European Migrant Crisis Megathread

[The Kievan People]

Japan, South Korea.

No, those are countries in Asia. They are not part of western history or western culture.

Rich =/= western.

[Ostroeuropa]

Absolute bollocks. On what basis do you claim this. For one thing, Syrians are arguably caucasian.
For another, you're just repeating the same crap i've JUST explained to you is wrong and why in a transparent attempt to paint opposition to a set of ideas as opposition to a set of genes.

You are arguing in bad faith. What possible good do you think can result from policy being based in disingenuous virtue signalling?

Oh, so you have empirical evidence a culture predisposes someone to this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics

Have fun.

[Sanctissima]

...

Westerners don't rape? Are you fucking kidding me?

I never claimed that, and didn't notice that part of his list.
However, it's fair to say that westerners don't rape to the same extent as non-westerners, in part because of our societal attempts to purge the practice.

Eh, the latter statement isn't entirely true.

Most non-Western countries and societies do discourage rape, just not in the same way. In the West, you're told not to rape because it's wrong. Elsewhere, and particularly in Syria, you're told not to rape because you'll have your genitals chopped off if you're caught.

[Wallenburg]

That's due to how rape is recorded in statistics, what constitutes rape, and encouraging people to report.
As i've previously shown, migrants to sweden commit over half the rapes there.

For one thing, getting raped can get you executed in Iran. You think that's reliable?

You do know that of all things, it's difficult to get accurate rape statistics in the Arab World.
Women aren't allowed to report rape. It's not an official rule, but the unspoken one.
Women don't report rape, because they are bullied if they do.

If we can't rely on statistics, then where are you getting your information that rape is far more prevalent outside of the West?

[Kelinfort]

Oh, so you have empirical evidence a culture predisposes someone to this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics

Have fun.

Ah, so a hunch? Based on a book?

They did this before the Quran. Either it's their race or it's the individual.

[Wallenburg]

People, get this into your heads.
Arab culture =/= European culture.

And American culture =/= European culture. And Chinese culture =/= American culture. And French culture =/= Russian culture. And Indian culture =/= Mongolian culture. So what?

Polar opposites actually.

[citation needed]

[Kelinfort]

Turn white to western and you've got a point.

...

Westerners don't rape? Are you fucking kidding me? Same goes for you, Kelinfort. Last time I checked, plenty of white people do all of those things.

Nonsense!

(Of course. But that would ruin my point.)

[Ostroeuropa]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics

Have fun.

Ah, so a hunch? Based on a book?

They did this before the Quran. Either it's their race or it's the individual.

It can't be the individual, because then we'd see comparable rates.

It could be the race, but there's no evidence to that effect and plenty against it. (More difference within races than between.)

So it has to be the culture. What's your alternative to those options? How do you explain what's going on here, since you refuse to accept that their culture could just be inferior to ours.

What's the point, by the way, of ever trying to improve our culture, if you're so obsessed with cultural relativism.

[Sanctissima]

Ah, so a hunch? Based on a book?

They did this before the Quran. Either it's their race or it's the individual.

It can't be the individual, because then we'd see comparable rates.

It could be the race, but there's no evidence to that effect and plenty against it. (More difference within races than between.)

So it has to be the culture. What's your alternative to those options? How do you explain what's going on here, since you refuse to accept that their culture could just be inferior to ours.

What's the point, by the way, of ever trying to improve our culture, if you're so obsessed with cultural relativism.

It's doesn't quite come down to just the culture. The culture plays a role, but only in part. Society, politics, religion and individuals all play a cumulative role in why rapes occur far more often in the Arab World than in the West.

[Ostroeuropa]

It can't be the individual, because then we'd see comparable rates.

It could be the race, but there's no evidence to that effect and plenty against it. (More difference within races than between.)

So it has to be the culture. What's your alternative to those options? How do you explain what's going on here, since you refuse to accept that their culture could just be inferior to ours.

What's the point, by the way, of ever trying to improve our culture, if you're so obsessed with cultural relativism.

It's doesn't quite come down to just the culture. The culture plays a role, but only in part. Society, politics, religion and individuals all play a cumulative role in why rapes occur far more often in the Arab World than in the West.

Eh, those are all kind of covered by "culture." to an extent.
It does show that one of the reasons we have a problem with migrants in Europe is that their society is ghettoized, and so problematic elements from their culture remain unadultered by western society.

[Wallenburg]

If they refuse to adopt our modern values, we shouldn't allow them in.

You do realize that knocking away the foundations of one's beliefs and substituting them for ones alien to you is a little difficult, right? Even shifting stances on a single question doesn't work like that. If some nation says I have to adopt the belief that a total ban on firearms is good or I can't come in, my stances on gun policy aren't going to magically change. Similarly, telling migrants to reject their culture and adopt one's own simply won't work. You need to educate them and encourage a gradual change in beliefs. Going around saying "everything you think is WRONG!" will only cause tragedy.

[Belhorizon]

That's due to how rape is recorded in statistics, what constitutes rape, and encouraging people to report.
As i've previously shown, migrants to sweden commit over half the rapes there.

For one thing, getting raped can get you executed in Iran. You think that's reliable?

You do know that of all things, it's difficult to get accurate rape statistics in the Arab World.
Women aren't allowed to report rape. It's not an official rule, but the unspoken one.
Women don't report rape, because they are bullied if they do.

If we can't rely on statistics, then where are you getting your information that rape is far more prevalent outside of the West?

People, get this into your heads.
Arab culture =/= European culture.

And American culture =/= European culture. And Chinese culture =/= American culture. And French culture =/= Russian culture. And Indian culture =/= Mongolian culture. So what?

Polar opposites actually.

[citation needed]

[citation needed]?

No, I think you mean.
[expert's opinion needed]
But again, what qualifies an expert on Arab mentality?
I'd say, for starters, someone who has spent a good chunk of his/her life in the Arab world, willing to talk about this topic.
That disqualifies over 95% of what you can find on the English-language internet.

As I said before, Arab culture is built on Islam, with everything that entails.
Is a culture build on Islam remotely similar to European culture? Of course not.
Where's my citation? Why, myself and my knowledge about my region.

I know who I am, and I know what my Arab identity consists of. And I can assure you, it's a whole lot of nothing.
Without Islam, (since I'm Christian), my Arab identity rests on our food and Saints. That's it. Not even language, since even that doesn't extend farther than a 100km radius from where I live.

So when you import a political, religious, and social culture completely built on Islam into a secular society, what do you get?
The disregard for the experiences of individual people without having the title expert attached to it is getting annoying.

I assure you that the fact that I'm experiencing the middle east for three quarters of my life now, (With the other quarter in Canada.), qualifies me better than most people here in discerning the differences in culture. And once again, unless you convince me otherwise with your own citations. (You can cite yourself if you think you're knowledgeable enough.), nothing will convince me on the contrary.


Edit:As for your statistics comment.
You can't.
Lebanon, on that graph, hasn't had a population census in 40 years.
Saudii Arabia punishes women for being raped. So do other Muslim countries. Not to mention the cultural outlook that blames women on Rape. Do you expect the statistics to be accurate?
Again, this isn't the west.
No one in the Arab world gives a rat's ass about statistics.

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

Islam as a whole condemns violence and is not a violent religion.

Islam was literally founded by a warlord, and spread itself almost entirely through war and conquest.

Going on the first point I doubt it since we have literally no historical evidence for said Prophet aside from existing.

We still have more evidence than for Abraham though.

[Belhorizon]

Islam was literally founded by a warlord, and spread itself almost entirely through war and conquest.

Going on the first point I doubt it since we have literally no historical evidence for said Prophet aside from existing.

We still have more evidence than for Abraham though.

Even conceding that point, Islam is still founded by a warlord and spread through war.
Their own books proclaim it. If he existed or not, or if that happened or not, is irrelevant.

[The Kievan People]

Going around saying "everything you think is WRONG!" will only cause tragedy.

No migrant.

No problem!

[Sanctissima]

It's doesn't quite come down to just the culture. The culture plays a role, but only in part. Society, politics, religion and individuals all play a cumulative role in why rapes occur far more often in the Arab World than in the West.

Eh, those are all kind of covered by "culture." to an extent.
It does show that one of the reasons we have a problem with migrants in Europe is that their society is ghettoized, and so problematic elements from their culture remain unadultered by western society.

Eh, the term culture itself isn't quite as overarching as the way you might think, but semantics aside I think it's worth noting that most of the current migrants are in all likelihood not going to become immigrants. When the war's over, there's a pretty good chance that the bulk of them will be going back to Syria, so integration isn't necessarily a major issue.

[Ostroeuropa]

If they refuse to adopt our modern values, we shouldn't allow them in.

You do realize that knocking away the foundations of one's beliefs and substituting them for ones alien to you is a little difficult, right? Even shifting stances on a single question doesn't work like that. If some nation says I have to adopt the belief that a total ban on firearms is good or I can't come in, my stances on gun policy aren't going to magically change. Similarly, telling migrants to reject their culture and adopt one's own simply won't work. You need to educate them and encourage a gradual change in beliefs. Going around saying "everything you think is WRONG!" will only cause tragedy.

*shrug*
Why should we care?

If people want to come here, they should be enthralled with our values or disillusioned with their own. If they aren't, why are they coming?

Because they're too eager for free shit to connect the dots on why our society is rich, peaceful, and successful while theirs is a poor, violent clusterfuck and think turning up and behaving the exact same way they have for centuries isn't going to cause problems?

In before an SJW whines at me about imperialism being the cause of their societies poverty and i'm forced to give them a link to Singapore, South Korea, etc.

[Wallenburg]

If we can't rely on statistics, then where are you getting your information that rape is far more prevalent outside of the West?

And American culture =/= European culture. And Chinese culture =/= American culture. And French culture =/= Russian culture. And Indian culture =/= Mongolian culture. So what?

[citation needed]

[citation needed]?

No, I think you mean.
[expert's opinion needed]

No, I mean [citation needed].

But again, what qualifies an expert on Arab mentality?

I'd say, for starters, someone who has spent a good chunk of his/her life in the Arab world, willing to talk about this topic.
That disqualifies over 95% of what you can find on the English-language internet.

I'd say so as well. That's quite irrelevant though.

As I said before, Arab culture is built on Islam, with everything that entails.
Is a culture build on Islam remotely similar to European culture? Of course not.

Nearly all human culture is built on the same basic values.

Where's my citation? Why, myself and my knowledge about my region.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacie ... ority.html

I know who I am, and I know what my Arab identity consists of. And I can assure you, it's a whole lot of nothing.

If your "Arab identity" amounts to nothing, you have no Arab identity.

Without Islam, (since I'm Christian), my Arab identity rests on our food and Saints. That's it. Not even language, since even that doesn't extend farther than a 100km radius from where I live.

I'm really not sure what you are getting at, especially since Arab culture is far more complex than a conjunction with Islam.

So when you import a political, religious, and social culture completely built on Islam into a secular society, what do you get?

You get a Muslim version of the Republican Party.

The disregard for the experiences of individual people without having the title expert attached to it is getting annoying.

I could really care less about your personal anecdotes.

I assure you that the fact that I'm experiencing the middle east for three quarters of my life now, (With the other quarter in Canada.), qualifies me better than most people here in discerning the differences in culture. And once again, unless you convince me otherwise with your own citations. (You can cite yourself if you think you're knowledgeable enough.),

Um...sure, but you still haven't provided evidence that Arab and European culture are polar opposites.

nothing will convince me on the contrary.

So you plan to just plug your ears and drown out whatever I say if I keep posting? Why even bother coming here if you refuse to listen to an argument?

[The balkens]

Eh, those are all kind of covered by "culture." to an extent.
It does show that one of the reasons we have a problem with migrants in Europe is that their society is ghettoized, and so problematic elements from their culture remain unadultered by western society.

Eh, the term culture itself isn't quite as overarching as the way you might think, but semantics aside I think it's worth noting that most of the current migrants are in all likelihood not going to become immigrants. When the war's over, there's a pretty good chance that the bulk of them will be going back to Syria, so integration isn't necessarily a major issue.

Which is why we need to let Assad stay in power, he may be a dictator, but he might help in getting rid of ISIS as a dangerous force.

[Ostroeuropa]

Eh, those are all kind of covered by "culture." to an extent.
It does show that one of the reasons we have a problem with migrants in Europe is that their society is ghettoized, and so problematic elements from their culture remain unadultered by western society.

Eh, the term culture itself isn't quite as overarching as the way you might think, but semantics aside I think it's worth noting that most of the current migrants are in all likelihood not going to become immigrants. When the war's over, there's a pretty good chance that the bulk of them will be going back to Syria, so integration isn't necessarily a major issue.

That's charmingly trusting.

[Immoren]

Migrant crisis happened already. Too late to do anything about it.
Poor Celts.

[Novus America]

Eh, the term culture itself isn't quite as overarching as the way you might think, but semantics aside I think it's worth noting that most of the current migrants are in all likelihood not going to become immigrants. When the war's over, there's a pretty good chance that the bulk of them will be going back to Syria, so integration isn't necessarily a major issue.

Which is why we need to let Assad stay in power, he may be a dictator, but he might help in getting rid of ISIS as a dangerous force.

His corruption, incompetence and Allawite supremacism helped ISIS rise...

I have posted countless times countless sources proving most Syrians are fleeing Assad, not ISIS.

[The Princes of the Universe]

Migrant crisis happened already. Too late to do anything about it.
Poor Celts.

i c wut u did thar

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

Going on the first point I doubt it since we have literally no historical evidence for said Prophet aside from existing.

We still have more evidence than for Abraham though.

Even conceding that point, Islam is still founded by a warlord and spread through war.
Their own books proclaim it. If he existed or not, or if that happened or not, is irrelevant.

Where do we have evidence they were a warlord?

If it is from what I think you are suggesting it is rather hard to take those verbatim.

Not to mention that same argument can be applied to any legendary figure (x source tells us therefore it must be right).

[The balkens]

Which is why we need to let Assad stay in power, he may be a dictator, but he might help in getting rid of ISIS as a dangerous force.

His corruption, incompetence and Allawite supremacism helped ISIS rise...

and im sure getting rid of him will make ISIS go away.