Kentucky County Clerk Denies Gay Marriage Licenses

[Ethel mermania]

What would a better solution have been then ? Jailing was following existing law.. should they have invented new laws just for her ?

No. Just because I don't have an alternate solution doesn't mean that I have to like the fact that she was arrested.

She wasn't arrested, she was held in contempt of court.

[Eol Sha]

No. Just because I don't have an alternate solution doesn't mean that I have to like the fact that she was arrested.

She wasn't arrested, she was held in contempt of court.

I'm aware of why she was put in jail, but she was actually arrested. Not detained, arrested.

[Herrebrugh]

It's her own damn choice.

*shrug* I still don't like it.

What the fuck is your problem with it? Woman has job for government. Woman can't be simply fired. Woman chooses not to do job. Court says: "Bad! You do job or go to prison!" (or quit). Woman says no. Woman goes to prison.

What's bad about that?

[Ifreann]

*shrug* I still don't like it.

What the fuck is your problem with it? Woman has job for government. Woman can't be simply fired. Woman chooses not to do job. Court says: "Bad! You do job, quit job, or go to prison!". Woman says no. Woman goes to prison.

What's bad about that?

I kinda think it's bad that Kim Davis didn't immediately realise that her personal views about the morality of gay marriage should have no bearing on whether people legally allowed to get married should be able to get a license from her office.

[Eol Sha]

*shrug* I still don't like it.

What the fuck is your problem with it? Woman has job for government. Woman can't be simply fired. Woman chooses not to do job. Court says: "Bad! You do job, quit job, or go to prison!". Woman says no. Woman goes to prison.

What's bad about that?

I am personally repulsed by the fact that she was arrested. The court may be doing this for the rights reasons, protecting the right to get married, but I personally disagreed with the judge's method of getting her to comply with the law. Am I aware that this was the only reasonable punishment available to Kim Davis? Yes, I am. Just as I'm aware that fining her would have been meaningless. Jailing her may have worked, but I still don't like it.

[Herrebrugh]

What the fuck is your problem with it? Woman has job for government. Woman can't be simply fired. Woman chooses not to do job. Court says: "Bad! You do job, quit job, or go to prison!". Woman says no. Woman goes to prison.

What's bad about that?

I kinda think it's bad that Kim Davis didn't immediately realise that her personal views about the morality of gay marriage should have no bearing on whether people legally allowed to get married should be able to get a license from her office.

Obviously woman is bad.

[AiliailiA]

*shrug* I still don't like it.

What the fuck is your problem with it? Woman has job for government. Woman can't be simply fired. Woman chooses not to do job. Court says: "Bad! You do job, quit job, or go to prison!". Woman says no. Woman goes to prison.

What's bad about that?

You don't have that quite right. The court say "do your job, or go to prison". It is outside the role of the judiciary to order any elected official to resign, there is a mechanism of impeachment and conviction for that.

[Herrebrugh]

What the fuck is your problem with it? Woman has job for government. Woman can't be simply fired. Woman chooses not to do job. Court says: "Bad! You do job, quit job, or go to prison!". Woman says no. Woman goes to prison.

What's bad about that?

I am personally repulsed by the fact that she was arrested. The court may be doing this for the rights reasons, protecting the right to get married, but I personally disagreed with the judge's method of getting her to comply with the law. Am I aware that this was the only reasonable punishment available to Kim Davis? Yes, I am. Just as I'm aware that fining her would have been meaningless. Jailing her may have worked, but I still don't like it.

*Shrugs* Good for you.

[Eol Sha]

I am personally repulsed by the fact that she was arrested. The court may be doing this for the rights reasons, protecting the right to get married, but I personally disagreed with the judge's method of getting her to comply with the law. Am I aware that this was the only reasonable punishment available to Kim Davis? Yes, I am. Just as I'm aware that fining her would have been meaningless. Jailing her may have worked, but I still don't like it.

*Shrugs* Good for you.

You asked.

[TomKirk]

What the fuck is your problem with it? Woman has job for government. Woman can't be simply fired. Woman chooses not to do job. Court says: "Bad! You do job, quit job, or go to prison!". Woman says no. Woman goes to prison.

What's bad about that?

I am personally repulsed by the fact that she was arrested. The court may be doing this for the rights reasons, protecting the right to get married, but I personally disagreed with the judge's method of getting her to comply with the law. Am I aware that this was the only reasonable punishment available to Kim Davis? Yes, I am. Just as I'm aware that fining her would have been meaningless. Jailing her may have worked, but I still don't like it.

You aren't explaining why. You acknowledge she is doing wrong and that it needs to be punished. So what is your problem?

[Herrebrugh]

*Shrugs* Good for you.

You asked.

You keep going on about it. I don't see why you insist on telling everyone how annoyed you are and leaving it at that, but it's a (partially, by the grace of Max) free forum, I guess.

[Eol Sha]

You asked.

You keep going on about it. I don't see why you insist on telling everyone how annoyed you are and leaving it at that, but it's a (partially, by the grace of Max) free forum, I guess.

I only agreed with one person. Others started asking me to defend my position. I did so.

[Herrebrugh]

You keep going on about it. I don't see why you insist on telling everyone how annoyed you are and leaving it at that, but it's a (partially, by the grace of Max) free forum, I guess.

I only agreed with one person. Others started asking me to defend my position. I did so.

Yet, still, all you've done is telling everyone how annoyed you are and leaving it at that.

But, yeah, I'll probably quit here. This is utterly pointless.

[Ifreann]

What the fuck is your problem with it? Woman has job for government. Woman can't be simply fired. Woman chooses not to do job. Court says: "Bad! You do job, quit job, or go to prison!". Woman says no. Woman goes to prison.

What's bad about that?

I am personally repulsed by the fact that she was arrested. The court may be doing this for the rights reasons, protecting the right to get married, but I personally disagreed with the judge's method of getting her to comply with the law. Am I aware that this was the only reasonable punishment available to Kim Davis? Yes, I am. Just as I'm aware that fining her would have been meaningless. Jailing her may have worked, but I still don't like it.

What do you find repulsive about it?

[Eol Sha]

I am personally repulsed by the fact that she was arrested. The court may be doing this for the rights reasons, protecting the right to get married, but I personally disagreed with the judge's method of getting her to comply with the law. Am I aware that this was the only reasonable punishment available to Kim Davis? Yes, I am. Just as I'm aware that fining her would have been meaningless. Jailing her may have worked, but I still don't like it.

You aren't explaining why. You acknowledge she is doing wrong and that it needs to be punished. So what is your problem?

I am personally repulsed by the fact that she was arrested. The court may be doing this for the rights reasons, protecting the right to get married, but I personally disagreed with the judge's method of getting her to comply with the law. Am I aware that this was the only reasonable punishment available to Kim Davis? Yes, I am. Just as I'm aware that fining her would have been meaningless. Jailing her may have worked, but I still don't like it.

What do you find repulsive about it?

From earlier in this thread:

Why does it disturb you that she was jailed for breaking the law?

Its the reason for why she was declared in contempt of court. I find it hard to feel comfortable with someone being arrested for not doing their job.

Yes, I realize that she wasn't doing what the court told her, but I'd like there to have been some other solution that didn't involve her arrest.

She broke the law, she goes to jail. That's how it works.

I realize that, but it seems extreme to lock someone up just because they aren't issuing marriage licenses. This isn't murder. It's not burglary. It's not petty theft. It's not even wire fraud. It just weirds me out that this woman is being arrested for an action that doesn't actually hurt anyone.

I just find it disturbing that someone can get arrested simply for not giving out pieces of paper.

Except the people who want marriage licences and are not getting them of course.
But hey. Those are obviously not people.

Don't pull that bullshit on me. I want her to give out those marriage certificates. I support equal rights for gay people. I want to live in a country that treats everyone equally.

However, I do not want not doing your job to be a crime. That just seems wrong to me. The people not receiving their marriage licenses are not being hurt. They haven't been injured. They haven't had their bank accounts robbed. I'd rather see her fired rather than arrested and jailed. That's just not right.

And before you correct me, I understand that she can't actually be fired since she is an elected official. If you want her gone then impeach her. Just don't arrest her.

Note: I don't have any philosophical or ideological underpinnings for my disagreement with her arrest. Just a gut feeling.

[United States of Doubloons]

I personally 100% agree that gay marriage shouldn't be allowed.

[Herrebrugh]

-snip-


Note: I don't have any philosophical or ideological underpinnings for my disagreement with her arrest. Just a gut feeling.

Then it's pretty much useless to discuss it.

I personally 100% agree that gay marriage shouldn't be allowed.

This isn't even so much about gay marriage as it is about upholding and executing the law.

[Hurdegaryp]

[Eol Sha]

-snip-


Note: I don't have any philosophical or ideological underpinnings for my disagreement with her arrest. Just a gut feeling.

Then it's pretty much useless to discuss it.

I will do my best to answer questions so long as people ask me them.

[AiliailiA]

What the fuck is your problem with it? Woman has job for government. Woman can't be simply fired. Woman chooses not to do job. Court says: "Bad! You do job, quit job, or go to prison!". Woman says no. Woman goes to prison.

What's bad about that?

I kinda think it's bad that Kim Davis didn't immediately realise that her personal views about the morality of gay marriage should have no bearing on whether people legally allowed to get married should be able to get a license from her office.

And I think it's bad that county clerks have the immunity of elected office. They are quite simply civil servants, ie government officials, with a role in government so constrained by law that there isn't any good reason for them to have a direct mandate from 'the People' which allows them to disobey the law as handed down by state and federal courts.

It's quaint I guess. I see that there was a time far in the past, with slow and unreliable communications from the federal and state courts to local government officials, when it might have made sense to have such locally elected plenipotentiaries of the law.

But now it's just silly. In Kentucky alone there are 120 counties, thus 120 elected county clerks.

Beyond silly, into the realm of frighteningly stupid, is they also elect Sheriffs. Local police are directed, hired and fired, by an elected official who becomes Sheriff of their local police force. There is no recourse of State or Federal police to over-ride the decisions of the Sheriff. Sometimes there is provision for a recall election (by a petition) and always some means of impeachment ... by other elected officials. Not ever, as far as I know, any mechanism for the judiciary to dismiss an elected Sheriff. They could jail the Sheriff for murder, but the motherfucker would still be Sheriff.

[Imperializt Russia]

While she works for the government, while she represents the government she is in essence the government, thus the first amendment section mentioning not recognizing a religion applies to her. The second she is not in the office it no longer applies, but while she is in a government office doing her job as a government employee that is exactly what it says.

Where does the first amendment ever say that it doesn't apply to someone?! Please inform me about this miraculous statement!

It never said that.
She is absolutely free to not issue marriage licences to homosexual couples if she feels that violates her religious ideals.

She can exercise this freedom by no longer holding a public officer where, by order of the courts no less, she is officially required to undertake that action.
Alternatively she can shut the fuck up and deal with it. She's apparently dead set on neither course, therefore being a colossal twat.

[Eol Sha]

I kinda think it's bad that Kim Davis didn't immediately realise that her personal views about the morality of gay marriage should have no bearing on whether people legally allowed to get married should be able to get a license from her office.

And I think it's bad that county clerks have the immunity of elected office. They are quite simply civil servants, ie government officials, with a role in government so constrained by law that there isn't any good reason for them to have a direct mandate from 'the People' which allows them to disobey the law as handed down by state and federal courts.

It's quaint I guess. I see that there was a time far in the past, with slow and unreliable communications from the federal and state courts to local government officials, when it might have made sense to have such locally elected plenipotentiaries of the law.

But now it's just silly. In Kentucky alone there are 120 counties, thus 120 elected county clerks.

Beyond silly, into the realm of frighteningly stupid, is they also elect Sheriffs. Local police are directed, hired and fired, by an elected official who becomes Sheriff of their local police force. There is no recourse of State or Federal police to over-ride the decisions of the Sheriff. Sometimes there is provision for a recall election (by a petition) and always some means of impeachment ... by other elected officials. Not ever, as far as I know, any mechanism for the judiciary to dismiss an elected Sheriff. They could jail the Sheriff for murder, but the motherfucker would still be Sheriff.

If I've learned anything about this country, its that tradition is one of the hardest things to break.

[Ashmoria]

What the fuck is your problem with it? Woman has job for government. Woman can't be simply fired. Woman chooses not to do job. Court says: "Bad! You do job, quit job, or go to prison!". Woman says no. Woman goes to prison.

What's bad about that?

I kinda think it's bad that Kim Davis didn't immediately realise that her personal views about the morality of gay marriage should have no bearing on whether people legally allowed to get married should be able to get a license from her office.

its an odd kind of Christianity that would have it that no matter that you have accepted jesus Christ as your personal lord and savior, no matter how devout you are, no matter how sincere your belief and how perfectly you follow the commandments, if suzy in the office issues a marriage license with your name on it to 2 men you go straight to hell, no questions asked.

[Gauthier]

Kim Davis 22:21 "Render unto God what is Caesar's"

[Deuxtete]

She wasn't arrested, she was held in contempt of court.

I'm aware of why she was put in jail, but she was actually arrested. Not detained, arrested.

That's what they do when you're found in contempt... So you have a problem with everyone being held in contempt or just this broad? Because the contempt charge wasn't an indictment of her faith.