European Migrant Crisis Megathread

[Novus America]

You're right, if I were a British citizen I would also demand that my country get its fair share of immigration. Germany shouldn't get to hog all the Syrians, it's plain unfair.

If any country wanted more of them they could have them. In the case of Syrians supply greatly exceeds demand.

[Allanea]

What provable, quantifiable problem is there?

[Valystria]

Here you go. He is not going to be suspended at all - only investigated - and it is not related to him raising safety concerns.

In other news, the islamophobes lied again.

http://www.asianimage.co.uk/news/143256 ... rf_claims/

He's been investigated and suspended. Multiple sources are claiming he was suspended, and you've yet to find one saying otherwise.
You've also thrown out Islamophobe in lieu of an argument, in typical fashion.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/650406 ... -Sheffield

If one takes a look at the article presented by Allanea, one will find it says...

http://www.asianimage.co.uk/news/143256 ... rf_claims/

A hospital consultant is being investigated over claims he made about a Muslim surgeon wearing a headscarf.

Dr Vladislav Rogozov, a consultant anaesthetist, is being investigated by Sheffield Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust over a blog in which he said he confronted the surgeon and asked her to remove the scarf.

The trust would not confirm that Dr Rogozov had been suspended - only that he was being investigated

The NHS refusing to deny that Dr Rogozov has been suspended is not equal to "He is not going to be suspended at all - only investigated".

Name calling goes hand in hand with misinformation and misrepresentation.

No, I have not thrown it out 'in lieu' of an argument.

I have made a specific argument: that the actual authority which has made the decisions with regards to Dr. Rogozov denies hte claims made about this incident by The Sun, Daily Mail, and other media (a variety of tabloids, principally).

The fact I also call them islamophobes doesn't replace the argument, it comes in addition to the - their record of fear-mongering about Muslim immigration and terrorism is well-known.

In other words, this is not me saying "their argument is wrong, because they're islamophobes" - that would be an ad hominem. This is me saying "their argument is wrong. Also they're islamophobes."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabloid_(newspaper_format)

A tabloid is a newspaper with compact page size smaller than broadsheet, although there is no standard for the precise dimensions of the tabloid newspaper format. The term tabloid journalism, along with the use of large pictures, tends to emphasize topics such as sensational crime stories, astrology, celebrity gossip and television. However, some reputable newspapers, such as The Independent[1] and The Times, are in tabloid format, and this size is used in the United Kingdom by nearly all local newspapers/

Do read about what tabloid means before using it an as an excuse to no platform. Now please stop no platforming every news outlet who doesn't support your version of events.

Already you've been caught making false claims, and you're continuing to do so instead of debating honestly.

[Ostroeuropa]

You're right, if I were a British citizen I would also demand that my country get its fair share of immigration. Germany shouldn't get to hog all the Syrians, it's plain unfair.

Haha, c'mon, thats not the point I'm trying to get across.

Britain has taken a small sliver of Syrian refugees, whereas Germany has been burdened. Do you see what I'm getting at? Britain shouldn't have to accept more than it can take, but they have effectively closed their doors to most applicants, leaving the burden on a select few countries.

Germanies unilateral action in this matter is what caused this problem in the first place.
If they act alone and then demand solidarity to deal with their own fuck up, why should we listen?

Had they acted united with the rest of Europe, i'd agree with you.
They stepped out of line and are now demanding we deal with it. Why should we.

[MolokoPlus]

Haha, c'mon, thats not the point I'm trying to get across.

Britain has taken a small sliver of Syrian refugees, whereas Germany has been burdened. Do you see what I'm getting at? Britain shouldn't have to accept more than it can take, but they have effectively closed their doors to most applicants, leaving the burden on a select few countries.

Germanies unilateral action in this matter is what caused this problem in the first place.
If they act alone and then demand solidarity to deal with their own fuck up, why should we listen?

Had they acted united with the rest of Europe, i'd agree with you.
They stepped out of line and are now demanding we deal with it. Why should we.

Sure, Merkel fucked up, as did the rest of the Bundestag. However, I say this as a humanitarian and Christian both, its morally wrong to deny entry to thousands of those in need while simultaneously letting the German citizens(who are just as pissed at Merkel) deal with more than their infrastructure and social structure can handle.

Syrians aren't a bunch of hot potatoes to be passed around, not a statistic to be carefully looked at. They're people, and while many are fundamentalist and barely educated, many are middle class families that could be of benefit to the stagnating European economies. Its common sense, and I dislike the notion that Syrians are a class of people that are to be "dealt with."

[Ostroeuropa]

Germanies unilateral action in this matter is what caused this problem in the first place.
If they act alone and then demand solidarity to deal with their own fuck up, why should we listen?

Had they acted united with the rest of Europe, i'd agree with you.
They stepped out of line and are now demanding we deal with it. Why should we.

Sure, Merkel fucked up, as did the rest of the Bundestag. However, I say this as a humanitarian and Christian both, its morally wrong to deny entry to thousands of those in need while simultaneously letting the German citizens(who are just as pissed at Merkel) deal with more than their infrastructure and social structure can handle.

Syrians aren't a bunch of hot potatoes to be passed around, not a statistic to be carefully looked at. They're people, and while many are fundamentalist and barely educated, many are middle class families that could be of benefit to the stagnating European economies. Its common sense, and I dislike the notion that Syrians are a class of people that are to be "dealt with."

Our infrastructure and social structure is already pushed to breaking point too, as it much of europes.
I've seen no evidence that middle class islamic families are any better.

Further, most of the migrants are not Syrians as has been repeatedly shown.
Only 1/5 of those turning up in Europe are from Syria.

While your attitude is commendable for a front line aid worker, it's not one that should guide public policy, which must be taken with a more practical view disconnected from emotion.

[Geilinor]

Our infrastructure and social structure is already pushed to breaking point too, as it much of europes.
I've seen no evidence that middle class islamic families are any better.

Further, most of the migrants are not Syrians as has been repeatedly shown.
Only 1/5 of those turning up in Europe are from Syria.

While your attitude is commendable for a front line aid worker, it's not one that should guide public policy, which must be taken with a more practical view disconnected from emotion.

Middle-class Muslim families can benefit your economy. Arab-Americans are wealthier than the average American, for example.http://iipdigital.usembassy.gov/st/english/inbrief/2013/06/20130614276328.html#axzz42HFHxRUg

[Zoice]

I don't support that religious discrimination, in favour of or against religious believers. Do you know how you get people to integrate? Not by banning them from the country and encouraging us vs them mentalities.

Stop generalizing all Muslims as the same and making a false dichotomy between pro-islamism SJW's and going full Hitler.

As me and Valystria have repeatedly shown, it's a majority of them that are the problem.

That does not justify religious discrimination.

[Allanea]

The NHS refusing to deny that Dr Rogozov has been suspended is not equal to "He is not going to be suspended at all - only investigated".

They're not 'refusing to deny that Dr. Rogozov has been suspended, they're refusing to confirm that.

Do read about what tabloid means before using it an as an excuse to no platform. Now please stop no platforming every news outlet who doesn't support your version of events.

You know full well that calling a source non-credible is not "no-platforming". I think only hte mods of this site could "no-platform" someone here.

But let's look at a typical "The Sun" headline so we could discuss how credible this newspaper is:

These are the guys who published fake push polls about Muslims supposedly being pro-ISIS,.

They also did this:

And this:
(all allegations were a lie)


And this:

And this:



Need I go on?

[Ghatawerpya]

While your attitude is commendable for a front line aid worker, it's not one that should guide public policy, which must be taken with a more practical view disconnected from emotion.

So you're not a cultural relativist. But morality comes from emotion according to you?

That's a strange combination.

[Ostroeuropa]

While your attitude is commendable for a front line aid worker, it's not one that should guide public policy, which must be taken with a more practical view disconnected from emotion.

So you're not a cultural relativist. But morality comes from emotion according to you?

That's a strange combination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik

[Ghatawerpya]

So you're not a cultural relativist. But morality comes from emotion according to you?

That's a strange combination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik

Yes and?

[Allanea]

Politics are meaningless if divorced from morality.

[Ostroeuropa]

Politics are meaningless if divorced from morality.

That's a fine assertion you've made.

As me and Valystria have repeatedly shown, it's a majority of them that are the problem.

That does not justify religious discrimination.

Aztecs.

[Zoice]

Politics are meaningless if divorced from morality.

That's a fine assertion you've made.

That does not justify religious discrimination.

Aztecs.

Don't discriminate against Mexicans please. Murderers are murderers and should be treated as such, but not all Muslims are evil ISIS fighters.

[Ostroeuropa]

That's a fine assertion you've made.



Aztecs.

Don't discriminate against Mexicans please. Murderers are murderers and should be treated as such, but not all Muslims are evil ISIS fighters.

I'm fine with arabs, africans, asians, and europeans coming, so the mexican comparison doesn't fly.

No, but a majority have problematic views for society and have been shown to cause a chilling effect on the freedoms of the population and the efficiency of their institutions. A significant number will also be ISIS fighters, but those aren't a primary concern.

[Zoice]

Don't discriminate against Mexicans please. Murderers are murderers and should be treated as such, but not all Muslims are evil ISIS fighters.

I'm fine with arabs, africans, asians, and europeans coming, so the mexican comparison doesn't fly.

No, but a majority have problematic views for society and have been shown to cause a chilling effect on the freedoms of the population and the efficiency of their institutions. A significant number will also be ISIS fighters, but those aren't a primary concern.

We solve those problems by being adamant that we all follow the same law regardless of religion, and of that isn't the case then it should be.

I don't think it helps anything to ban Muslims. All that does is further reinforce the divide between people.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm fine with arabs, africans, asians, and europeans coming, so the mexican comparison doesn't fly.

No, but a majority have problematic views for society and have been shown to cause a chilling effect on the freedoms of the population and the efficiency of their institutions. A significant number will also be ISIS fighters, but those aren't a primary concern.

We solve those problems by being adamant that we all follow the same law regardless of religion, and of that isn't the case then it should be.

I don't think it helps anything to ban Muslims. All that does is further reinforce the divide between people.

It isn't the case, largely due to SJWs and Islamic communities and their leaders making sure it cannot be the case.

[Zoice]

We solve those problems by being adamant that we all follow the same law regardless of religion, and of that isn't the case then it should be.

I don't think it helps anything to ban Muslims. All that does is further reinforce the divide between people.

It isn't the case, largely due to SJWs and Islamic communities and their leaders making sure it cannot be the case.

So we try to change that, and remind misguided people that allowing violence inside religious groups only serves to hurt people in that group. Your solution of banning Muslim migrants doesn't help.

[Allanea]

That's a fine assertion you've made.

Let us see.

Politicians take actions to achieve goals.

What are the goals that should be achieved? That is a moral question.

[Ostroeuropa]

It isn't the case, largely due to SJWs and Islamic communities and their leaders making sure it cannot be the case.

So we try to change that, and remind misguided people that allowing violence inside religious groups only serves to hurt people in that group. Your solution of banning Muslim migrants doesn't help.

Temporarily banning them.

[Allanea]

How do you plan to enforce this ban? Muslims hardly have "Muslim" written on their forehead.

[Zoice]

So we try to change that, and remind misguided people that allowing violence inside religious groups only serves to hurt people in that group. Your solution of banning Muslim migrants doesn't help.

Temporarily banning them.

Ahern, allow me to correct myself then.

So we try to change that, and remind misguided people that allowing violence inside religious groups only serves to hurt people in that group. Your solution of temporarily banning Muslim migrants doesn't help.

[The Alma Mater]

Temporarily banning them.

Ahern, allow me to correct myself then.

So we try to change that, and remind misguided people that allowing violence inside religious groups only serves to hurt people in that group. Your solution of temporarily banning Muslim migrants doesn't help.

You realise that your proposed solution does not work ? It has only been tried for 50 years or so, with negative results.

[Zoice]

Ahern, allow me to correct myself then.

So we try to change that, and remind misguided people that allowing violence inside religious groups only serves to hurt people in that group. Your solution of temporarily banning Muslim migrants doesn't help.

You realise that your proposed solution does not work ? It has only been tried for 50 years or so, with negative results.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that internment and or deportation on the basis of religious discrimination had such a pure history of success.

It is better than the alternative, and there is some amount of integration that has happened, though not enough. Again, reinforcing lines between groups is the worst thing you could do.