Kentucky County Clerk Denies Gay Marriage Licenses

[Deuxtete]

Ugh this annoys me so much. You can't throw someone in jail to practice their religion. Read the Bill if Rights please. If you have an issue with it, GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY. No one wants you here anyway.

She wasnt jailed "to" practice her religion, or even for practicing her religion. She was jailed for contempt, she was held in contempt for failing to comply with the judges orders, the order was to execute her legal duties as an agent of the state and not infringe on the civil rights of others.
The bill of rights doesn't afford her the right as an agent of the state to use religion as reason to violate the civil rights of another, as a matter of fact it doesn't provide anyone the right to violate the civil rights of another. So get the fuck out of my country...since you obviously can't be bothered to learn even the most remedial facts about the liberty you clearly would see shit on.

[Mondoncon]

Marriage has changed in definition enough times that your argument is, shall we say... A thousand years dead.

Define marriage then. Where do you go for marriages, and who marries you? A church. And a priest. What do those things involve, sir? RELIGION

You're talking about weddings, because marriage is between two people and the state. Through a clerk. Which is what Kim Davis is. You have no idea how funny this is.

[Vaikneland]

Where does the constitution say that it doesn't apply in the workforce?

The Constitution always mentions the government.

WORK. FORCE. Generally. Yes she was in the government, but it doesn't say "you have religious freedoms unless you're in the government."

[Neutraligon]

Nope, she is being ordered to obey the law of the land, namely the constitution, and to perform her duty as an elected government official. Government officials always have their rights limited when they are on the job. It is part of what being a government employee means. While she is not on the job she can do whatever the hell she wants (well no she cannot murder even if her religion says it is OK), but while she is one the job she represents the government and thus her religious actions are limited.

Where does the constitution say that it doesn't apply in the workforce?

Not sure I understand the question. If you mean where does the constitution say it doesn't apply to government employees try the first amendment where it says that the government cannot recognize a religion.

[Dyakovo]

Maybe you should catch up with the rest of the class before raising your hand.

Maybe you should read your nations constitution as well before you raise your hand.

He's demonstrated far greater uunderstanding of the constitution than you have.
Not only was she violating the fourteenth amendment, she was alsoviolating the first.
As a court clerk, she's an agent of the government. Her choosing to use her government position to enforce her religious valuesupon others violates the separation of church and state proscribed in the first amendment.

[Vaikneland]

Define marriage then. Where do you go for marriages, and who marries you? A church. And a priest. What do those things involve, sir? RELIGION

You're talking about weddings, because marriage is between two people and the state. Through a clerk. Which is what Kim Davis is. You have no idea how funny this is.

Kim Davis is the connection if the Christian church. Forcing her to marry someone does not follow the constitution. And yet people complain about how we have no freedom anymore.

[Stellonia]

Maybe you should read your nations constitution as well before you raise your hand.

He's demonstrated far greater uunderstanding of the constitution than you have.
Not only was she violating the fourteenth amendment, she was alsoviolating the first.
As a court clerk, she's an agent of the government. Her choosing to use her government position to enforce her religious valuesupon others violates the separation of church and state proscribed in the first amendment.

The separation of church and state is not established by the First Amendment.

[Highfort]

The Constitution always mentions the government.

WORK. FORCE. Generally. Yes she was in the government, but it doesn't say "you have religious freedoms unless you're in the government."

Your religious freedoms in the work force end when it comes to other people. If you cannot carry out your worker duties as a result of your religion you are most welcome to find work elsewhere; the only thing the workplace cannot do is expressly reject or fire you because of your religion.

Kim Davis was not fired or jailed because of her religion. Kim Davis was jailed because she refused to do her fucking job: issue marriage certificates for legal marriages. Gay marriage is legal; if she doesn't want to issue licenses she should have resigned and found a new fucking job.

[Furry Alairia and Algeria]

Marriage has changed in definition enough times that your argument is, shall we say... A thousand years dead.

Define marriage then. Where do you go for marriages, and who marries you? A church. And a priest. What do those things involve, sir? RELIGION

the legally or formally recognized union of a man and a woman (or, in some jurisdictions, two people of the same sex) as partners in a relationship.

I don't see religion in that clause anywhere.

the relationship that exists between a husband and a wife

: a similar relationship between people of the same sex

: a ceremony in which two people are married to each other

1
a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage>
b : the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock
c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage
2
: an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities
3
: an intimate or close union <the marriage of painting and poetry — J. T. Shawcross>

So....

[Neutraligon]

The Constitution always mentions the government.

WORK. FORCE. Generally. Yes she was in the government, but it doesn't say "you have religious freedoms unless you're in the government."

While she works for the government, while she represents the government she is in essence the government, thus the first amendment section mentioning not recognizing a religion applies to her. The second she is not in the office it no longer applies, but while she is in a government office doing her job as a government employee that is exactly what it says.

[Neu California]

Marriage has changed in definition enough times that your argument is, shall we say... A thousand years dead.

Define marriage then. Where do you go for marriages, and who marries you? A church. And a priest. What do those things involve, sir? RELIGION

Or a government official in the right capacity. I don't know why you think you need a priest to get married, because, legally, you don't

[Vaikneland]

He's demonstrated far greater uunderstanding of the constitution than you have.
Not only was she violating the fourteenth amendment, she was alsoviolating the first.
As a court clerk, she's an agent of the government. Her choosing to use her government position to enforce her religious valuesupon others violates the separation of church and state proscribed in the first amendment.

The separation of church and state is not established by the First Amendment.

Yeah...

[Furry Alairia and Algeria]

He's demonstrated far greater uunderstanding of the constitution than you have.
Not only was she violating the fourteenth amendment, she was alsoviolating the first.
As a court clerk, she's an agent of the government. Her choosing to use her government position to enforce her religious valuesupon others violates the separation of church and state proscribed in the first amendment.

The separation of church and state is not established by the First Amendment.

Establishment clause. I already bought this up, how have you not stopped to look? My god.

[Cannot think of a name]

Define marriage then. Where do you go for marriages, and who marries you? A church. And a priest. What do those things involve, sir? RELIGION

You're talking about weddings, because marriage is between two people and the state. Through a clerk. Which is what Kim Davis is. You have no idea how funny this is.

I think he has a fair idea, in fact I think that's his intent. Like the guy who dresses up in the catchers gear and runs in front of all the dudes with paintball guns, except in his head he's going, "Suckers" for some reason.

[Mondoncon]

You're talking about weddings, because marriage is between two people and the state. Through a clerk. Which is what Kim Davis is. You have no idea how funny this is.

Kim Davis is the connection if the Christian church. Forcing her to marry someone does not follow the constitution. And yet people complain about how we have no freedom anymore.

She's an official of the state, not the church. Try again.

[Geilinor]

He's demonstrated far greater uunderstanding of the constitution than you have.
Not only was she violating the fourteenth amendment, she was alsoviolating the first.
As a court clerk, she's an agent of the government. Her choosing to use her government position to enforce her religious valuesupon others violates the separation of church and state proscribed in the first amendment.

The separation of church and state is not established by the First Amendment.

Yes, it is. Have you read the First Amendment?

[Neutraligon]

He's demonstrated far greater uunderstanding of the constitution than you have.
Not only was she violating the fourteenth amendment, she was alsoviolating the first.
As a court clerk, she's an agent of the government. Her choosing to use her government position to enforce her religious valuesupon others violates the separation of church and state proscribed in the first amendment.

The separation of church and state is not established by the First Amendment.

It is established by the first amendment and by Supreme Court decisions since the amendment has been in place.

[Vaikneland]

WORK. FORCE. Generally. Yes she was in the government, but it doesn't say "you have religious freedoms unless you're in the government."

While she works for the government, while she represents the government she is in essence the government, thus the first amendment section mentioning not recognizing a religion applies to her. The second she is not in the office it no longer applies, but while she is in a government office doing her job as a government employee that is exactly what it says.

Where does the first amendment ever say that it doesn't apply to someone?! Please inform me about this miraculous statement!

[Dyakovo]

How is being the county clerk part of her religion? That's what the Bill of Rights protects, your right to worship as you please. Name me a religion that includes the issuance of secular marriage licenses as part of its worship ceremonies.

marriage= religion. You're an idiot.

Marriage in the US is a secular institution. No church involvement is required for a marriage to be valid.

[Furry Alairia and Algeria]

The separation of church and state is not established by the First Amendment.

Yes, it is. Have you read the First Amendment?

Civil Issues Class hasn't reviewed it apparently.

[Mondoncon]

You're talking about weddings, because marriage is between two people and the state. Through a clerk. Which is what Kim Davis is. You have no idea how funny this is.

I think he has a fair idea, in fact I think that's his intent. Like the guy who dresses up in the catchers gear and runs in front of all the dudes with paintball guns, except in his head he's going, "Suckers" for some reason.

"heh heh... Wait, why are you all laughing?"

[Geilinor]

The Constitution always mentions the government.

WORK. FORCE. Generally. Yes she was in the government, but it doesn't say "you have religious freedoms unless you're in the government."

Elected officials can't pick and choose which laws to follow.

[Highfort]

Where does the first amendment ever say that it doesn't apply to someone?! Please inform me about this miraculous statement!

Establishment Clause of the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America

Please reread your Constitution before coming to the adult table to discuss, thank you.

[Neutraligon]

You're talking about weddings, because marriage is between two people and the state. Through a clerk. Which is what Kim Davis is. You have no idea how funny this is.

Kim Davis is the connection if the Christian church. Forcing her to marry someone does not follow the constitution. And yet people complain about how we have no freedom anymore.

Kim Davis has nothing to do with the Christian church while she is in the office. She might have a connection outside office, but while she is in the office she is solely a county clerk.

[Vaikneland]

Define marriage then. Where do you go for marriages, and who marries you? A church. And a priest. What do those things involve, sir? RELIGION

Or a government official in the right capacity. I don't know why you think you need a priest to get married, because, legally, you don't

Well you clearly need to get through Christianity somehow. Also, I noticed you're a communist, and I can see why your vision is so clouded