European Migrant Crisis Megathread

[Kelinfort]

This isn't analogous. These people aren't more technologically advanced than you nor are they attempting to genocide the population.

At current rate Western Europeans will be minorities in their own country by mid 21st century. In Sweden even as soon as 2040.

If you knew how to do biased multiculturalism correctly, you wouldn't have an issue.

[Teemant]

At current rate Western Europeans will be minorities in their own country by mid 21st century. In Sweden even as soon as 2040.

If you knew how to do biased multiculturalism correctly, you wouldn't have an issue.

What you mean?

[Sophisticated horrors]

In Hungary, which rejects more than 90% of refugee applicants, the employment rate (20-64) for foreign-citizens is 6.4 percentage points higher than among nationals! And in Sweden, which has the most liberal refugee policy among European countries, employment rate among foreign-citizens is more than 20 percentage points lower than among nationals. Quite ironic that the countries that have the most to gain economically also adopt the most conservative immigration positions, eh?

I guess, reason might be that there are so many "foreign" specialists, CEOs, engineers and other "highly skilled" people (mostly from other European countries, not really refugees or "immigrants")) in Hungaria; which twists this "statistics" pretty much. While in Sweden these jobs are more likely filled with "Swedesh people", and most immigrants to Sweden are less educated and "unskilled" somehow, which means, they´re less likely to find a job (in a "high-tec society").

[Kelinfort]

If you knew how to do biased multiculturalism correctly, you wouldn't have an issue.

What you mean?

The reason why the United States has prospered so well with immigration is because of biased multiculturalism. People still remember their nationality and heritage, but think of themselves as American. They celebrate national holidays, adopt customs common to the US, and tend to integrate well. This approach has worked well. For those who were met with exclusion and segregation (blacks, for example), they remained poor and segregated.

What Europe needs to do is provide far more incentives for immigrants to work and integrate. Advertise commonalities, make refugees live by Europeans, challenge their traditionalism. Eventually they'll become full fledged citizens of your nation.

[Teemant]

What you mean?

The reason why the United States has prospered so well with immigration is because of biased multiculturalism. People still remember their nationality and heritage, but think of themselves as American. They celebrate national holidays, adopt customs common to the US, and tend to integrate well. This approach has worked well. For those who were met with exclusion and segregation (blacks, for example), they remained poor and segregated.

What Europe needs to do is provide far more incentives for immigrants to work and integrate. Advertise commonalities, make refugees live by Europeans, challenge their traditionalism. Eventually they'll become full fledged citizens of your nation.

They don't feel European and challenging their traditionalism is impossible in Europe - "outright discrimination". USA, Canada and Australia doesn't also have social welfare state like Europe. There is the incentive.

[Kelinfort]

The reason why the United States has prospered so well with immigration is because of biased multiculturalism. People still remember their nationality and heritage, but think of themselves as American. They celebrate national holidays, adopt customs common to the US, and tend to integrate well. This approach has worked well. For those who were met with exclusion and segregation (blacks, for example), they remained poor and segregated.

What Europe needs to do is provide far more incentives for immigrants to work and integrate. Advertise commonalities, make refugees live by Europeans, challenge their traditionalism. Eventually they'll become full fledged citizens of your nation.

They don't feel European and challenging their traditionalism is impossible in Europe - "outright discrimination". USA, Canada and Australia doesn't also have social welfare state like Europe. There is the incentive.

Then reform it. Estonia did it well.

Also, challenging traditionalism can be as simple as posting LGBT pride flags on street corners and banning genital mutilation.

[Sophisticated horrors]

What Europe needs to do is provide far more incentives for immigrants to work and integrate. Advertise commonalities, make refugees live by Europeans, challenge their traditionalism. Eventually they'll become full fledged citizens of your nation.

...like the "Mexican border fence", you mean ?

[Kelinfort]

What Europe needs to do is provide far more incentives for immigrants to work and integrate. Advertise commonalities, make refugees live by Europeans, challenge their traditionalism. Eventually they'll become full fledged citizens of your nation.

...like the "Mexican border fence", you mean ?

Racism will always persist amongst idiots.

[ErVaReAn rEpUbLiC]

What you mean?

The reason why the United States has prospered so well with immigration is because of biased multiculturalism. People still remember their nationality and heritage, but think of themselves as American. They celebrate national holidays, adopt customs common to the US, and tend to integrate well. This approach has worked well. For those who were met with exclusion and segregation (blacks, for example), they remained poor and segregated.

What Europe needs to do is provide far more incentives for immigrants to work and integrate. Advertise commonalities, make refugees live by Europeans, challenge their traditionalism. Eventually they'll become full fledged citizens of your nation.

Studies from Sweden (and I believe this applies to some other European countries as well) show that immigrants tend to search for work more intensely than native-born. And yet, integration into the labor markets have failed in many countries, with Sweden in particular failing horribly (again, a 20 percentage point employment gap between immigrants and nationals).

[Bratislavskaya]

USA, Canada and Australia doesn't also have social welfare state like Europe. There is the incentive.

No, people just tend to go to nations that are better off than their own. A lot of these people were going to Libya (pre-2011 the richest nation in Africa, and according to some "the envy of all Africa"). Now that it's a warzone there (thanks to us) not only are the refugees and migrants that previously settled in Libya coming to Europe, but many Libyans are coming over too.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

What is this "our" you speak of?
The culture of Britain wouldn't exist if it weren't for the colonial history - which involved a lot of pinching bits of foreigner's culture and encouraging them to move here.

British culture isn't a culture consisting of other cultures. Yes it had influences, but these haven't been big considering the difference between their colonies and themselves are enormous.

"Our": Rights for homosexuals, rights to free speech, rights to freedom of religion etc.

The British national drink comes from India, for fuck's sake. And I don't think that your freedom is under attack, though it's cute how people assume that the culture is so weak that it will fall when about 5% of the population follows Islam. Is Islam so nifty that the other 95% will immediately go "Wow, I have to get me some of that"?

[Aelex]

The reason why the United States has prospered so well with immigration is because of biased multiculturalism. People still remember their nationality and heritage, but think of themselves as American. They celebrate national holidays, adopt customs common to the US, and tend to integrate well. This approach has worked well. For those who were met with exclusion and segregation (blacks, for example), they remained poor and segregated.

What Europe needs to do is provide far more incentives for immigrants to work and integrate. Advertise commonalities, make refugees live by Europeans, challenge their traditionalism. Eventually they'll become full fledged citizens of your nation.

Good thing that it's something which is done since basically the 19th century.
Just look at France, a country who blobbed his minority so efficiently that in less than one century it managed to make disappear almost completely all the different regional "Patois", if you want to see an European country which is good at assimilating foreigners.
The problem is that even France; who even now is one of the most efficient into incorporating people, no matter from where they come from, into the national culture; is having problems with the acculturation of immigrants.
It's not something which can be easily resolved by providing work (which is already hard to find for the nationals) or using healthcare as incentive. Even the education system which, even I have to admit it, is almost to the level of propaganda have difficulty to integrate completely them.

Anyway, your last point made me kinda smile since, as an American, you're encouraging people to challenge the immigrants' traditionalism but as soon as something in this way is done, like banning the burqa by exemple, you (not you personally but your compatriots) immediately loose your minds and start screaming "Islamophobia" and "Oppression".

[Teemant]

The reason why the United States has prospered so well with immigration is because of biased multiculturalism. People still remember their nationality and heritage, but think of themselves as American. They celebrate national holidays, adopt customs common to the US, and tend to integrate well. This approach has worked well. For those who were met with exclusion and segregation (blacks, for example), they remained poor and segregated.

What Europe needs to do is provide far more incentives for immigrants to work and integrate. Advertise commonalities, make refugees live by Europeans, challenge their traditionalism. Eventually they'll become full fledged citizens of your nation.

Studies from Sweden (and I believe this applies to some other European countries as well) show that immigrants tend to search for work more intensely than native-born. And yet, integration into the labor markets have failed in many countries, with Sweden in particular failing horribly (again, a 20 percentage point employment gap between immigrants and nationals).

Education plays an important part here.

[Kelinfort]

The reason why the United States has prospered so well with immigration is because of biased multiculturalism. People still remember their nationality and heritage, but think of themselves as American. They celebrate national holidays, adopt customs common to the US, and tend to integrate well. This approach has worked well. For those who were met with exclusion and segregation (blacks, for example), they remained poor and segregated.

What Europe needs to do is provide far more incentives for immigrants to work and integrate. Advertise commonalities, make refugees live by Europeans, challenge their traditionalism. Eventually they'll become full fledged citizens of your nation.

Good thing that it's something which is done since basically the 19th century.
Just look at France, a country who blobbed his minority so efficiently that in less than one century it managed to make disappear almost completely all the different regional "Patois", if you want to see an European country which is good at assimilating foreigners.
The problem is that even France; who even now is one of the most efficient into incorporating people, no matter from where they come from, into the national culture; is having problems with the acculturation of immigrants.
It's not something which can be easily resolved by providing work (which is already hard to find for the nationals) or using healthcare as incentive. Even the education system which, even I have to admit it, is almost to the level of propaganda have difficulty to integrate completely them.

Anyway, your last point made me kinda smile since, as an American, you're encouraging people to challenge the immigrants' traditionalism but as soon as something in this way is done, like banning the burqa by exemple, you (not you personally but your compatriots) immediately loose your minds and start screaming "Islamophobia" and "Oppression".

Don't expect instant results. It took more than several generations for immigrants to be completely integrated into American society. The best course of action is to start quickly, educate immigrants, and help them get work. Within forty years, this problem will disappear.

Oh, and yes, many Americans tend to do that. But I don't think banning headdresses or the burqa will do much. If anything, it encourages defiance and contravenes free expression. The best course of action is to surround immigrants in the nation's culture and break down harmful stereotypes.

[Imperialisium]

Yes, only Europeans need their cultures challenged. Because Europeans preserving their cultural identity is wrong.

How about if immigrants don't like the way things are run in a country. Tough shit go somewhere else. Why should us Europeans give up our centuries if not older traditions to accommodate people who for the most part dislike us? Sorry, if you're offended by German customs then get the hell out of Germany. Thats why it is called Germany and not Turkomany, Algerany, Syriamany and so forth.

[Geilinor]

The reason why the United States has prospered so well with immigration is because of biased multiculturalism. People still remember their nationality and heritage, but think of themselves as American. They celebrate national holidays, adopt customs common to the US, and tend to integrate well. This approach has worked well. For those who were met with exclusion and segregation (blacks, for example), they remained poor and segregated.

What Europe needs to do is provide far more incentives for immigrants to work and integrate. Advertise commonalities, make refugees live by Europeans, challenge their traditionalism. Eventually they'll become full fledged citizens of your nation.

They don't feel European and challenging their traditionalism is impossible in Europe - "outright discrimination". USA, Canada and Australia doesn't also have social welfare state like Europe. There is the incentive.

Canada and Australia do have welfare states, but not to the same extent.

[Kelinfort]

Yes, only Europeans need their cultures challenged. Because Europeans preserving their cultural identity is wrong.

How about if immigrants don't like the way things are run in a country. Tough shit go somewhere else. Why should us Europeans give up our centuries if not older traditions to accommodate people who for the most part dislike us? Sorry, if you're offended by German customs then get the hell out of Germany. Thats why it is called Germany and not Turkomany, Algerany, Syriamany and so forth.

I think we ought to kick every European not historically from the UK out of the US. We must reclaim our culture, of course. That includes the Irish.

[Imperialisium]

Yes, only Europeans need their cultures challenged. Because Europeans preserving their cultural identity is wrong.

How about if immigrants don't like the way things are run in a country. Tough shit go somewhere else. Why should us Europeans give up our centuries if not older traditions to accommodate people who for the most part dislike us? Sorry, if you're offended by German customs then get the hell out of Germany. Thats why it is called Germany and not Turkomany, Algerany, Syriamany and so forth.

I think we ought to kick every European not historically from the UK out of the US. We must reclaim our culture, of course. That includes the Irish.

Hey, if thats how the British want to run it. Fine by me, it is their country, not mine. Countries have done that in the past many times over.

[Kelinfort]

I think we ought to kick every European not historically from the UK out of the US. We must reclaim our culture, of course. That includes the Irish.

Hey, if thats how the British want to run it. Fine by me, it is their country, not mine. Countries have done that in the past many times over.

The British will go too. After all, they're not American. America for Americans.

[Arkinesia]

Europe must continue to accept immigrants, or leave millions of future retirees to die in poverty. Those are their only options, short of the most massive entitlement reforms in Western history, reforms with absolutely no precedent.

So I say, good on the Germans for recognizing fact over fiction (for once).

[Gallia-]

OP should take a look at German population predictions for the next couple of decades and ask himself what is really killing Europe. o:

Indeed. Declining birthrates are quite the significant issue, and the fact that the large economic and social issues which prevent individuals from pursuing having a child, or children, by governments, has had a significant effect on European demographics, and particularly in the aging, and depopulation of many developed nations' demographics, which must be addressed.

The only way to address declining TFR is introducing viable and sustainable, long-term immigration, hence why Scandinavia, France, UK, and America aren't going to be going extinct in population predictions. o:

Good thing that it's something which is done since basically the 19th century.
Just look at France, a country who blobbed his minority so efficiently that in less than one century it managed to make disappear almost completely all the different regional "Patois", if you want to see an European country which is good at assimilating foreigners.
The problem is that even France; who even now is one of the most efficient into incorporating people, no matter from where they come from, into the national culture; is having problems with the acculturation of immigrants.
It's not something which can be easily resolved by providing work (which is already hard to find for the nationals) or using healthcare as incentive. Even the education system which, even I have to admit it, is almost to the level of propaganda have difficulty to integrate completely them.

Anyway, your last point made me kinda smile since, as an American, you're encouraging people to challenge the immigrants' traditionalism but as soon as something in this way is done, like banning the burqa by exemple, you (not you personally but your compatriots) immediately loose your minds and start screaming "Islamophobia" and "Oppression".

Don't expect instant results. It took more than several generations for immigrants to be completely integrated into American society. The best course of action is to start quickly, educate immigrants, and help them get work. Within forty years, this problem will disappear.

Oh, and yes, many Americans tend to do that. But I don't think banning headdresses or the burqa will do much. If anything, it encourages defiance and contravenes free expression. The best course of action is to surround immigrants in the nation's culture and break down harmful stereotypes.

How do you have "several generations" of immigrants? An immigrant is someone from a foreign country, not a native born to naturalized parents.

[Imperialisium]

Hey, if thats how the British want to run it. Fine by me, it is their country, not mine. Countries have done that in the past many times over.

The British will go too. After all, they're not American. America for Americans.

Sorry I misread you. If the American citizenry want it that way, it is their country so let them do what they want with it.

[Tierra Prime]

Yes, only Europeans need their cultures challenged. Because Europeans preserving their cultural identity is wrong.

How about if immigrants don't like the way things are run in a country. Tough shit go somewhere else. Why should us Europeans give up our centuries if not older traditions to accommodate people who for the most part dislike us? Sorry, if you're offended by German customs then get the hell out of Germany. Thats why it is called Germany and not Turkomany, Algerany, Syriamany and so forth.

I think we ought to kick every European not historically from the UK out of the US. We must reclaim our culture, of course. That includes the Irish.

America is a melting-pot, there is no such thing as "American culture" or whatever, but European culture is most certainly real.

He has a a point, why should we change our culture for others? Our culture is our way of life, and if people don't like it, they can go elsewhere.

You've seen how the likes of Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Egypt respond to anything remotely foreign. We can't practice our religions or cultural traditions over there, but their people want free reign in our countries?

[Kelinfort]

Indeed. Declining birthrates are quite the significant issue, and the fact that the large economic and social issues which prevent individuals from pursuing having a child, or children, by governments, has had a significant effect on European demographics, and particularly in the aging, and depopulation of many developed nations' demographics, which must be addressed.

The only way to address declining TFR is introducing viable and sustainable, long-term immigration, hence why Scandinavia, France, UK, and America aren't going to be going extinct in population predictions. o:

Don't expect instant results. It took more than several generations for immigrants to be completely integrated into American society. The best course of action is to start quickly, educate immigrants, and help them get work. Within forty years, this problem will disappear.

Oh, and yes, many Americans tend to do that. But I don't think banning headdresses or the burqa will do much. If anything, it encourages defiance and contravenes free expression. The best course of action is to surround immigrants in the nation's culture and break down harmful stereotypes.

How do you have "several generations" of immigrants? An immigrant is someone from a foreign country, not a native born to naturalized parents.

Immigrants and their descendants, you grammar nazi

[Arkinesia]

I think we ought to kick every European not historically from the UK out of the US. We must reclaim our culture, of course. That includes the Irish.

America is a melting-pot, there is no such thing as "American culture" or whatever, but European culture is most certainly real.

He has a a point, why should we change our culture for others? Our culture is our way of life, and if people don't like it, they can go elsewhere.

You've seen how the likes of Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Egypt respond to anything remotely foreign. We can't practice our religions or cultural traditions over there, but their people want free reign in our countries?

Then Europeans better get crackin' on cracks. Have you seen European birthrates? The place will be depopulated in a few hundred years without immigration. Socialism assumes population growth and Europe isn't growing but for immigrants. You should be thankful that people are willing to move to countries actively hostile to their existence so they can pay for your retirement.