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Astounding Immorality of Islam: Allah's "Rewards" in Heaven

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Lordieth
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Postby Lordieth » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:16 am

Kotta Telangana wrote:
Gauthier wrote:
Funny, the tone of the thread hasn't been "There's a problem with fundamentalism and radicalism in Islam and we need everyone to solve that problem." It's been more like "Islam is a violent, immoral religion and it needs to be done away with by any means."


What is wrong for wanting to eliminate Islam? Any rational human being with a decent moral compass should be strongly opposed to Islam. Those who support Islam are either ignorant or immoral.


Unless you apply that logic to every major religion, it's not gonna wash. I don't hear the outcry to eliminate Christianity (not in the West, anyway), yet the Bible isn't exactly a paragon of moral virtues either. That's because the problem is fundamentalism. Not religion. You can't eliminate religion.
Last edited by Lordieth on Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Politicoandrous Anthronegative Proplex
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Postby Politicoandrous Anthronegative Proplex » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:17 am

Lordieth wrote:
Kotta Telangana wrote:
What is wrong for wanting to eliminate Islam? Any rational human being with a decent moral compass should be strongly opposed to Islam. Those who support Islam are either ignorant or immoral.


Unless you apply that logic to every major religion, it's not gonna wash. I don't hear the outcry to eliminate Christianity (not in the West, anyway), yet the Bible isn't exactly a paragon of moral virtues either. That's because the problem is fundamentalism. Not religion. You can't eliminate religion.


Fundamentalist Buddhism and Christianity is supposed to be inherently peaceful, however.
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:18 am

Dyrrachium wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:In terms of terror 9/11 is a literally huge blip of bodycount. It's a thing that happened once. No incident has since eclipsed at and it's likely that no incident will.

Bodycount is a very short-sighted way of looking at terrorism since 9/11 weights it absurdly anyway. It misses the other factors and problems of terrorism. It's just used because it's the simplest and most easily digestible metric - a number describing a bad thing.

I didn't say 9/11 but okay. My point is that radical religion in the modern world, where explosives are common place, where nuclear weapons exist, where long range missiles exist, where there is simply too devastating weapons to be used in the name of some unproven deity, is incredibly dangerous. This wasn't as much a case in the Crusades. The crusades weren't intended, and could never, completely exterminate all muslims. The jihad of ISIS although unlikely, could kill all non muslims, and that's their goal.

I would argue that nuclear arms and particularly long-range nuclear arms are substantially beyond the capabilities of terrorist militias even if they somehow acquire them. The heaviest arm that IS captured in Iraq that I am aware of is a single FROG-7 missile (not even with launcher truck). It's hardly a superweapon.
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Lordieth
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Postby Lordieth » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:19 am

Politicoandrous Anthronegative Proplex wrote:
Lordieth wrote:
Unless you apply that logic to every major religion, it's not gonna wash. I don't hear the outcry to eliminate Christianity (not in the West, anyway), yet the Bible isn't exactly a paragon of moral virtues either. That's because the problem is fundamentalism. Not religion. You can't eliminate religion.


Fundamentalist Buddhism and Christianity is supposed to be inherently peaceful, however.


Is it? Doesn't the bible talk about killing people who believe in other gods?
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Transoxthraxia
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Postby Transoxthraxia » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:20 am

Lordieth wrote:
Politicoandrous Anthronegative Proplex wrote:
Fundamentalist Buddhism and Christianity is supposed to be inherently peaceful, however.


Is it? Doesn't the bible talk about killing people who believe in other gods?

I don't remember hearing about this passage. Could I get a link or source?
Where must we go, we who wander this wasteland, in search for our better selves?
In Egypt's sandy silence, all alone,
Stands a gigantic Leg, which far off throws
The only shadow that the Desert knows:—
"I am great OZYMANDIAS," saith the stone,
"The King of Kings; this mighty City shows
"The wonders of my hand." The City's gone,
Nought but the Leg remaining to disclose
The site of this forgotten Babylon.

We wonder, and some Hunter may express
Wonder like ours, when thro' the wilderness
Where London stood, holding the Wolf in chace,
He meets some fragment huge, and stops to guess
What powerful but unrecorded race
Once dwelt in that annihilated place.
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Postby Gauthier » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:22 am

Kotta Telangana wrote:
Gauthier wrote:
Funny, the tone of the thread hasn't been "There's a problem with fundamentalism and radicalism in Islam and we need everyone to solve that problem." It's been more like "Islam is a violent, immoral religion and it needs to be done away with by any means."


What is wrong with wanting to eliminate Islam? Any rational human being with a decent moral compass should be strongly opposed to Islam. Those who support Islam are either ignorant or immoral.


So again, why not internment camps?
Crimes committed by Muslims will be a pan-Islamic plot and proof of Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of loners who do not represent their belief system at all.
The probability of one's participation in homosexual acts is directly proportional to one's public disdain and disgust for homosexuals.
If a political figure makes an accusation of wrongdoing without evidence, odds are probable that the accuser or an associate thereof has in fact committed the very same act, possibly to a worse degree.
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Lordieth
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Postby Lordieth » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:23 am

Transoxthraxia wrote:
Lordieth wrote:
Is it? Doesn't the bible talk about killing people who believe in other gods?

I don't remember hearing about this passage. Could I get a link or source?


Deuteronomy 13:1-18 ESV

“If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him. But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of slavery, to make you leave the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. ...
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Avalon
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Postby Avalon » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:24 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Lockdownn wrote:Or lots of things.

Religion of piece my ass.

Christianity is so lovey hand-holding in strawberry fields.

We're not talking Christianity, are we? Christianity can be the worst thing ever, but NOT a valid argument about if a different thing is immoral or not.

Now, is Islam immoral based on those quotes? it may be, if those obviously sexist principles have some effect on women's rights, freedoms and life. In many Muslim countries and areas it would seem so, and those beliefs are behind many sexist and homophobic laws and customs.
Last edited by Avalon on Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:24 am

Lordieth wrote:
Transoxthraxia wrote:I don't remember hearing about this passage. Could I get a link or source?


Deuteronomy 13:1-18 ESV

“If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him. But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of slavery, to make you leave the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. ...


Deuteronomy contains much better "KILL ALL NONBELIEVERS" verses ;)

Still, I cannot help but notice that noone else wants to discuss the actual point of the OP :(
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:24 am

Transoxthraxia wrote:
Lordieth wrote:
Is it? Doesn't the bible talk about killing people who believe in other gods?

I don't remember hearing about this passage. Could I get a link or source?

Clearly heavily biased and thus I'm loathe to use it, but here's a list of supposed capital offences in the bible, mostly Old Testament.
http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm
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Dyrrachium
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Postby Dyrrachium » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:25 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Lordieth wrote:


Deuteronomy contains much better "KILL ALL NONBELIEVERS" verses ;)

Still, I cannot help but notice that noone else wants to discuss the actual point of the OP :(

Because the point of OP is batshit crazy

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Postby Gauthier » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:25 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Lordieth wrote:


Deuteronomy contains much better "KILL ALL NONBELIEVERS" verses ;)

Still, I cannot help but notice that noone else wants to discuss the actual point of the OP :(


The point of the OP is basically a "LOL EBIL MOOZLEMZ" wankfest.
Last edited by Gauthier on Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Crimes committed by Muslims will be a pan-Islamic plot and proof of Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of loners who do not represent their belief system at all.
The probability of one's participation in homosexual acts is directly proportional to one's public disdain and disgust for homosexuals.
If a political figure makes an accusation of wrongdoing without evidence, odds are probable that the accuser or an associate thereof has in fact committed the very same act, possibly to a worse degree.
Where is your God-Emperor now?

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:26 am

Dyrrachium wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
Deuteronomy contains much better "KILL ALL NONBELIEVERS" verses ;)

Still, I cannot help but notice that noone else wants to discuss the actual point of the OP :(

Because the point of OP is batshit crazy


Really ? So what DO good moslimas get out of the afterlife while their husbands are fornicating ?
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Lordieth
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Postby Lordieth » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:26 am

Dyrrachium wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
Deuteronomy contains much better "KILL ALL NONBELIEVERS" verses ;)

Still, I cannot help but notice that noone else wants to discuss the actual point of the OP :(

Because the point of OP is batshit crazy


People are addressing the point; by highlighting that this isn't a problem exclusive to Islam. We know religion can be hypocritical. This isn't news.
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Kotta Telangana
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Postby Kotta Telangana » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:26 am

Gauthier wrote:
Kotta Telangana wrote:
What is wrong with wanting to eliminate Islam? Any rational human being with a decent moral compass should be strongly opposed to Islam. Those who support Islam are either ignorant or immoral.


So again, why not internment camps?


I am opposed to using state violence or coercion to destroy religion, because this opens the way for all sorts of abuses of human rights by states. Rather, I support the usage of rational argument and free criticism to marginalize religions like Islam and demonstrate their underlying immorality and absurdity. In other words, I do not object to the goal of destroying Islam, but I think we should be careful about the means we choose to achieve that goal.

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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:26 am

Avalon wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:Christianity is so lovey hand-holding in strawberry fields.

We're not talking Christianity, are we? Christianity can be the worst thing ever, but NOT a valid argument about if a different thing is immoral or not.

Now, is Islam immoral based on those quotes? it may be, if those obviously sexist principles have some effect on women's rights, freedoms and life. In many Muslim countries and areas it would seem so, and those beliefs are behind many sexist and homophobic laws and customs.

Christians in the west, particularly America, love to resort to the bible to enforce their sexist beliefs to trample women's rights, freedoms and life.
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:27 am

Gauthier wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
Deuteronomy contains much better "KILL ALL NONBELIEVERS" verses ;)

Still, I cannot help but notice that noone else wants to discuss the actual point of the OP :(


The point of the OP is basically a "LOL EBIL MOOZLEMZ" wankfest.

Yes, I mentioned that earlier.
I also mentioned that he has a point that Islam is really very, very, very vague on the afterlife for women while it is lyrical about that for men.
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
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Transoxthraxia
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Postby Transoxthraxia » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:27 am

Lordieth wrote:
Transoxthraxia wrote:I don't remember hearing about this passage. Could I get a link or source?


Deuteronomy 13:1-18 ESV

“If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him. But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of slavery, to make you leave the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. ...

Ah, okay. I'm not a Christian myself, so I'm not overly familiar with scripture.
Where must we go, we who wander this wasteland, in search for our better selves?
In Egypt's sandy silence, all alone,
Stands a gigantic Leg, which far off throws
The only shadow that the Desert knows:—
"I am great OZYMANDIAS," saith the stone,
"The King of Kings; this mighty City shows
"The wonders of my hand." The City's gone,
Nought but the Leg remaining to disclose
The site of this forgotten Babylon.

We wonder, and some Hunter may express
Wonder like ours, when thro' the wilderness
Where London stood, holding the Wolf in chace,
He meets some fragment huge, and stops to guess
What powerful but unrecorded race
Once dwelt in that annihilated place.
The Nuclear Fist wrote:Transoxthraxia confirmed for shit taste

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Gauthier
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Postby Gauthier » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:27 am

Kotta Telangana wrote:
Gauthier wrote:
So again, why not internment camps?


I am opposed to using state violence or coercion to destroy religion, because this opens the way for all sorts of abuses of human rights by states. Rather, I support the usage of rational argument and free criticism to marginalize religions like Islam and demonstrate their underlying immorality and absurdity. In other words, I do not object to the goal of destroying Islam, but I think we should be careful about the means we choose to achieve that goal.


No religion in the world has ever been eliminated through arguments alone. Anytime a religion has been erased, violence has always been involved in the process.
Crimes committed by Muslims will be a pan-Islamic plot and proof of Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of loners who do not represent their belief system at all.
The probability of one's participation in homosexual acts is directly proportional to one's public disdain and disgust for homosexuals.
If a political figure makes an accusation of wrongdoing without evidence, odds are probable that the accuser or an associate thereof has in fact committed the very same act, possibly to a worse degree.
Where is your God-Emperor now?

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Transoxthraxia
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Postby Transoxthraxia » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:28 am

Gauthier wrote:
Kotta Telangana wrote:
I am opposed to using state violence or coercion to destroy religion, because this opens the way for all sorts of abuses of human rights by states. Rather, I support the usage of rational argument and free criticism to marginalize religions like Islam and demonstrate their underlying immorality and absurdity. In other words, I do not object to the goal of destroying Islam, but I think we should be careful about the means we choose to achieve that goal.


No religion in the world has ever been eliminated through arguments alone. Anytime a religion has been erased, violence has always been involved in the process.

Like Zoroastrianism or Manichaeism at the hands of Islam.
Where must we go, we who wander this wasteland, in search for our better selves?
In Egypt's sandy silence, all alone,
Stands a gigantic Leg, which far off throws
The only shadow that the Desert knows:—
"I am great OZYMANDIAS," saith the stone,
"The King of Kings; this mighty City shows
"The wonders of my hand." The City's gone,
Nought but the Leg remaining to disclose
The site of this forgotten Babylon.

We wonder, and some Hunter may express
Wonder like ours, when thro' the wilderness
Where London stood, holding the Wolf in chace,
He meets some fragment huge, and stops to guess
What powerful but unrecorded race
Once dwelt in that annihilated place.
The Nuclear Fist wrote:Transoxthraxia confirmed for shit taste

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Gauthier
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Postby Gauthier » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:28 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Gauthier wrote:
The point of the OP is basically a "LOL EBIL MOOZLEMZ" wankfest.

Yes, I mentioned that earlier.
I also mentioned that he has a point that Islam is really very, very, very vague on the afterlife for women while it is lyrical about that for men.


And it's an Abrahamic religion. The whole thing starts off with "Bitch Got Us Kicked Out of Paradise," so it pretty much sets the tone for how they're going to view women.
Last edited by Gauthier on Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Crimes committed by Muslims will be a pan-Islamic plot and proof of Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of loners who do not represent their belief system at all.
The probability of one's participation in homosexual acts is directly proportional to one's public disdain and disgust for homosexuals.
If a political figure makes an accusation of wrongdoing without evidence, odds are probable that the accuser or an associate thereof has in fact committed the very same act, possibly to a worse degree.
Where is your God-Emperor now?

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Oasisa
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Postby Oasisa » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:30 am

I am glad he brought up those bible quotes, I think everyone will benefit from seeing them, but it is courtesy to spoiler it so we can easily see the responses and such.

You can edit your post, spoiler it
don't put a space between the brackets and this message
and write above the spoiler the title of what the spoiler is about.

For anyone interested in my two cents about this conversation, I got a medium sized response below.

Also, I think it is heretical to interpret any text physically written by people to be interpreting the word of god. People have inherently flawed views, and they always bring their own biases into their writing, even by interpreting god. Hence believing a physically written text to be the word of God is worshipping humans instead of God, because your worshipping the text, not God.

Whatever form God (and his strange status as a supernatural being separate being from the universe), takes, we will always be flawed in perceiving God or whatever the actual universal equivalent is. Everyone on earth needs to realize that we are all flawed in our perceptions, and proceed on that assumption, even if we are interpreting words we believe or somehow know to be from God. It doesn't matter if the truth is prefect if the listener is biased, which all humans inherently are.

I believe if we are to worship a being who we believe to be good, that we listen to our hearts and do what we feel is right, and be willing to change what we do when we eventually know better. Any supernatural being or version of God that cannot accept is not worth worshipping, because being flawed in our interpretations, morally speaking and the natural world around us (which we are apparently apart of), is inherently part of being human.

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Gauthier
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Postby Gauthier » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:30 am

Transoxthraxia wrote:
Gauthier wrote:
No religion in the world has ever been eliminated through arguments alone. Anytime a religion has been erased, violence has always been involved in the process.

Like Zoroastrianism or Manichaeism at the hands of Islam.


Whereas Christian missionaries peacefully urged natives all across the globe to abandon their native religions and convert willingly.
Crimes committed by Muslims will be a pan-Islamic plot and proof of Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of loners who do not represent their belief system at all.
The probability of one's participation in homosexual acts is directly proportional to one's public disdain and disgust for homosexuals.
If a political figure makes an accusation of wrongdoing without evidence, odds are probable that the accuser or an associate thereof has in fact committed the very same act, possibly to a worse degree.
Where is your God-Emperor now?

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Lordieth
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Postby Lordieth » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:31 am

Transoxthraxia wrote:
Lordieth wrote:

Ah, okay. I'm not a Christian myself, so I'm not overly familiar with scripture.


I follow a couple atheist youtube channels, who tend to point these passages out on occasion. The bible has its share of good passages too, but people conveniently skim over the unpleasant stuff when it comes to Christianity, and focus heavily on it when talking about Islam. I bet if you compared the books like-for-like, they wouldn't be far off one another in terms of the good, the bad and the down-right ugly.

It was a different time. We've moved on from stoning people to death. Er. Mostly.
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Kotta Telangana
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Postby Kotta Telangana » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:32 am

Gauthier wrote:
Kotta Telangana wrote:
I am opposed to using state violence or coercion to destroy religion, because this opens the way for all sorts of abuses of human rights by states. Rather, I support the usage of rational argument and free criticism to marginalize religions like Islam and demonstrate their underlying immorality and absurdity. In other words, I do not object to the goal of destroying Islam, but I think we should be careful about the means we choose to achieve that goal.


No religion in the world has ever been eliminated through arguments alone. Anytime a religion has been erased, violence has always been involved in the process.


No religion in the world has ever been subject to intense, global criticism and open debate before. It is only in modern times, with the advent of the Internet and instant communication, that we have a chance of organizing a global information campaign against Islam. We are already seeing numerous pro-secular, anti-Islamic sites, channels, books, etc. spreading all over the Internet. More and more people are becoming aware of just how immoral and disgusting this religion is.

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