Abortion: Pro-Choice or Pro-Life?

[Ashmoria]

I've noticed that some of the pro-choicers here are arguing that one must either support the federal funding of Planned Parenthood or seek to shut it down. Certainly someone in America feels that Planned Parenthood does not merit receiving money from the feds while at the same time opposing its destruction?

who would that be and why in the world would they want to bar PP from federal funds? they have to meet standards just like any organization that gets federal money.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

Planned Parenthood serves a vital function in providing a place for people to recieve free contraceptives. This has been linked to an extreme decrease in teen pregnancies in areas where PP is active. Considering teens not getting pregnant = less abortions, you should support this no?

So there's no other method of distributing condoms among high school students?

Schools can (and sometimes do) provide condoms, but students going to Catholic or relgious institutions would not have access to these services. Planned Parenthood provides contraceptives to all applicants without judgement, providing an easy and safe way for the sexually active to have safe sex without risk of pregnancy. Also, its not just highschoolers - PP also helps the poor that may have trouble affording condoms when they are working menial jobs at minimum wage.

Also, defunding Planned Parenthood would seriously hurt the organization's ability to operate, as it is, in fact, a not-for-profit that relies heavily on funding so it can provide low cost reproductive care to women.

Which brings us back to the initial question: Is funding Planned Parenthood the only feasible option for ensuring that women receive quality healthcare?[/quote]

Defunding PP would be a serious blow to women's reproductive care. Considering the Federal funds don't even go towards abortions, there is really no reason to want to take away the budget item.

[Czechanada]

Why spend more money when you have a perfectly good, trusted, nationwide clinic ready to use?

People who want to shut down PP because it preforms abortions are just playing themselves. Abortions only account for 6% for their services and shutting the entire place down for that would deprive some of low-cost sexual education and help.

Normally PP says 3%, but okay. And I explained that math (which took a while to write down) all a few pages ago. Sure, it might be 3%, but it's also an enormous chunk of their income. Hundreds of millions of dollars.

And couldn't people go to other clinics for sex-ed and whatnot, theoretically?

But why shut down Planned Parenthood?

[Ardavia]

Which brings us back to the initial question: Is funding Planned Parenthood the only feasible option for ensuring that women receive quality healthcare?

No, the question is rather the opposite:

Is defunding Planned Parenthood and hence removing an existing and established major, organized, nonprofit, source of general women's healthcare in favour of smaller clinics that aren't necessarily non-profit and thus don't provide service that's as affordable, because people like you think abortions are icky, a good idea?

[Wallenburg]

Choice? You made the choice when you laid down.
And if it's rape, adoption or keep it. That child still has some of you in it, but still deserves a chance if you don't want it.

I didn't realize it depended on the sex position you were impregnated in.

[Ifreann]

I've noticed that some of the pro-choicers here are arguing that one must either support the federal funding of Planned Parenthood or seek to shut it down. Certainly someone in America feels that Planned Parenthood does not merit receiving money from the feds while at the same time opposing its destruction?

As much as those opposed to America hate Planned Parenthood and want it gone, whether it receives federal funding or not is not actually relevant to whether abortion should be permitted or not. Planned Parenthood is not the be all and end all of abortion, and America is not the entire world.

---

Normally PP says 3%, but okay. And I explained that math (which took a while to write down) all a few pages ago. Sure, it might be 3%, but it's also an enormous chunk of their income. Hundreds of millions of dollars.

And couldn't people go to other clinics for sex-ed and whatnot, theoretically?

But why shut down Planned Parenthood?

Because they perform abortions.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

1. Other clinics ARE given title x.

3. No. You literally dont undestand title x. Title X is not huge grants. Say you and i both go to get birth control on the same day. I have private insurance and i am not low income. I pay nothing out of pocket and they recieve no title x funding for me. You are uninsured and low income. You pay nothing out of pocket and they recieve title x fundibg for you ONLY IN THE AMOUNT to cover the cost of the service.
It. Is. Not. A grant.

4. Why do any of that when we could save money by not doing that?

Also no, i don't "rage and leave," i show you that youre wrong and then i go have a life that doesn't revolve around you.

1.) Okay, so I don't understand it as well as I thought. My bad. I'm not an expert on money, never said I was.

3.) Wait...okay...hm...okay, so I see now how that works. Still, tell me what "special training" one must undergo to get Title X.

4.) Because sometimes you have to spend a little money to get things done. (Though that does not necessarily mean raising taxes, it just means taking money that's being spent elsewhere and spending it on the things I just described.)

Okay, good. I would not want your life to revolve around me. That would be weird. And slightly creepy.

But anyway, I get on and talk, I don't fall-back on slogans, I try to explain myself, I ask questions when I struggle to understand something (like Title X), and I explain what I think should be done to address the problem. Mostly peacefully. I will admit I'm not always a chill person, sometimes I get very emotional myself, but I try mostly to be civil. You respond by cursing me out, by calling me a misogynist because we disagree on the means to an end, and by falling back on "my body my choice" when nothing else works.

Also, here's an interesting question I thought about on the ride to school: can social policy affect the course of the development of medicine?

The "special training" is most likely nonjudgement quality training and financial directions. But it doesn't matter and you should probably fucking drop it.

Theres no point at all in closing down perfectly good clinics (that provide steep discounts to customers and save thousands of lives with mammograms, pap smears, std testing, etc) in order to spead an ungodly amount of money to replace them with less funded clinics that might not offer the same care. This would be like Max Barry shutting down NationStates, and then opening a new website called SationNates that's similar to NS but it has 45 adverts on ebery page, its missibg half of the forums, and sometimes gameplay side demands $2.50 to continue working. And along the way he spends $50,000 to create this website. Its fucking ridiculous.

Once again, if you want a discussion with someone whose going to treat you like a toddler get someone else to do it. You come in here perched on your high horse, pretending you know anything about embryology, medicine, tax statuses, law, or people, demand to be taken seriously, and then in the face of being proving wrong you either shift the argument to "you're victimizing me!!" or simply admit you wont looknat sources that dont agree with you. I'm not going to play that game. When you're wrong, im going to let you know, and if you can't handle that you don't need to be on this thread, because just about everything you say is fucking wrong.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Why spend more money when you have a perfectly good, trusted, nationwide clinic ready to use?

People who want to shut down PP because it preforms abortions are just playing themselves. Abortions only account for 6% for their services and shutting the entire place down for that would deprive some of low-cost sexual education and help.

Normally PP says 3%, but okay. And I explained that math (which took a while to write down) all a few pages ago. Sure, it might be 3%, but it's also an enormous chunk of their income. Hundreds of millions of dollars.

And couldn't people go to other clinics for sex-ed and whatnot, theoretically?

It is 3% and once again you need to learn the difference between income,profit, and revenue.

Shutting down planned parenthood would specifically mean fewer people have access to healthcare. Once again, thats a stupid idea if you claim to want people to have health care.

Okay, but besides that: it's already been explained that to receive government funding you need to fit a certain criteria. Not all small businesses fit that and can't receive title x funding. I'm searching right now for non-PP organizations and companies that do get title x.

That is helpful. Thank you.

Did you come up with anything yet? Or no?

Considering that only about 1/4-1/3 of title x recipients are pp clients, yeah there are a fuckton out there.

they apply for it and get it. it may be that those other clinics don't provide the same menu of services that PP does.

PP doesn't do mammograms, among other things. So no, most clinics do more than what they do, with the exception of abortions.

Mammograms is one of the biggest services PP offers, once again wtf are you taking about?

I've noticed that some of the pro-choicers here are arguing that one must either support the federal funding of Planned Parenthood or seek to shut it down. Certainly someone in America feels that Planned Parenthood does not merit receiving money from the feds while at the same time opposing its destruction?

PP operates on a "if you have low income we will make sure you still get health care" platform. Thats their entire mission, providibg care regardless of how much money you have. It NEEDS federal funding to accomplish this. If you stop funding, PP cannot continue without dramatically raising prices, which means it can't satisfy its own mission. No funding = no PP.

[Mavorpen]

PP operates on a "if you have low income we will make sure you still get health care" platform. Thats their entire mission, providibg care regardless of how much money you have. It NEEDS federal funding to accomplish this. If you stop funding, PP cannot continue without dramatically raising prices, which means it can't satisfy its own mission. No funding = no PP.

In fact, their revenue is typically lower than their expenses. And that's INCLUDING Government Health Services Grants & Reimbursements. They literally cannot function without government funding.

For fucks sake, this only requires taking like 3 minutes at the most to Google this stuff.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

PP operates on a "if you have low income we will make sure you still get health care" platform. Thats their entire mission, providibg care regardless of how much money you have. It NEEDS federal funding to accomplish this. If you stop funding, PP cannot continue without dramatically raising prices, which means it can't satisfy its own mission. No funding = no PP.

In fact, their revenue is typically lower than their expenses. And that's INCLUDING Government Health Services Grants & Reimbursements. They literally cannot function without government funding.

For fucks sake, this only requires taking like 3 minutes at the most to Google this stuff.

Why google when you can pretend the words coming out of your ass describe how the world works?

[Stellonia]

Mammograms is one of the biggest services PP offers, once again wtf are you taking about?

Cecile Richards, the president of Planned Parenthood, herself concedes that that is not the case.

[Mavorpen]

Mammograms is one of the biggest services PP offers, once again wtf are you taking about?

Cecile Richards, the president of Planned Parenthood, herself concedes that that is not the case.

Wait, what? She didn't say they actually have those machines. Through PP you obtain an appropriate referral, and in many cases a grant, to a low cost clinic that DOES have them.

Stagnant is 100% correct. A shit ton of women wouldn't have access to mammograms without PP.

[Stellonia]

Cecile Richards, the president of Planned Parenthood, herself concedes that that is not the case.

Wait, what? She didn't say they actually have those machines. Through PP you obtain an appropriate referral to a low cost clinic that DOES have them.

Stagnant is 100% correct. A shit ton of women wouldn't have access to mammograms without PP.

She said "mammograms," not "mammogram referrals." And can't a quick Google search provide mammogram referrals? If you were to Google "[your city] mammograms," I'm certain that you'd find something.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Wait, what? She didn't say they actually have those machines. Through PP you obtain an appropriate referral to a low cost clinic that DOES have them.

Stagnant is 100% correct. A shit ton of women wouldn't have access to mammograms without PP.

She said "mammograms," not "mammogram referrals." And can't a quick Google search provide mammogram referrals? If you were to Google "[your city] mammograms," I'm certain that you'd find something.

You might not be able to find the low cost clinics, which are often not very well advertised and don't have websites. Also, planned parenthood first does breadt exams, and refers those who exhibit signs of abnormality or those who request it. Which means, guess what, women still have their lives saved because of the breast exams.

[Mavorpen]

She said "mammograms," not "mammogram referrals."

There's literally no reason to nitpick this unless you have no knowledge about this subject. Which you've already demonstrated is the case on your part.

And can't a quick Google search provide mammogram referrals? If you were to Google "[your city] mammograms," I'm certain that you'd find something.

That...that's not how that fucking works. When you go to a PP clinic, they offer low cost breast exams and checkups. Then, based on your risk factor and the results of your exams, they can refer you to a specialist and even assist you in obtaining a grant. If you DON'T go to PP, you'd most likely be stuck with a doctor visit that could very well significantly hurt your wallet, and yet you want to screw over these low-income women because PP is "icky"? Fuck that shit.

[Vaticantopia]

Pro-life, because if women can't be responsible in the bedroom, they need to pay for their mistakes (First trimester is okay, second onward is murder).

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Wait, what? She didn't say they actually have those machines. Through PP you obtain an appropriate referral to a low cost clinic that DOES have them.

Stagnant is 100% correct. A shit ton of women wouldn't have access to mammograms without PP.

She said "mammograms," not "mammogram referrals." And can't a quick Google search provide mammogram referrals? If you were to Google "[your city] mammograms," I'm certain that you'd find something.

In addition to mammogram referrals, the group says it helps low-income patients find grants and assistance to pay for mammograms, such as through the National Breast and Cervical Cancer Early Detection Program, which is for women at or below 250 percent of the federal poverty level. Planned Parenthood of Western Pennsylvania also has a Breast Health Care Fund, which helps patients obtain mammograms. Individual clinics also may occasionally sponsor no-cost mammogram events — for instance, on Oct. 19, Planned Parenthood of Nassau County, N.Y., plans to sponsor free mammograms at a mammography van at the health center. In south-central New York, a state program parks its mobile van outside two Planned Parenthood clinics.
In a statement sent to FactCheck.org, Dr. Deborah Nucatola, senior director of medical services for Planned Parenthood, said that “Planned Parenthood does help women nationwide get access to mammograms,” as part of the health care services it provides to nearly 3 million persons each year. “Women rely on Planned Parenthood for referrals for and financial help with mammograms and specialized diagnostic follow-up tests (like ultrasounds and biopsies) when indicated by age, history and/or clinical breast exam.”
Nucatola said that “for many women,” Planned Parenthood is their only health care provider and “thus the only way they will get a referral for a mammogram.”

[Mavorpen]

She said "mammograms," not "mammogram referrals." And can't a quick Google search provide mammogram referrals? If you were to Google "[your city] mammograms," I'm certain that you'd find something.

You might not be able to find the low cost clinics, which are often not very well advertised and don't have websites. Also, planned parenthood first does breadt exams, and refers those who exhibit signs of abnormality or those who request it. Which means, guess what, women still have their lives saved because of the breast exams.

This.

Most women aren't going to just spend ~$100 for a mammogram every time they want to get a simple checkup. Hence they go to PP, receive an exam and checkup, and then if there's an issue, they get a referral to a low cost clinic that offers mammograms.

[Wallenburg]

Pro-life, because if women can't be responsible in the bedroom, they need to pay for their mistakes (First trimester is okay, second onward is murder).

Pregnancy as punishment. Wonderful.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Pro-life, because if women can't be responsible in the bedroom, they need to pay for their mistakes (First trimester is okay, second onward is murder).

So women should be punished with biological enslavement and children? I didnt know having sex was a crime that you could lose the rights to your body over.

[Kelinfort]

Choice? You made the choice when you laid down.
And if it's rape, adoption or keep it. That child still has some of you in it, but still deserves a chance if you don't want it.

I agree, we shouldn't provide medical attention to people in car accidents.

[Khadgar]

Pro-life, because if women can't be responsible in the bedroom, they need to pay for their mistakes (First trimester is okay, second onward is murder).

Punish those whores eh?

[Kelinfort]

Pro-life, because if women can't be responsible in the bedroom, they need to pay for their mistakes (First trimester is okay, second onward is murder).

Let me get this straight, it's on women to be wholly responsible for what happens in the bedroom? Contraception and all? And abortion isn't a responsible choice? In fact, it may be the most responsible choice on many occasions.

I don't see why the first trimester isn't killing, but the second is a killing. Seems rather arbitrary.

[Ifreann]

Mammograms is one of the biggest services PP offers, once again wtf are you taking about?

Cecile Richards, the president of Planned Parenthood, herself concedes that that is not the case.

Well in that case obviously abortion should be illegal.

[Khadgar]

Pro-life, because if women can't be responsible in the bedroom, they need to pay for their mistakes (First trimester is okay, second onward is murder).

Let me get this straight, it's on women to be wholly responsible for what happens in the bedroom? Contraception and all? And abortion isn't a responsible choice? In fact, it may be the most responsible choice on many occasions.

I don't see why the first trimester isn't killing, but the second is a killing. Seems rather arbitrary.

The Bible is very specific about this actually. You're not alive until you take your first breath, before that the penalty for forcing a miscarriage accidentally is a fine, but priests can abort babies with MAGIC! And the best part is if the spell works it's the woman's fault.