European Migrant Crisis Megathread

[Ghatawerpya]

You're using the dumb "liberal university intellectuals" stereotype. I expect better substantiated arguments from you, Balk.

Let me put this in a way that might make since.

What Europe is doing is shooting itself in the foot and calling it progress, for the third time in a hundred years.

For some fucking reason, there is a concession among the left that European nation states MUST be multicultural, despite said nation states were created for the people living within their borders, as Germans, Italian, Poles, Czechs and French. And now the the EU is some bloated bureaucratic nightmare that appears to place priority on migrants instead of the Natives that have been living there for centuries.

For a while ive been on the fence, but with the rotherham scandal, Charlie hebdo and the cologne attacks...its hard not to be skeptical of leftists that scream up and down that there is no problem with Immigration in Europe.

So you're suggesting Europe become sectarian?

[Salandriagado]

You're using the dumb "liberal university intellectuals" stereotype. I expect better substantiated arguments from you, Balk.

Let me put this in a way that might make since.

What Europe is doing is shooting itself in the foot and calling it progress, for the third time in a hundred years.

For some fucking reason, there is a concession among the left that European nation states MUST be multicultural, despite said nation states were created for the people living within their borders, as Germans, Italian, Poles, Czechs and French. And now the the EU is some bloated bureaucratic nightmare that appears to place priority on migrants instead of the Natives that have been living there for centuries.

For a while ive been on the fence, but with the rotherham scandal, Charlie hebdo and the cologne attacks...its hard not to be skeptical of leftists that scream up and down that there is no problem with Immigration in Europe.

None of this is remotely to do with universities.

[Leudal (Ancient)]

As a Dutch citizen i support taking in refugees although some serious changes have to be made in terms of how the government handles the entire immigration.

[Farnhamia]

Because on this issue we are playing the EU integrity. We as the EU, we have acceded to the Geneva Convention, and we have the Schengen Borders Code. I think you see how in fact every country does what he want to do. The re-opening of internal borders, the barbed wire, and these things here. The question of immigration is undermining our system. Because if we are not able to put aside our pathetic nationalism and work as one great organ, then as a union we have failed. Just to make you understand, the situation we are experiencing is compatible with Article 26 of the Code.

In exceptional circumstances, where the overall functioning of the Schengen area is put at risk as a result of persistent serious deficiencies relating to external border control, and insofar as those circumstances constitute a serious threat to public policy or internal security, the Council may, based on a proposal from the Commission, recommend that one or more Member States decide to reintroduce border control at all or at specific parts of their internal borders. Such a recommendation shall only be made as a last resort and as a measure to protect the common interests within the Schengen area, where all other measures, in particular those referred to in Article 19a(1) of the Schengen Borders Code, are ineffective in mitigating the serious threat identified.

You may say, "What does all this with immigrants?" It got to do. Schegen report special cases and requires specific rules to reintroduce internal borders.In reality, every State does not follow these rules. And in the meantime, the flows do not stop. So you have this situation: there is a system of rules where laws are not followed, but only using exceptions. Basically, you deny the rule.
If you do not manage the flows, the Code allows the elimination of the Schengen acquis.
Now imagine an EU without freedom of movement. What do you think happens next?

It doesn't mean we got to stop freedom of movement. We just got to kick these overreacting rapefugees out of our continent (and kick those Turks and Moroccans out when we're at it too) and help finance border protection of the outer borders of the European Union. Honestly, I think it might be better to return to cooperation between countries when it comes to several economic sectors instead of turning it into a soviet hellhole ruled by your kind.

*** Warned for trolling. ***

[Socialist Czechia]

While I agree with your second point, you're yourself exaggerating on the first.
France, Britain and Germany are still important on the world's stage given that they're still Great Powers who're able to influence lesser nations.
They aren't the Super-Powers they used to be but they are far from being "irrelevants" neither.

Point is, that EU (EEC) was created to make these states one Super-Power together one day, since after loss colonial empires and irredentist dreams they are hardly more than local powers, never doing anything important without approval of USA.
Like, seriously, France without nukes would be hardly more important on world's stage than Poland or Sweden.

And for Britain, Commonwealth is much more important than any such continental project, due to historical and cultural reasons.

[Jochistan]

Because on this issue we are playing the EU integrity. We as the EU, we have acceded to the Geneva Convention, and we have the Schengen Borders Code. I think you see how in fact every country does what he want to do. The re-opening of internal borders, the barbed wire, and these things here. The question of immigration is undermining our system. Because if we are not able to put aside our pathetic nationalism and work as one great organ, then as a union we have failed. Just to make you understand, the situation we are experiencing is compatible with Article 26 of the Code.

In exceptional circumstances, where the overall functioning of the Schengen area is put at risk as a result of persistent serious deficiencies relating to external border control, and insofar as those circumstances constitute a serious threat to public policy or internal security, the Council may, based on a proposal from the Commission, recommend that one or more Member States decide to reintroduce border control at all or at specific parts of their internal borders. Such a recommendation shall only be made as a last resort and as a measure to protect the common interests within the Schengen area, where all other measures, in particular those referred to in Article 19a(1) of the Schengen Borders Code, are ineffective in mitigating the serious threat identified.

You may say, "What does all this with immigrants?" It got to do. Schegen report special cases and requires specific rules to reintroduce internal borders.In reality, every State does not follow these rules. And in the meantime, the flows do not stop. So you have this situation: there is a system of rules where laws are not followed, but only using exceptions. Basically, you deny the rule.
If you do not manage the flows, the Code allows the elimination of the Schengen acquis.
Now imagine an EU without freedom of movement. What do you think happens next?

It doesn't mean we got to stop freedom of movement. We just got to kick these overreacting rapefugees out of our continent (and kick those Turks and Moroccans out when we're at it too) and help finance border protection of the outer borders of the European Union. Honestly, I think it might be better to return to cooperation between countries when it comes to several economic sectors instead of turning it into a soviet hellhole ruled by your kind.

Why the Turks and Morrocans? Thought it was the Levantines and Pakistanis with the fundamentalism and anti-integration problem?

[Jochistan]

Yep. As a patriot myself, I simply can't understand the notion of Multiculturalism inside nation-states. How could you want to forfeit your own culture inside your own country? It's something that is just beyond stupidity.

It's a result of anti-western narratives dominating universities and indoctrinating the middle class into self-loathing and contempt for their nations and history by casting western civilization as the root of all evil.
(Mostly from universities being dominated by super butthurt marxist professors who hate capitalism laying the groundwork for social sciences.)

What do Marxists have to do with anything? Not that I agree with Marxists, but it sounds like you're just shitting out buzzwords and regurgitated arguments.

[The Alma Mater]

It doesn't mean we got to stop freedom of movement. We just got to kick these overreacting rapefugees out of our continent (and kick those Turks and Moroccans out when we're at it too) and help finance border protection of the outer borders of the European Union. Honestly, I think it might be better to return to cooperation between countries when it comes to several economic sectors instead of turning it into a soviet hellhole ruled by your kind.

Why the Turks and Morrocans? Thought it was the Levantines and Pakistanis with the fundamentalism and anti-integration problem?

No,in the Netherlands that is definately the Moroccans.
The Turks otoh do relatively well.

[Allanea]

Calling people "rapefugees" because a tiny proportion of them has committed crimes is horrible and disgusting.

There is absolutely no debate possible of the fact that Syria and Lybia are actual war zones, and therefore people fleeing them are refugees.

[Novus America]

Calling people "rapefugees" because a tiny proportion of them has committed crimes is horrible and disgusting.

There is absolutely no debate possible of the fact that Syria and Lybia are actual war zones, and therefore people fleeing them are refugees.

Fleeing a warzone does not automatically make you a refugee. The convention does not mention warzones.

[Jochistan]

Why the Turks and Morrocans? Thought it was the Levantines and Pakistanis with the fundamentalism and anti-integration problem?

No,in the Netherlands that is definately the Moroccans.
The Turks otoh do relatively well.

Morrocans seem alright. Nothing much wrong with them. They weren't the ones in Cologne were they? Anyway, Western Europeans consider wearing a Djelleba in public to be "anti-integration", so I, ah, kind of have a hard time with their accusations of such attitudes.

Levantines and Pakistanis are mainly the cultures that have been going though legitimately fundamentalist shit and cause problemos there. So yeeeeaah.

[Jochistan]

The whole anti Muslim sentiment in Europe is pretty worrisome, so is the rise of Wahhabis in the Muslim communitues there. Who are usually nuts.

While other parts of Europe are turning rabid like that, I'd support Bosnia and Albania to turn to forms of Fascism or Nationalist regimes as a bastion for European Muslims in the face of Wahhabism among migrants and Ultranationalism (for them I'd make an exeption) among other Europeans.
The Albanian National Front and especially the SDA in Bosnia would be exellent candidates for power.

Both are strongly nationalist and conservative, religiously tolerant (although only the former is secular) and able enough to stengthen the Balkan Islamic Nations against hostile foreigners and fundamentalists.

Hopefully it doesn't come to that though.

[The Alma Mater]

No,in the Netherlands that is definately the Moroccans.
The Turks otoh do relatively well.

Morrocans seem alright. Nothing much wrong with them.

Except the overwhelming overrepresentation in crime statistics and openly racist attitude displayed by the youths and young adults, and the high unemployment and failure to have learned the language after living in the country for over 30 years as displayed by the grownups you mean ?

While the integration of Turks certainly is not perfect, they at least on average do their utmost best to get a job/start their own business and teach their children that robbing others is a bad thing (tm). Had they been the dominant group of muslims in the country people would have been vastly less negative.

[Jochistan]

Morrocans seem alright. Nothing much wrong with them.

Except the overwhelming overrepresentation in crime statistics and openly racist attitude displayed by the youths and young adults, and the high unemployment and failure to have learned the language after living in the country for over 30 years as displayed by the grownups you mean ?

While the integration of Turks certainly is not perfect, they at least on average do their utmost best to get a job/start their own business and teach their children that robbing others is a bad thing (tm). Had they been the dominant group of muslims in the country people would have been vastly less negative.

No argument there.

I was under the impression Levantines and Somalians had the overrepresentation in crime and all that shit. Even so. I don't think it would be healthy for you to judge explicitly based on race or religion for everyday folks. Nor should you let political correctness hinder your judgement of the situation either.

[Allanea]

Calling people "rapefugees" because a tiny proportion of them has committed crimes is horrible and disgusting.

There is absolutely no debate possible of the fact that Syria and Lybia are actual war zones, and therefore people fleeing them are refugees.

Fleeing a warzone does not automatically make you a refugee. The convention does not mention warzones.

I'm sure there's some legalese agreement you can invoke to argue that people that are fleeing a county which is embroiled in civil war between something like eight ultra-brutal factions are not refugees, but I don't really care and neither should anyone.

[Socialist Czechia]

The whole anti Muslim sentiment in Europe is pretty worrisome, so is the rise of Wahhabis in the Muslim communitues there. Who are usually nuts.

While other parts of Europe are turning rabid like that, I'd support Bosnia and Albania to turn to forms of Fascism or Nationalist regimes as a bastion for European Muslims in the face of Wahhabism among migrants and Ultranationalism (for them I'd make an exeption) among other Europeans.
The Albanian National Front and especially the SDA in Bosnia would be exellent candidates for power.

Both are strongly nationalist and conservative, religiously tolerant (although only the former is secular) and able enough to stengthen the Balkan Islamic Nations against hostile foreigners and fundamentalists.

Hopefully it doesn't come to that though.

Europe will once again fall into fascism anyway. Process already started similarly as it started and rose between 1920-1940. But fascists are merely a symptoms, not disease. Because as we should all know, fascism is capitalism in decay (Lenin), and no right-winger can disprove, that capitalism contains circles of rise and fall.
Rise of fascism is mostly fault of both social democrats and conservatives, unable to face problems and fears of masses. Again.

Thankfully, it seems that radical left and revolutionary thoughts are rising again as well. When everything goes to s*it, you simply can't defeat fascism by pacifism and reasonable arguments.

[Ganos Lao]

The whole anti Muslim sentiment in Europe is pretty worrisome, so is the rise of Wahhabis in the Muslim communitues there. Who are usually nuts.

While other parts of Europe are turning rabid like that, I'd support Bosnia and Albania to turn to forms of Fascism or Nationalist regimes as a bastion for European Muslims in the face of Wahhabism among migrants and Ultranationalism (for them I'd make an exeption) among other Europeans.
The Albanian National Front and especially the SDA in Bosnia would be exellent candidates for power.

Both are strongly nationalist and conservative, religiously tolerant (although only the former is secular) and able enough to stengthen the Balkan Islamic Nations against hostile foreigners and fundamentalists.

Hopefully it doesn't come to that though.

Europe will once again fall into fascism anyway. Process already started similarly as it started and rose between 1920-1940. But fascists are merely a symptoms, not disease. Because as we should all know, fascism is capitalism in decay (Lenin), and no right-winger can disprove, that capitalism contains circles of rise and fall.
Rise of fascism is mostly fault of both social democrats and conservatives, unable to face problems and fears of masses. Again.

Thankfully, it seems that radical left and revolutionary thoughts are rising again as well. When everything goes to s*it, you simply can't defeat fascism by pacifism and reasonable arguments.

Well, you know the old saying, don't you? Those who don't know how history works are condemned to repeat it.

[Jochistan]

The whole anti Muslim sentiment in Europe is pretty worrisome, so is the rise of Wahhabis in the Muslim communitues there. Who are usually nuts.

While other parts of Europe are turning rabid like that, I'd support Bosnia and Albania to turn to forms of Fascism or Nationalist regimes as a bastion for European Muslims in the face of Wahhabism among migrants and Ultranationalism (for them I'd make an exeption) among other Europeans.
The Albanian National Front and especially the SDA in Bosnia would be exellent candidates for power.

Both are strongly nationalist and conservative, religiously tolerant (although only the former is secular) and able enough to stengthen the Balkan Islamic Nations against hostile foreigners and fundamentalists.

Hopefully it doesn't come to that though.

Europe will once again fall into fascism anyway. Process already started similarly as it started and rose between 1920-1940. But fascists are merely a symptoms, not disease. Because as we should all know, fascism is capitalism in decay (Lenin), and no right-winger can disprove, that capitalism contains circles of rise and fall.
Rise of fascism is mostly fault of both social democrats and conservatives, unable to face problems and fears of masses. Again.

Thankfully, it seems that radical left and revolutionary thoughts are rising again as well. When everything goes to s*it, you simply can't defeat fascism by pacifism and reasonable arguments.

Fascism isn't always terrible. When handled by Parties that have just reasons to do what they do and good policies to make a haven for their people away from Nazis and Wahhabis.

The PBK handles it well. As do the not fascist but conservative nationalist SNP.

[Socialist Czechia]

Well, you know the old saying, don't you? Those who don't know how history works are condemned to repeat it.

I get that feeling every time seeing EU's flag.

You can't simply make all people around compatriots so easily, just like that, after centuries of struggles, power games and occasional genocides

[Ganos Lao]

Well, you know the old saying, don't you? Those who don't know how history works are condemned to repeat it.

I get that feeling every time seeing EU's flag.

You can't simply make all people around compatriots so easily, just like that, after centuries of struggles, power games and occasional genocides

Forget about all that; you're literally putting your trust in the same guys who ended up instigating the creation of the problem that led to the migrant crisis in the first place. Should we really be surprised knowing that people learned nothing from 2003 and it all blew up in their faces again? I'd say they'd deserve it, but they're not the ones who'll suffer the results of their folly, but the common man, woman and child whose only "crime," if anything, is mere guilt by association.

The Paris red flags being missed, the support of al-Maliki in Iraq, the insistence on the removal of Assad without a real plan post-Assad: What did people expect was going to happen?

We are literally living in an Onion article. That's how ludicrous this all is.

[Socialist Czechia]

Forget about all that; you're literally putting your trust in the same guys who ended up instigating the creation of the problem that led to the migrant crisis in the first place. Should we really be surprised knowing that people learned nothing from 2003 and it all blew up in their faces again? I'd say they'd deserve it, but they're not the ones who'll suffer the results of their folly, but the common man, woman and child whose only "crime," if anything, is mere guilt by association.

The Paris red flags being missed, the support of al-Maliki in Iraq, the insistence on the removal of Assad without a real plan post-Assad: What did people expect was going to happen?

We are literally living in an Onion article. That's how ludicrous this all is.

That's because whole 'Western world' is in decay. There's no real plan for the future. Just failing struggle to maintain status quo. There's no one able to say 'perhaps it's all wrong'.

Was there anyone in 1990s who proposed dissolution of NATO, for example? Since 1990, why it exists? To bully states with no chance to survive total war, like Serbia or Iraq?
Did someone considered, that perhaps, Putin and others like him in Russia are so succesful, because NATO still exists? That if it didn't exist anymore, there would be true democracy today, since nationalists would be without ammo (foreign threat)?

[Allanea]

Did someone considered, that perhaps, Putin and others like him in Russia are so succesful, because NATO still exists? That if it didn't exist anymore, there would be true democracy today, since nationalists would be without ammo (foreign threat)?

What is so successful about Putin?

And Russian nationalists are in opposition in Russia, Putin routinely arrests them and puts them in PRison.

[Ganos Lao]

That's because whole 'Western world' is in decay. There's no real plan for the future. Just failing struggle to maintain status quo. There's no one able to say 'perhaps it's all wrong'.

That pretty much sums it up.

The signs are all there. The politicians don't really give a shit. Remember when the Mayor of Cologne's take on the controversy in her city was "keep men at arm's length"?

For me, that said it all right there.

And if they ever do give a shit, it's to feed their pockets. Why do you think the Middle East is the way it is?

Peace just ain't profitable. Everything - ISIS, the migrants, etc - it all amounts to cold, hard cash being more important than the reality that bodies grow cold in the morgues.

I'm personally just waiting for the next Breivik to start shooting up some joints somewhere.

[Jochistan]

That's because whole 'Western world' is in decay. There's no real plan for the future. Just failing struggle to maintain status quo. There's no one able to say 'perhaps it's all wrong'.

That pretty much sums it up.

The signs are all there. The politicians don't really give a shit. Remember when the Mayor of Cologne's take on the controversy in her city was "keep men at arm's length"?

For me, that said it all right there.

And if they ever do give a shit, it's to feed their pockets. Why do you think the Middle East is the way it is?

Peace just ain't profitable. Everything - ISIS, the migrants, etc - it all amounts to cold, hard cash being more important than the reality that bodies grow cold in the morgues.

I'm personally just waiting for the next Breivik to start shooting up some joints somewhere.

Almost happened already. Xept with fire.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-34957358

[Jochistan]

That's because whole 'Western world' is in decay. There's no real plan for the future. Just failing struggle to maintain status quo. There's no one able to say 'perhaps it's all wrong'.

That pretty much sums it up.

The signs are all there. The politicians don't really give a shit. Remember when the Mayor of Cologne's take on the controversy in her city was "keep men at arm's length"?

For me, that said it all right there.

And if they ever do give a shit, it's to feed their pockets. Why do you think the Middle East is the way it is?

Peace just ain't profitable. Everything - ISIS, the migrants, etc - it all amounts to cold, hard cash being more important than the reality that bodies grow cold in the morgues.

I'm personally just waiting for the next Breivik to start shooting up some joints somewhere.

But the next Breivik is coming. As is the next ISIS attack if Europe doesn't do something about the migrants.