Astounding Immorality of Islam: Allah's "Rewards" in Heaven

[Bharataland]

In Arabic, "peace" and "submission" are known by the same word. Islam is a religion of submission, not of "peace" as the civilized world understands it.

Personal submission to God, not to other people.

Personal submission to a God who is a psychopath and misogynist. Even if he were real, he does not deserve worship.

[Esternial]

"In Paradise there is a pavilion made of a single hollow pearl sixty miles wide, [b]in each corner of which there are wives who will not see those in the other corners;

Pearls are orbs.

Orbs don't have corners.

Clearly it's a scam.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Personal submission to God, not to other people.

Personal submission to a God who is a psychopath and misogynist. Even if he were real, he does not deserve worship.

Anti-theism 101.

[Islamic Republic e Jariri]

jk6kmg

[Bharataland]

Personal submission to a God who is a psychopath and misogynist. Even if he were real, he does not deserve worship.

Anti-theism 101.

What does this even mean?

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Anti-theism 101.

What does this even mean?

The questionable actions of deities is a bone of contention for antitheists.

[Islamic Republic e Jariri]

mvo56

[Farnhamia]

Just because a bunch of sick depraved rapists and pedophiles decided to call themselves "Islamic" and they together formed the "Islamic" "State" of Iraq and the Levant doesn't mean that they represent all of actual Islam, which is inherently peaceful.

In Arabic, "peace" and "submission" are known by the same word. Islam is a religion of submission, not of "peace" as the civilized world understands it.

*** DEAT for posting past the forum ban on Kotta Telangana, which nation is also deleted ***

[Carbon based lifeforms]

But if it is so open to interpretation, what is the value of the Quran? If you can interprete the text in ways that are so completely different, what does it even tell you? If everyone can just see in it what he wants to see, then it tells you nothing about God. It's just a mirror for your own ideas.

You do realize that this also isn't unique to Islam - its the reason why almost all major faiths of the world can be divided into sects. How many forms of Hinduism are there? Countless? Christianity? We have Catholics and Protestants, then we have other groups and sub-branches (do Mormons count?). Same goes with Buddhism - you see a fundamental aspect of all such religions is that beyond just being religions, they are also philosophies at their core.

So is the Quran God's word or not? Is it God's wisdom, transferred to us by the prophet, or is it a philosophical manuscript, written by ordinary humans, containing their ideas about the world?

EDIT: To be clear, I am focussing on islam because that's the thread topic. I am well aware that the same goes for all other religions.

[Islamic Republic e Jariri]

vm5njuj

[The Black Forrest]

Aren't you basically committing the same crime you are speaking about against?

I'm not ranting about how much I hate a specific religion and its influence on the world, so no.

Ugh Broken quote tree.

I wasn't referring to other religions. Just you making a generalization of the people of NSG.

It's a minority. Criticizing "bad Muslims" is not Islamophobia.

You're not exactly making any effort yourself with making it clear that you know mainstream Muslims don't support extremism, you're simply criticizing the extremist interpretations of Islam and pretty much making it look like extremist Islam is mainstream Islam, which it isn't.

An the average Muslim is well versed with Judaism, Jews, and Israel? I have heard and read some rather nasty things.

People are funny that way.

But, anecdotally, I have heard Islamophobe get tossed at people for criticizing Islam.

The average Muslim has his own prejudices just like everybody else. Anecdotal example? We had a gal from Jordan. The Muslims in the company treated her one way until an incident in an elevator where one made a snarky comment about Christians. She revealed she was a Christian and they started treating her like she was a traitor (her description; not mine).

*snip* The broken quote tree.....
The problems of Islamophobia can be rooted to the legacy of 9/11 - you're not getting the bigger picture, its not about equating Isamophobia with slavery, its people's outlook. African Americans were stigmatized - they were mocked and degraded for their skin color and made to feel ashamed of it - and people were apathetic to this because this hatred was perfectly acceptable in their society.

You linked the two and I don't think they are the same. They went through a period where they were thought to be subhuman. Muslims were in this country and probably through subhuman by the morons. Most didn't care until 9/11.

But since you mention stigmatization. It's not unique to the Muslims. It's happened to many social groups in this country and others in fact. The fallacy of humans. Some countries are good at handling differences and others not so much.

The media only portrays the extremists out there, no one cares about showing ordinary peaceful Muslim citizens and they make people's outlook of Islam focus on the extremist interpretations

The media cares about what sells. Do you think people really care about watching the good actions of people all the time? Not really. It's not limited to Islam and the Muslims. They are just what sells at this time. ISIS is very good for selling the "drama" stories.

like you so very sadly are, whilst completely omitting the truth that most of us are in fact very moderate but we're being associated with extremism because you see Islam as extremist so it doesn't matter if moderate Muslims exist because to you the religion itself is fundamentally extremist, never mind the fact that its not as simple as you must wish it to be, Islam is not fundamentally extremist, its about belief in one monotheistic god and just about everything else about it varies according to interpretation, yet you're fixated on this one singular minority interpretation, the extremist interpretation and you want this to be the default interpretation but you fail to realize that there is no default interpretation to begin with, its all bound to the political climate and local culture.

You will not find anything from me suggesting all Muslims are extremists.

*snip* broken quote tree.

The KKK was once involved in many violent crimes. Has the EDL done anything like lynching?

Oh yes, lets all love the KKK in this alternate reality where they never lynched or used physical violence - they still promoted unjustified persecution against African-Americans, Hispanics, Catholics, Jews and Divorced Wives, and guess what - they were very influential in their time even without lynching - they were still a major threat to the safety and dignity of this racial, religious and social groups.

And you think without lynching the KKK wouldn't be as important as it was? Wrong - and the EDL can be just as major of a threat.

What are you going on about? You asked why the KKK get's slammed and the EDL does not. Point is the KKK had a violent past so they are not treated lightly.

Oh and you should look into their history if you are going to mention them. The KKK is not outlawed.

As to the EDL and free speech? Well? In this country, free speech also means the ability to say all Muslims are extremists.

Now will Muslims have to go through decades of silent persecution with the mainstream population gradually being poisoned to believe their faith is pure savagery? The true savages are obviously the bigots who pretend to conduct in-depth research before firing off about how sick, perverted, brutal and backwards Islam is - their agenda is so clear - take down the faith in the process its peaceful followers will also suffer from the stigma - in time they will be responsible for people being ashamed of being Muslim - just as how Blacks were made to think they were an inferior race half a century ago.

Decades? Hardly. Most people will move on. You will have a percentage who will think that but they tend to be driven by ignorant hate anyway. But time will tell.

You keep making the mistake that Islam needs to change to adapt to the modern world - what you fail to realize time and time again is that you don't know what you're talking about - no seriously, what do you mean when you say 'Islam'?

I assume you're talking about those extremist groups in the middle east - or are you talking about Twelver Islam? Or Ismaili Islam? Or Quranist Islam? Or Ibadi Islam? Or European Islam? Which version do you want to adapt to the modern world - who knows, some versions might already do so, others don't, but you make the mistake of thinking all interpretations are essentially the same when their not - so next time when you say Islam needs to change, just which version of Islam are you talking about exactly?

No need to get defensive.

Adapt to the modern world as in dealing with the speed of mass communication. You mention only the bad things are shown. Well? How do you do offset that image?

I'm a cynic by nature - I said all of NSG was Islamophobic because that's what it emotionally felt like - but I also hoped to get a reaction refuting this statement, an experiment to see if there were in fact any non-bigoted individuals on NSG whose only agenda wasn't demonizing Islam without realizing where both sides come from (though really in fact there are far more than just 2 sides - Islam is a far more complex issue than you seem to realize).

Cynical is one thing; ignorant judgement is another. You will find many Generalites are quite smart and well versed in many things. We don't always jump an every thread. Especially if you have been a long term member. It turns into "ugh yet another thread on "*insert religion* sucks/is great!"

[Aryavartha]

everytime you discuss islam it follows the same pattern

1. but but but what about the same thing in other religions or believers of other religions ...sidetrack...
2. but i know a muslim and he is not a jihadi ...anecdote

3. but it is only interpretation that's wrong -
false. interpretation is fairly clear on many things. the peaceful muslim near you just ignores those just like how modern christian cherrypicks christianity.

these are facts. there is hardly any majority muslim country in the world where minorities thrive. either they are killed, driven away, converted or subjugated as dhimmis. numbers of minorities always shrink over time in muslim majority countries. in pakistan it came down from around 20% in 1947 to 2 or 3% now and a less severe attrition on bangladesh as well. on the contrary, muslim numbers always increase in majority non-muslim countries. these are facts. talking about this does not make one "islamophobic".

4. all muslims are not iihadis, only few are and they too are like that because of <insert pet cause>.

true and false. there is no way you can easily quantify who is a jihadi or islamist or not. depending on where you put the bar at, the numbers may change wildly. but there are deep rooted negative feelings against kafirs, gays, apostates etc that can be inflamed so easily by a friday sermon.

but these are facts. islam expanded by conquest. mostly. excluding a few places like indonesia. wherever it won completely, there is "peace" because there is nobody left to fight with (well, then they turned into each other on sectarian conflicts). wherever it could not win completely, there is conflict still going on. this is stemming directly from the concept of darul salam and darul harb.

a person keeps coming up to you and hitting you. pretending there is no issue between you and him is just stupid. pretending that what the person believes has nothing to do with his behavior is also stupid.

some of the many conflicts involving islamism is muddled because of anti-imperialism - and that is in some places legitimate, but many conflicts are more to do with nature of islam and its worldview and how its believers want to spread it.

[Imperializt Russia]

Literally all of those arguments can be applied to Christianity and other religions.

[Gauthier]

Literally all of those arguments can be applied to Christianity and other religions.

Naw, Islam is the only evil and violent religion in the world obviously. Religions were harmonious serene affairs before Muhammed was born. *nod nod*

[The Wolven League]

You seem to be under the mistaken assumption that:

1) I actually care about my nations being deleted.
2) I actually have an iota of respect for the moderators on this forum.

Carry on deleting imaginary property to compensate for your lack of masculinity.

I heard on good authority that Farnhamia has no desire to compensate for lack of masculinity.

Especially since Farn is female.

IIRC, please don't DOS me farn if I'm wrong. pls?

[Benuty]

Personal submission to a God who is a psychopath and misogynist. Even if he were real, he does not deserve worship.

Anti-theism 101.

A pitiful course run by underaged Mormon Gods acting as clever trolls.

[The Wolven League]

Anti-theism 101.

A pitiful course run by underaged Mormon Gods acting as clever trolls.

Don't forget the spiteful nature spirits who are still pissed at the Mongols' conversion to Islam.

[Benuty]

A pitiful course run by underaged Mormon Gods acting as clever trolls.

Don't forget the spiteful nature spirits who are still pissed at the Mongols' conversion to Islam.

Ahh my old friend Tengri the real father of the sky. Contrary to the edgy cuts delivered by those who keep accusing the Christian deity of being a magical sky fairy.

I ought to slap every one of their faces for that wholesale ruin of a well deserved title.

[Xinxian]

Ibn Warraq, a famous pro-secular, ex-Muslim author,once described the Islamic "heaven" (jannah) as a cosmic brothel full of women for the exclusive use of "pious" men. I thought he was exaggerating at first, but after being exposed to Islamic scriptures (the Quran and the hadiths), it seems that this is actually a fairly accurate portrayal of what the Islamic "God" offers its believers.


Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] said, "In Paradise there is a pavilion made of a single hollow pearl sixty miles wide, in each corner of which there are wives who will not see those in the other corners; and the believers will visit and enjoy them. And there are two gardens, the utensils and contents of which are made of silver; and two other gardens, the utensils and contents of which are made of so-and-so (i.e. gold) and nothing will prevent the people staying in the Garden of Eden from seeing their Lord except the curtain of Majesty over His Face."

Link: http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Bukhari_6_60.php


Allah promises to give his devout believers the women with the "most desirable vaginas" as well as eternal erections for the "pious" men. He also says that all unbeliever women in hell will be available for sexual usage by "pious" Muslim men:

Abu ‘Umama reported that Allah’s Messenger (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم) said: "There is no one whom Allah will admit to Paradise but Allah will marry him to seventy-two wives, two from houris and seventy from his inheritance from the people of Hell, all of whom will have desirable front passages (vaginas) and he will have a male member that never becomes flaccid (i.e., soft and limp)."

Link: http://sunnah.com/urn/1294400


Quran 55:56 mentions virgins in paradise, for the use of men. Allah ensures that his "rewards" for the faithful are untouched by man or jinni:

"In them [celestial gardens] are women limiting [their] glances, untouched before them by man or jinni - "

Link: http://quran.com/55


Muhammad is quite explicit in describing the "celestial rewards" that Allah promises the faithful.

The Prophet said: “A houri is a most beautiful young woman with a transparent body. The marrow of her bones is visible like the interior lines of pearls and rubies. She looks like red wine in a white glass. She is of white color, and free from the routine physical disabilities of an ordinary woman such as menstruation, menopause, urinal and offal discharge, child bearing and the related pollution. A houri is a girl of tender age, having large breasts which are round (pointed), and not inclined to dangle. Houris dwell in palaces of splendid surroundings."

Link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/4851927/Qualities-and-Attributes-of-Hoors-Hoor-al-ayn-Houris-of-Jannah-Paradise#scribd


It is clear that these celestial "women" are nothing more than semen receptacles for the use of "pious" men. Muhammad himself states these beings do not undergo menstruation or menopause as real women do, nor do they urinate, defecate, bear children, or indeed, seem to have any purpose in existing except to satisfy the sexual fantasies of "pious" Muslim men. They are nothing more than sex objects for the exclusive use of Muslim men.


However, what I am interested in is what the Muslim women get in paradise. Muhammad seems to relish describing in detail the celestial rewards that his male followers will receive, but what will Muslim women get?

Don't forget the pederasty:

"And there shall wait on them young boys of their own, as fair as virgin pearl."
~Qur'an 52:24 http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/052-qmt.php#052.024

"They shall be attended by boys graced with eternal youth who to the beholders eyes will seem like sprinkle pearls."
~Qur'an 76:19 http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/076-qmt.php#076.019

[Sam Hyde]

Because Muslim countries are the only ones actually doing that.

Josh Duggar lives in a Muslim country?

If you think that Josh Duggar is a bigger problem for women than Islam, then you're part of the problem.

[Wolfenia]

Personal submission to God, not to other people.

Personal submission to a God who is a psychopath and misogynist. Even if he were real, he does not deserve worship.

Edgey man. Keep that in your pocket, you might cut someone.

[Gauthier]

Josh Duggar lives in a Muslim country?

If you think that Josh Duggar is a bigger problem for women than Islam, then you're part of the problem.

So religious hypocrisy suppressing the rights of certain groups is no big deal because Muslims.

[Sam Hyde]

If you think that Josh Duggar is a bigger problem for women than Islam, then you're part of the problem.

So religious hypocrisy suppressing the rights of certain groups is no big deal because Muslims.

No, it's no big deal because Josh Duggar doesn't have any power to enforce his will.

Meanwhile there are entire Muslim countries which stone adulterers.

[The Wolven League]

Don't forget the spiteful nature spirits who are still pissed at the Mongols' conversion to Islam.

Ahh my old friend Tengri the real father of the sky. Contrary to the edgy cuts delivered by those who keep accusing the Christian deity of being a magical sky fairy.

I ought to slap every one of their faces for that wholesale ruin of a well deserved title.

#tengriforkhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan1252

[Neo Lagos]

Can anyone actually respond to this?

Why don't people stop talking about Christianity and actually discuss the topic at hand? You can make your own topic about the immorality of Christianity if you wish.

If a religion promises to give its male followers infidel women from hell as virtual sex slaves, can we conclude that this is an immoral religion?

Also, no one has answered by query as to what pious Muslim women get in the afterlife. Allah promises Muslim men eternal erections and some virgins with pleasant vaginas, but these obviously do not apply to Muslim women.

*** Please stop going off-topic. Discuss Islam only in this thread. ***