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Best place for Libertarian colonization?

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The Free and Virtuous
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Best place for Libertarian colonization?

Postby The Free and Virtuous » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:15 am

There aren't many places left in the world for people to establish nation states. Where do you think would be the best place for Libertarians to go in order to establish a new nation? I'm not talking about micronations or citystates either, I mean a full blown, brand new country. I've always thought Sakhalin would be an interesting option, if things go really poorly in Russia and the whole country starts to collapse or tip into civil war it would theoretically be possible for a fairly small group of colonists to seize control of the island. Another option would be Borneo, I'm not sure how the locals there would react to Libertarianism but said colonists could probably encourage separatist sentiments in both the Malaysian part and the Indonesian part of the island, they could also retreat into the jungle on the center of island when things get tough. Now, realistically I don't think this would work because Libertarians are opposed to violence and as such guerrilla warfare wouldn't be a reasonable means of state creation for them but it's fun to speculate about. ;)
Last edited by The Free and Virtuous on Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Gig em Aggies
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Postby Gig em Aggies » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:20 am

The only way for you to get a full blown nation is on one of the many uninhabited islands in the worlds oceans as most land is already claimed by one or more countries and theirs no way to get land let's say Russia's saklin island without armed conflict. Plus you won't be recognized as a full nation unless you get endorsed by some nations and go through some type of check list to becoming a nation. Otherwise you'll just be considered one of the many hundreds of nation states.
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Postby Yedmnrutika Gavr » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:22 am

eventually a large group of libertarians somewhere in the world might break free from their parent nation and when/if that happens it would be a little more plausible since there would already be existing infrastructure.
Last edited by Yedmnrutika Gavr on Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Bassoe » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:23 am

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Postby Costa Fierro » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:23 am

Somalia?
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Hyfling
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Postby Hyfling » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:34 am

The only places that no nation has claims on are Bir Tawil (scorching desert) and West Antarctica (a frozen wasteland).

As you can see, all the best places are taken.
Last edited by Hyfling on Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby New Grestin » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:39 am

I mean, I'm not saying that sending Libertarians to the moon is a bad idea, but there is a lot of unclaimed real estate.

I'm sure the prices are pretty low too. Lack of oxygen really kills the property value, not to mention the Space Nazis.
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The Free and Virtuous
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Postby The Free and Virtuous » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:39 am

Another option in the event of a full blown Russian collapse would be the Kaliningrad region, although Germany might want that back if Russia fell apart.

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Postby Shy Guyia » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:44 am

If you are very lucky, a new island can be formed by volcanic activity, for example the icelandic island Surtsey...
Or even colonize parts of the moon...
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Postby Gauthier » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:48 am

Didn't someone try to set up Galt's Gulch in South America already?
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Postby Immoren » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:57 am

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The Free and Virtuous
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Postby The Free and Virtuous » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:58 am

Actually, what about Greenland? They have a bunch of unused land, couldn't libertarians move in there? With how small Greenland is I doubt they could even do much to stop them.

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Postby Meridiani Planum » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:59 am

The Free and Virtuous wrote:There aren't many places left in the world for people to establish nation states. Where do you think would be the best place for Libertarians to go in order to establish a new nation?


The best chance is that libertarian ideas will become popular enough with the intellectuals in a particular nation that those ideas will be taught to college students and spread throughout the culture.

There is no place on Earth where libertarians can successfully establish a new nation. It must be an ideological revolution within an established nation. Sorry to be a wet blanket.

Otherwise, maybe libertarians can settle Titan and gain a large share of the Saturnian Helium-3 market. Lots of potential for profit there. They could become the Norway of the Solar System.
Last edited by Meridiani Planum on Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby New Ogunquit » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:06 am

The Free and Virtuous wrote:Actually, what about Greenland? They have a bunch of unused land, couldn't libertarians move in there? With how small Greenland is I doubt they could even do much to stop them.

Kind of an icy wasteland. Also, Denmark would probably have something to say about that.
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Postby Immoren » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:13 am

The Free and Virtuous wrote:Actually, what about Greenland? They have a bunch of unused land, couldn't libertarians move in there? With how small Greenland is I doubt they could even do much to stop them.


Colonies under the ice?
Sort of like dwarfs of fantasy.
Libertarian dwarfs.
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The Free and Virtuous
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Postby The Free and Virtuous » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:15 am

New Ogunquit wrote:
The Free and Virtuous wrote:Actually, what about Greenland? They have a bunch of unused land, couldn't libertarians move in there? With how small Greenland is I doubt they could even do much to stop them.

Kind of an icy wasteland. Also, Denmark would probably have something to say about that.

Assuming that Libertarians WERE willing to use force, perhaps they could become modern day filibusterers and march into some sparsely populated areas of Mexico and take over. The Mexican army is ill equipped to deal with an insurgency and if you had the right administration in office in the U.S. it is possible that America wouldn't do anything.

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AiliailiA
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Postby AiliailiA » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:52 am

There are many unoccupied islands, but all of them (afaik) are in sea territory claimed by some nation or else in sea like the Antarctic protected by treaty from human colonization.

Make your own island perhaps. In the Pacific and probably other oceans, there are very shallow areas where dumping a few million tons of rock and earth would make a new island. Two problems: firstly, it would cost a lot of money to do that, and secondly the shallow areas often have coral or other marine life which would be fubar'd by dumping rock and earth on them. Expect nations, with troublesome things like navies, to stop you doing that or to take it away from you after you've done it, and don't expect a groundswell of popular support for your project.

Move to some country with very weak (and/or corrupt) government, buy a lot of land, and secede. Not a "Libertarian purity" option, since by doing that you are in fact declaring a state. Also, it's quite unlikely that seceding would succeed: even a weak and corrupt government can see the benefit of letting their common criminals and their upstart secessionists fight it out between them. Two birds with one stone y'know.

Find territory between two countries which is claimed by neither. This won't be an island, be sure of that. It will only be a desolate and landlocked area, like The Kingdom of North Sudan. Nice present for a little girl, but let's not pretend it's a place the "princess" would actually chose to live.

Maybe you have relatives who have lived in the same area for thousands of years. This frankly is your best chance of "libertarian colonization". You could get land without paying for it, and you could get a degree of self-government, if you have family and community descended from the people who lived there and were dispossessed by actual colonialism.

"A degree of self government" isn't all this kind of "Libertarian" dreams of. They dream of full self-government (which if it's a private dream, is literally no government). Gaining the legal title to land (without buying it) and gaining a small degree of self-government beyond what other people have on their privately owned land, is however the very most they could reasonably achieve.

As a cynic once said to me, when I was in my anarchist phase of youthful idealism: "if you want freedom, you have to buy it."
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New Ogunquit
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Postby New Ogunquit » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:59 am

The Free and Virtuous wrote:
New Ogunquit wrote:Kind of an icy wasteland. Also, Denmark would probably have something to say about that.

Assuming that Libertarians WERE willing to use force, perhaps they could become modern day filibusterers and march into some sparsely populated areas of Mexico and take over. The Mexican army is ill equipped to deal with an insurgency and if you had the right administration in office in the U.S. it is possible that America wouldn't do anything.

I'm fairly certain they'd get around to stomping them out, and none of that guarantees they'd even be able to have any influence or even be recognized by any other nation. I think you're going too fast here. Baby steps, start with New Hampshire.
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Geilinor wrote:Get off your high horse.

It's more of a high pony, really.

Ifreann wrote:Farn be locking threads like they were bridges.
Ifreann wrote:Political correctness needs to go further, because the tears of people crying over being called on their bullshit fuel my time machine.


Quintium wrote:Just another symptom of self-hatred in Western Europe and North America. Don't worry, it'll all end in war. But for the moment, try not to be too white if you don't want to be discriminated against.

Yes, more tears...
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Ifreann wrote:Not really. The Predator wouldn't bother fighting a baby.

It would if it had a sharp stick

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Postby Jute » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:01 am

The Free and Virtuous wrote:Another option in the event of a full blown Russian collapse would be the Kaliningrad region, although Germany might want that back if Russia fell apart.

Why would they? It's not like there are many Germans left there.
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Postby Hurdegaryp » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:03 am

The Free and Virtuous wrote:Actually, what about Greenland? They have a bunch of unused land, couldn't libertarians move in there? With how small Greenland is I doubt they could even do much to stop them.

Libertarian adventurers, meet the Danish armed forces. You have trespassed and shall be taken care of according to the laws of the Danish kingdom.
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Jute
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Postby Jute » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:08 am

Hurdegaryp wrote:
The Free and Virtuous wrote:Actually, what about Greenland? They have a bunch of unused land, couldn't libertarians move in there? With how small Greenland is I doubt they could even do much to stop them.

Libertarian adventurers, meet the Danish armed forces. You have trespassed and shall be taken care of according to the laws of the Danish kingdom.

Also there are already natives there. And it's the biggest freaking island in the world, why would you call it "small"? It's bigger than the entire UK.
Italios wrote:Jute's probably some sort of Robin Hood-type outlaw
Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages,
when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling,
that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...The notion that science
and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
"A rejection of all philosophy is in itself philosophy."

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Postby Hurdegaryp » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:10 am

Jute wrote:
Hurdegaryp wrote:Libertarian adventurers, meet the Danish armed forces. You have trespassed and shall be taken care of according to the laws of the Danish kingdom.

Also there are already natives there. And it's the biggest freaking island in the world, why would you call it "small"? It's bigger than the entire UK.

It's not as if libertarianism is known as a movement that cares about actual facts.
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.

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Jute
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Postby Jute » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:13 am

Hurdegaryp wrote:
Jute wrote:Also there are already natives there. And it's the biggest freaking island in the world, why would you call it "small"? It's bigger than the entire UK.

It's not as if libertarianism is known as a movement that cares about actual facts.

Or arguments questioning the movement's philosophy.
Last edited by Jute on Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Italios wrote:Jute's probably some sort of Robin Hood-type outlaw
Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages,
when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling,
that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...The notion that science
and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
"A rejection of all philosophy is in itself philosophy."

Check out the Jutean language! Talk to me about anything. Avian air force flag (Source) Definition of atheism Is Religion Dangerous?

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Postby L Ron Cupboard » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:17 am

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Postby Communes of Europe » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:19 am

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