive today is the product of a broken condom or rape? I'll cede the point obviously if you can. Otherwise it is just acceptable loss to me.

Don't care about the exceptions, someone else can deal with it. Not worth the problem of the rest of the people. It's irrelevant to the bigger picture.


Was I too harsh in my terminology? What?

Do you even understand rape?

Absolutely, why?

[Razgriskm]

Special cases exist, what is your point? I was speaking for the majority of the population who manage to not get themselves a rape baby or have that 99.99 chance of a failing condom.

So, what should we tell to those whose contraception fails? "Sorry, despite taking all reasonable precautions (or because some jackass decided to rape you), you got pregnant, so you get to enjoy nine months of pain and suffering (at least a third of which you can't work during) before being saddled, for eighteen plus years, with a dependent you were never prepared for, thus completely fucking over you and all your plans for your life because THAT POOR BABBY NEEDS TO BE PROTECTED!11!"

Strawman ^

[Ashmoria]

the question is what are you going to do about the exceptions? say "life is unfair" and force a woman to have a rape baby or take her word for her rape or failed contraceptive and let her have an abortion?

Don't care about the exceptions, someone else can deal with it. Not worth the problem of the rest of the people. It's irrelevant to the bigger picture.

What the fucking shit...

Was I too harsh in my terminology? What?

no it is not irrelevant. there are thousands of rape started pregnancies in the US every year. what is the rule going to be regarding abortion for rape pregnancies. there 100thousands of pregnancies that result from bad contraceptive use. what is the rule going to be?