Kentucky County Clerk Denies Gay Marriage Licenses

[Eol Sha]

From earlier in this thread:

She was ordered to and said no. What is hard to understand about that?

If the threat of sitting in jail for a few days won't motivate her, what other "solution" would work?

I understand that perfectly well.

I don't know. There probably wasn't a better solution.

[Val Halla]

Erm... People can go into the marriage offices and just heckle homosexuals? I mean, sure, free speech is good and all, but there's a point where it reaches harassment...

[Eol Sha]

Probably just this woman and the specific circumstances surrounding her arrest. Actually, more the circumstances of her arrest rather than whatever political/religious beliefs Kim Davis says she has. Beyond her being a discriminatory bigot, I could care less about Kim Davis' beliefs or Kim Davis herself.

Am I not allowed to hold irrational beliefs and opinions?

The circumstances are she was ordered to cease violating the civil rights of others via abusing her authority as an elected official. Nothing else.

So it bothers you one can be held in contempt of court for violating a judges order to not violate protected rights under the law. As you say, specifically this woman, this case, this topic.
Yet you keep claiming the actual subject matter of the case isn't the problem...yet its specifically this case.

We are all surely allowed to have irrational and unreasoned opinions.
But then, we must admit they are then by definition entirely indefensible. You keep trying to defend your position but refuse to base it on anything.

Cake and eat it to?

I don't think so. I'm just answering questions. Whether you agree or not is up to you.

I'm going to stop here. Farn has already hinted that I and the others were threadjacking.

[The Alma Mater]

There is nothing juvenile about calling the hypocritical 'pro-life' crowd on their hypocrisy.
And you clearly didn't read what I said if you think I'm 'shitting on' anyone.

Or he believes your that person who wants everyone's rights upheld except for the ones you disagree with. You know like the right to be in a public building if you don't like gays.

Just to make sure - there is no limit on being there ? You could dress up in a klan outfit waving a nice cross while yelling "die niggers die", wear a burkha and praise the fall of democracy for the glory of the caliphate or loudly proclaim the merits of communism all while people are trying to get a simple license ?

Wow.

[Eol Sha]

Or he believes your that person who wants everyone's rights upheld except for the ones you disagree with. You know like the right to be in a public building if you don't like gays.

Just to make sure - there is no limit on being there ? You could dress up in a klan outfit waving a nice cross while yelling "die niggers die", wear a burkha and praise the fall of democracy for the glory of the caliphate or loudly proclaim the merits of communism all while people are trying to get a simple license ?

Wow.

So long as it isn't disruptive to the work getting done, I'd imagine.

[Ethel mermania]

Or he believes your that person who wants everyone's rights upheld except for the ones you disagree with. You know like the right to be in a public building if you don't like gays.

Just to make sure - there is no limit on being there ? You could dress up in a klan outfit waving a nice cross while yelling "die niggers die", wear a burkha and praise the fall of democracy for the glory of the caliphate or loudly proclaim the merits of communism all while people are trying to get a simple license ?

Wow.

Clearly that is what I said. Wow indeed.

[The Alma Mater]

Just to make sure - there is no limit on being there ? You could dress up in a klan outfit waving a nice cross while yelling "die niggers die", wear a burkha and praise the fall of democracy for the glory of the caliphate or loudly proclaim the merits of communism all while people are trying to get a simple license ?

Wow.

Clearly that is what I said.

Why, yes. It is. If people are allowed to heckle homosexuals there, they are allowed to heckle others as well.
I am surprised that the USA does not limit such behaviour inside its governmental buildings. On the street in front of it would be fine after all.

[Deuxtete]

Or he believes your that person who wants everyone's rights upheld except for the ones you disagree with. You know like the right to be in a public building if you don't like gays.

Just to make sure - there is no limit on being there ? You could dress up in a klan outfit waving a nice cross while yelling "die niggers die", wear a burkha and praise the fall of democracy for the glory of the caliphate or loudly proclaim the merits of communism all while people are trying to get a simple license ?

Wow.

As long as the Klan outfit doesn't hide your face, Kentucky anti-mask laws in public like most southern states are based on combating the Klan.
Additionally, your comparison isnt equitable.
Or are people in custom calling for the deaths of homosexuals? Because the media isn't covering that.
It's a public building, open to the public.

[Ethel mermania]

Clearly that is what I said.

Why, yes. It is. If people are allowed to heckle homosexuals there, they are allowed to heckle others as well.
I am surprised that the USA does not limit such behaviour inside its governmental buildings. On the street in front of it would be fine after all.

No, no it isnt. If they harass they get arrested. If they stand there quietly, they are allowed to be there. Unless there is an anti-loitering law, then they can't be there unless they have business with the clerk.

So once again it is not what I said, and the US does have anti harassment laws. Try to learn.

[The Alma Mater]

Why, yes. It is. If people are allowed to heckle homosexuals there, they are allowed to heckle others as well.
I am surprised that the USA does not limit such behaviour inside its governmental buildings. On the street in front of it would be fine after all.

No, no it isnt. If they harass they get arrested. If they stand there quietly, they are allowed to be there. Unless there is an anti-loitering law, then they can't be there unless they have business with the clerk.

So once again it is not what I said, and the US does have anti harassment laws. Try to learn.

I am trying to learn. I am also wondering if you did not read the actual post we are discussing:

What I want to know is why the homophobic Kim Davis supporters are allowed in the office just so they can heckle and yell at same-sex couples.

You seemed to be defending their right to do that by sneering at people who questioned that behaviour.

[Deuxtete]

It's definitely pro-life, I might not agree with the tactic but don't be juvenile.
It's a public building, just like EVERYONE else they have a right to be there.
Do not be that person who wants one groups rights upheld but the group you don't agree with, they suddenly deserve to be shit on.

The pro-lifers can't go in because those clinics are private property...this is the county clerks office.

There is nothing juvenile about calling the hypocritical 'pro-life' crowd on their hypocrisy.
And you clearly didn't read what I said if you think I'm 'shitting on' anyone.

What hypocrisy is that? Disagreeing with infanticide? There is no hypocrisy in that opinion unless they are murdering babies on the side. So yes, it's a juvenile slight made merely because you disagree with their opinion. Yes, I'm pro-choice. It also has nothing at all to do with this thread or this issue, which makes it even more juvenile to bring up at all.

Yes, you are shitting on these people's rights if you think they should not be allowed in public space.

[Ethel mermania]

No, no it isnt. If they harass they get arrested. If they stand there quietly, they are allowed to be there. Unless there is an anti-loitering law, then they can't be there unless they have business with the clerk.

So once again it is not what I said, and the US does have anti harassment laws. Try to learn.

I am trying to learn. I am also wondering if you did not read the actual post we are discussing:

What I want to know is why the homophobic Kim Davis supporters are allowed in the office just so they can heckle and yell at same-sex couples.

You seemed to be defending their right to do that by sneering at people who questioned that behaviour.

They are allowed to be there, they Re not allowed to attempt to imtimidate.

[Deuxtete]

No, no it isnt. If they harass they get arrested. If they stand there quietly, they are allowed to be there. Unless there is an anti-loitering law, then they can't be there unless they have business with the clerk.

So once again it is not what I said, and the US does have anti harassment laws. Try to learn.

I am trying to learn. I am also wondering if you did not read the actual post we are discussing:

What I want to know is why the homophobic Kim Davis supporters are allowed in the office just so they can heckle and yell at same-sex couples.

You seemed to be defending their right to do that by sneering at people who questioned that behaviour.

there is no law against insulting people, the real world is not NSG.

[Gauthier]

Really, you want a babysitter for your kids who was arrested for child abuse?

Rather depends, doesn't it? There was a story on the news here a little while ago about an Irish woman working as a nanny in the US facing murder charges relating to the death of a child in her care. Specifically the story was about her being released after two and a half years in jail and the charges being dropped because there was insufficient evidence to support the charge. Does the fact that she was arrested for murder make her unsuitable as babysitter?

Probably not, but a string of injured and/or dead children is probably a bad sign even if there's no conviction.

[Ethel mermania]

I am trying to learn. I am also wondering if you did not read the actual post we are discussing:



You seemed to be defending their right to do that by sneering at people who questioned that behaviour.

there is no law against insulting people, the real world is not NSG.

There is a law in Kentucky against harrassment, from the statue, it's a pdf and I am on my phone
525.070 Harassment.
(1) A person is guilty of harassment when, with intent to intimidate, harass, annoy, or
alarm another person, he or she:
(a) Strikes, shoves, kicks, or otherwise subjects him to physical contact;
(b) Attempts or threatens to strike, shove, kick, or otherwise subject the person to
physical contact;
(c) In a public place, makes an offensively coarse utterance, gesture, or display, or
addresses abusive language to any person present;
(d) Follows a person in or about a public place or places;
(e) Engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts which alarm o...


It goes on for a while. But they can be there, they can not harrass.

[Deuxtete]

Erm... People can go into the marriage offices and just heckle homosexuals? I mean, sure, free speech is good and all, but there's a point where it reaches harassment...

Heckling them in public isn't that point.

[Ifreann]

What I want to know is why the homophobic Kim Davis supporters are allowed in the office just so they can heckle and yell at same-sex couples.

I mean I don't care for those so-called 'pro-life' people who stand outside clinics and heckle people who go in and out but that's outside on the sidewalk.

But INSIDE a government office where people are coming and going and shit needs to get done is just fucking ridiculous.

Members of the public in a public space, they're probably covered by freedom of speech. Unless they're issuing threats?

Also, shoes. If they're not wearing shoes they could probably be ejected on health and safety grounds.

No shirt, no shoes, no heckling the gays.

[Val Halla]

Erm... People can go into the marriage offices and just heckle homosexuals? I mean, sure, free speech is good and all, but there's a point where it reaches harassment...

Heckling them in public isn't that point.

So heckling anybody for no reason isn't harassing somebody?

[Dyakovo]

Get in trouble for what? I assume you're talking about Kim Davis.

Yeah. Because they can't do much now, could they when she's not clerk?

But she is still the Rowan County Clerk...
If/when she's no longer the county clerk, she'll no longer be required (or allowed) to issue marriage licences, so at that point she'll no longer be doing anything wrong.

[Dyakovo]

From earlier in this thread:

She was ordered to and said no. What is hard to understand about that?

If the threat of sitting in jail for a few days won't motivate her, what other "solution" would work?

Crucifixion.
*nods*

[Ethel mermania]

She was ordered to and said no. What is hard to understand about that?

If the threat of sitting in jail for a few days won't motivate her, what other "solution" would work?

Crucifixion.
*nods*

Nah, too roman.

[Deuxtete]

there is no law against insulting people, the real world is not NSG.

There is a law in Kentucky against harrassment, from the statue, it's a pdf and I am on my phone
525.070 Harassment.
(1) A person is guilty of harassment when, with intent to intimidate, harass, annoy, or
alarm another person, he or she:
(a) Strikes, shoves, kicks, or otherwise subjects him to physical contact;
(b) Attempts or threatens to strike, shove, kick, or otherwise subject the person to
physical contact;
(c) In a public place, makes an offensively coarse utterance, gesture, or display, or
addresses abusive language to any person present;
(d) Follows a person in or about a public place or places;
(e) Engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts which alarm o...


It goes on for a while. But they can be there, they can not harrass.

Insults aren't harassment, following them home while insulting them is.

Frankly given the insults likely being heard I expect its little better than school yard yammering.
Given the mentality it takes to be driven to gather in solidarity against two people wanting to commit to each other.

[Dyakovo]

There is a law in Kentucky against harrassment, from the statue, it's a pdf and I am on my phone
525.070 Harassment.
(1) A person is guilty of harassment when, with intent to intimidate, harass, annoy, or
alarm another person, he or she:
(a) Strikes, shoves, kicks, or otherwise subjects him to physical contact;
(b) Attempts or threatens to strike, shove, kick, or otherwise subject the person to
physical contact;
(c) In a public place, makes an offensively coarse utterance, gesture, or display, or
addresses abusive language to any person present;
(d) Follows a person in or about a public place or places;
(e) Engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts which alarm o...


It goes on for a while. But they can be there, they can not harrass.

Insults aren't harassment, following them home while insulting them is.

Frankly given the insults likely being heard I expect its little better than school yard yammering.
Given the mentality it takes to be driven to gather in solidarity against two people wanting to commit to each other.

Per section (c) of the Kentucky harassment statute, you're wrong.

[Ethel mermania]

There is a law in Kentucky against harrassment, from the statue, it's a pdf and I am on my phone
525.070 Harassment.
(1) A person is guilty of harassment when, with intent to intimidate, harass, annoy, or
alarm another person, he or she:
(a) Strikes, shoves, kicks, or otherwise subjects him to physical contact;
(b) Attempts or threatens to strike, shove, kick, or otherwise subject the person to
physical contact;
(c) In a public place, makes an offensively coarse utterance, gesture, or display, or
addresses abusive language to any person present;
(d) Follows a person in or about a public place or places;
(e) Engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts which alarm o...


It goes on for a while. But they can be there, they can not harrass.

Insults aren't harassment, following them home while insulting them is.

Frankly given the insults likely being heard I expect its little better than school yard yammering.
Given the mentality it takes to be driven to gather in solidarity against two people wanting to commit to each other.

Section c is pretty broad and specifies in a public place, like a county clerk's office.

[Gauthier]

Crucifixion.
*nods*

Nah, too roman.

A week's confinement in San Francisco?