Best place for Libertarian colonization?

[Stellonia]

There aren't many places left in the world for people to establish nation states. Where do you think would be the best place for Libertarians to go in order to establish a new nation? I'm not talking about micronations or citystates either, I mean a full blown, brand new country. I've always thought Sakhalin would be an interesting option, if things go really poorly in Russia and the whole country starts to collapse or tip into civil war it would theoretically be possible for a fairly small group of colonists to seize control of the island. Another option would be Borneo, I'm not sure how the locals there would react to Libertarianism but said colonists could probably encourage separatist sentiments in both the Malaysian part and the Indonesian part of the island, they could also retreat into the jungle on the center of island when things get tough. Now, realistically I don't think this would work because Libertarians are opposed to violence and as such guerrilla warfare wouldn't be a reasonable means of state creation for them but it's fun to speculate about.

The sun.
*nods*

Problem is, you can only live there at night.

[Jute]

At least "Property is theft" has a reasoning and arguments behind it.

Don't feed the trolls.

No, I'm serious. "Property is theft" makes at least more sense than "Taxation is theft". You might not agree, but at least the reasoning is more sound.

[Deuxtete]

Mars

[Jute]

Someone just finished reading Atlas Shrugged.

Atlas Shrugged. It has the distinction of being the longest, and arguably the best, train fanfic ever written.

(source)

[MERIZoC]

Isn't it supposed to be New Hampshire?

[Stellonia]

Don't feed the trolls.

No, I'm serious. "Property is theft" makes at least more sense than "Taxation is theft". You might not agree, but at least the reasoning is more sound.

Please provide your reasoning.

[Jute]

No, I'm serious. "Property is theft" makes at least more sense than "Taxation is theft". You might not agree, but at least the reasoning is more sound.

Please provide your reasoning.

http://world.std.com/~mhuben/faq.html#theft

Isn't it supposed to be New Hampshire?

Yes

[Hollorous]

Kind of an icy wasteland. Also, Denmark would probably have something to say about that.

Assuming that Libertarians WERE willing to use force, perhaps they could become modern day filibusterers and march into some sparsely populated areas of Mexico and take over. The Mexican army is ill equipped to deal with an insurgency and if you had the right administration in office in the U.S. it is possible that America wouldn't do anything.

1) As others have pointed out, the Mexican army is actually very equipped to deal with that problem.

2) The Filibusters are a terrible example for your point. With little exception, the Mexicans wiped them all out. You see, they were a bit crabby after losing the Mexican-American War, so...

3) Just taking over another country's area, assuming you even could in a country as powerful as Mexico (which, really, only looks weak in comparison because it's sitting right next to the USA), is a tasty recipe for getting on the shitlist of pretty much every country in the world. Hardly anyone will want to trade with you or help you in anyway.

[Trotskylvania]

There aren't many places left in the world for people to establish nation states. Where do you think would be the best place for Libertarians to go in order to establish a new nation?

The best chance is that libertarian ideas will become popular enough with the intellectuals in a particular nation that those ideas will be taught to college students and spread throughout the culture.

There is no place on Earth where libertarians can successfully establish a new nation. It must be an ideological revolution within an established nation. Sorry to be a wet blanket.

Otherwise, maybe libertarians can settle Titan and gain a large share of the Saturnian Helium-3 market. Lots of potential for profit there. They could become the Norway of the Solar System.

Capitalism and the free market cannot survive in space.

You cannot rely upon all the free labor done by the Earth's biosphere. You have to meticulously recreate it in order to just keep breathing. Every aspect of economic activity must be planned or you will die.

[New Grestin]

You know, now that I think about it, maybe sending the Libertarians to the Moon is a bit too close for comfort.

Tell me, how do you feel about the moons of Jupiter?

We can send you a supply crate that's just chock full of copies of Atlas Shrugged and whatever other crap Rand wrote, free of charge.

[Dumb Ideologies]

The internal organs of a giant space-unicorn. Keep it as realistic as the rest of the philosophy.

[BK117B2]

Don't feed the trolls.

No, I'm serious. "Property is theft" makes at least more sense than "Taxation is theft". You might not agree, but at least the reasoning is more sound.

Not really. Laboring to produce something and then keeping it does not necessitate taking something from someone else. Taxation DOES.

[BK117B2]

Please provide your reasoning.

http://world.std.com/~mhuben/faq.html#theft

Certainly very humorous, but not very reasoned.

[Jute]

No, I'm serious. "Property is theft" makes at least more sense than "Taxation is theft". You might not agree, but at least the reasoning is more sound.

Not really. Laboring to produce something and then keeping it does not necessitate taking something from someone else. Taxation DOES.

You use the state's services every day from the beginning of your life to the end, and don't tell me you would choose otherwise if you could, because unless you want to live as a hermit in the forest, you do depend on them. So tell me how not paying reasonable taxes isn't jerkish misbehavior, if not a flat-out crime?
Also: https://www.quora.com/Why-isnt-taxation-stealing

[BK117B2]

The best chance is that libertarian ideas will become popular enough with the intellectuals in a particular nation that those ideas will be taught to college students and spread throughout the culture.

There is no place on Earth where libertarians can successfully establish a new nation. It must be an ideological revolution within an established nation. Sorry to be a wet blanket.

Otherwise, maybe libertarians can settle Titan and gain a large share of the Saturnian Helium-3 market. Lots of potential for profit there. They could become the Norway of the Solar System.

Capitalism and the free market cannot survive in space.

You cannot rely upon all the free labor done by the Earth's biosphere. You have to meticulously recreate it in order to just keep breathing. Every aspect of economic activity must be planned or you will die.

Right now, humanity cannot survive beyond Earth, only visit for short periods.

When the ability to actually survive exists, then the ability for capitalism and a free market will exist.

[Jute]

http://world.std.com/~mhuben/faq.html#theft

Certainly very humorous, but not very reasoned.

Certainly you can logically prove it wrong? I mean, surely you will take the time to become familiar with the political theory behind it, and then explain what's wrong with it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_is_theft!

[Big Jim P]

Well, some Texans want independence so that might work.

[Jute]

Well, some Texans want independence so that might work.

Texan independence isn't really likely, is it?

[Big Jim P]

Well, some Texans want independence so that might work.

Texan independence isn't really likely, is it?

No. Nor is a Libertarian nation.

[New Grestin]

Well, some Texans want independence so that might work.

Yes, and I'm sure that John Wayne himself will rise from the grave to lead the Libertarians to a new paradise.

[Threlizdun]

It's truly telling that "libertarians" could possibly associate anything good with the word "colonization".

Capitalism and the free market cannot survive in space.

You cannot rely upon all the free labor done by the Earth's biosphere. You have to meticulously recreate it in order to just keep breathing. Every aspect of economic activity must be planned or you will die.

Right now, humanity cannot survive beyond Earth, only visit for short periods.

When the ability to actually survive exists, then the ability for capitalism and a free market will exist.

No, when the ability to survive in space exists, technology would have to have advanced to such a degree that an anachronism such as the capitalist demand for wage labor and private property will be infeasible.

[BK117B2]

Not really. Laboring to produce something and then keeping it does not necessitate taking something from someone else. Taxation DOES.

You use the state's services every day from the beginning of your life to the end, and don't tell me you would choose otherwise if you could, because unless you want to live as a hermit in the forest, you do depend on them. So tell me how not paying reasonable taxes isn't jerkish misbehavior, if not a flat-out crime?
Also: https://www.quora.com/Why-isnt-taxation-stealing

Taxing in exchange for services provided is fine. I enjoy a number of government services, and I am quite comfortable with the level of taxation needed to sustain them.

This does not alter the fact that there are other people who do not want to participate in such an exchange.

[Big Jim P]

Well, some Texans want independence so that might work.

Yes, and I'm sure that John Wayne himself will rise from the grave to lead the Libertarians to a new paradise.

Let me find my VooDoo kit and we will see.

[New Grestin]

Yes, and I'm sure that John Wayne himself will rise from the grave to lead the Libertarians to a new paradise.

Let me find my VooDoo kit and we will see. :p

Can you get Teddy Roosevelt too?

That would be some silly shit.

[Jute]

You use the state's services every day from the beginning of your life to the end, and don't tell me you would choose otherwise if you could, because unless you want to live as a hermit in the forest, you do depend on them. So tell me how not paying reasonable taxes isn't jerkish misbehavior, if not a flat-out crime?
Also: https://www.quora.com/Why-isnt-taxation-stealing

Taxing in exchange for services provided is fine. I enjoy a number of government services, and I am quite comfortable with the level of taxation needed to sustain them.

This does not alter the fact that there are other people who do not want to participate in such an exchange.

Well, if they don't work, don't live on a property etc. then they don't have many taxes to pay, do they? And if they do, they probably need or enjoy a number of government services again. Even the hermit in the forest can take advantage of the defense and law & order services provided.