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European Migrant Crisis Megathread

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Kelinfort
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Posts: 16394
Founded: Nov 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kelinfort » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:55 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Gravlen wrote:*Shrug*

I just showed you that they are. Your feeble denials won't change that.

Heck, even at Äventyrsbadet in Kalmar, where the groping patrol is, the only incident they have on record was a case of sexual molestation of a minor girl by an older Swedish man in the jacuzzi just before the new year.


Tiger attacks sometimes happen in the UK, you realize. Doesn't make them a British problem.

Some populations have this behavior far more in their group. We don't have widespread mutilation of children, honor killings, roaming gangs of rapists, etc as a fairly typical thing in our culture. In theirs, yeh.

What about nig- I mean black people in the US?

Filthy culture.

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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58543
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:56 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:If we allow more in, we need to make it clear they must abandon their culture and adopt ours. We should not have to tolerate their presence otherwise.


In which case I feel I must insist that anyone emigrating to an Islamic-majority culture abandon their culture and beliefs and adopt Islamic values. It's only fair, after all.


Fine by me. It's not like they give you a choice, you realize. Go ahead, go be the first. You apparently don't see much wrong with inviting millions of these people here, so you shouldn't mind going there, right?
I'm sure you'll be able to retain your culture and such, including being trans, over there.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Gravlen
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Gravlen » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:57 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35687257

That's them shouting allahu akhbar as they use a battering ram to forcibly enter the continent.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... sages.html

This is the effect just having 5% of them has had on our culture and our freedoms in the UK.

They are overrepresented in prisons and our benefit system.

If we allow more in, we need to make it clear they must abandon their culture and adopt ours. We should not have to tolerate their presence otherwise.

The Hell? Because of immigration, senior hospital doctors will have twitter meltdowns? :eyebrow:
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Ostroeuropa
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Posts: 58543
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:58 pm

Kelinfort wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Tiger attacks sometimes happen in the UK, you realize. Doesn't make them a British problem.

Some populations have this behavior far more in their group. We don't have widespread mutilation of children, honor killings, roaming gangs of rapists, etc as a fairly typical thing in our culture. In theirs, yeh.

What about nig- I mean black people in the US?

Filthy culture.


We've seen that our governments are actively in denial over muslims committing crimes. If you showed me the US government acting this way and black people STILL ended up disproportionately in prison, unemployed, etc, then i'd say yeh, their culture needs to change too.

By the way.
Black people don't proselytize.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Vassenor
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Posts: 68134
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:59 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
In which case I feel I must insist that anyone emigrating to an Islamic-majority culture abandon their culture and beliefs and adopt Islamic values. It's only fair, after all.


Fine by me. It's not like they give you a choice, you realize. Go ahead, go be the first. You apparently don't see much wrong with inviting millions of these people here, so you shouldn't mind going there, right?
I'm sure you'll be able to retain your culture and such, including being trans, over there.


If it's happening, you shouldn't have any problems proving it's happening.
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Belhorizon
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Founded: Apr 11, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Belhorizon » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:59 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:If we allow more in, we need to make it clear they must abandon their culture and adopt ours. We should not have to tolerate their presence otherwise.


In which case I feel I must insist that anyone emigrating to an Islamic-majority culture abandon their culture and beliefs and adopt Islamic values. It's only fair, after all.


Well, fortunately, many Islamic-majority countries are way ahead of you.
I believe three new countries joined the list of those than ban Christmas celebrations.
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Kelinfort
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Posts: 16394
Founded: Nov 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kelinfort » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:00 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Kelinfort wrote:What about nig- I mean black people in the US?

Filthy culture.


We've seen that our governments are actively in denial over muslims committing crimes. If you showed me the US government acting this way and black people STILL ended up disproportionately in prison, unemployed, etc, then i'd say yeh, their culture needs to change too.

By the way.
Black people don't proselytize.

Bullshit, they do proselytize.

And yet, despite all attempts for them to integrate, they're still ignorant, homophobic, and lazy. Clearly their culture is inferior to the white majority culture. I say we deport them.

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Novus America
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Posts: 38385
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
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Postby Novus America » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:02 pm

Gravlen wrote:
Novus America wrote:
High rate of regonition does not neccesarily mean true refugees. Criteria vary. Under current European criteria all Germans would be refugees, even SS members.

No, they wouldn't. Under the Refugee convention, all Germans would not meet the criterias, and SS members would be excluded.


Yes. But European rules are much loser than the convention requires.
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Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58543
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:04 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Fine by me. It's not like they give you a choice, you realize. Go ahead, go be the first. You apparently don't see much wrong with inviting millions of these people here, so you shouldn't mind going there, right?
I'm sure you'll be able to retain your culture and such, including being trans, over there.


If it's happening, you shouldn't have any problems proving it's happening.


Oh that's great. So you've not only decided to advocate for millions of these people coming here, you know basically nothing about them.

Belhorizon wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
In which case I feel I must insist that anyone emigrating to an Islamic-majority culture abandon their culture and beliefs and adopt Islamic values. It's only fair, after all.


Well, fortunately, many Islamic-majority countries are way ahead of you.
I believe three new countries joined the list of those than ban Christmas celebrations.


Got it in one.

Or how about this:
http://reportergary.com/wp-content/uplo ... 12/a45.jpg

Or this:
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the- ... -overview/

Or this:
http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/wp-content ... ligion.png

Or this:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=women ... +islam+map

You've basically up and decided to open a portal to 1800's america and invite the Klan to come settle. But because you associate Islam with Brown people, you can't seem to realize it.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Vassenor
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Posts: 68134
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:06 pm

You know, it's interesting. We go on and on about how evil and oppressive Islamic countries are, and then start demanding that our governments act the same way.
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Ostroeuropa
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Posts: 58543
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:06 pm

Kelinfort wrote:Bullshit, they do proselytize.

And yet, despite all attempts for them to integrate, they're still ignorant, homophobic, and lazy. Clearly their culture is inferior to the white majority culture. I say we deport them.


How do they proselytize?

Which sort of suggests the current measures are misguided and not working, doesn't it. So why the fuck would we apply these same measures to Muslims and invite loads in?

Yeh yeh got it, whine about racism to virtue signal while you endorse policies bringing about widespread civil unrest, rapes, sexual assaults, etc.
But at least you feel good. The majority culture isn't white, for one thing.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Trumpostan
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Posts: 2942
Founded: Sep 12, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Trumpostan » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:07 pm

Saiwania wrote:In my view, the killer nanny in Moscow shouldn't be eligible for 20 years in prison, this is much too light. I think she is a prime candidate for the death penalty. Russia should not be joining the EU, which it almost made the mistake of doing before Putin came to power. The indefinite suspension of capital punishment should be lifted in Russia.


Russia joining the EU may just destroy it (and the EU as well). For all the economic data I've seen, the EU is a drain on economic growth (compared to the rest of the world). They lag the rest of the world in terms of economic growth. And for countries in the Euro it gets even worse.

Food for thought my friend.
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Ostroeuropa
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Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:08 pm

Vassenor wrote:You know, it's interesting. We go on and on about how evil and oppressive Islamic countries are, and then start demanding that our governments act the same way.


How so?
I'd just ban more from turning up, ban faith schooling, ban circumcision, and be done with it.

Once we've dealt with this batch, we can ease up on restrictions to allow a few in at a time.

The alternative is to keep inviting more and keep fueling the rise of a new far right.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Kelinfort
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Posts: 16394
Founded: Nov 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kelinfort » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:10 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Kelinfort wrote:Bullshit, they do proselytize.

And yet, despite all attempts for them to integrate, they're still ignorant, homophobic, and lazy. Clearly their culture is inferior to the white majority culture. I say we deport them.


How do they proselytize?

Which sort of suggests the current measures are misguided and not working, doesn't it. So why the fuck would we apply these same measures to Muslims and invite loads in?

Yeh yeh got it, whine about racism to virtue signal while you endorse policies bringing about widespread civil unrest, rapes, sexual assaults, etc.
But at least you feel good.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... vmain.html

I'm saying it's their race. White people have never committed atrocities. We see only brown and black people doing this shit.

Oh, yes, you can claim to hold the moral high ground, but deep down, you know it's true.

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Kelinfort
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Posts: 16394
Founded: Nov 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kelinfort » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:14 pm

Aelex wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:It's on the contrary here in Europe, and it's fueling the anti-Islamic sentiment quite a bunch.

Yep. Strangely, muzzling people from speaking their mind at risk of being called "racist" or "islamophobic" just end up building resentment and making them more prone to radicalize themselves.
Why do you think Trump get so many vote? Why do you think the F.N in France managed to make 28.8% to the "Régionnales"?
If the far right is rising, it's because people are tired of both the establishment's actions (or rather it's lack of) and the culture of Politically Correct which is poisoning our society.

Why not vote for them?

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Ostroeuropa
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Posts: 58543
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:14 pm

Kelinfort wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
How do they proselytize?

Which sort of suggests the current measures are misguided and not working, doesn't it. So why the fuck would we apply these same measures to Muslims and invite loads in?

Yeh yeh got it, whine about racism to virtue signal while you endorse policies bringing about widespread civil unrest, rapes, sexual assaults, etc.
But at least you feel good.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... vmain.html

I'm saying it's their race. White people have never committed atrocities. We see only brown and black people doing this shit.

Oh, yes, you can claim to hold the moral high ground, but deep down, you know it's true.


As i've said before, if you want to ban fundamentalist strains of christianity from migrating too i'd be all for it.

On what basis do you claim it's their race? Which biological factor do you say causes this mechanism?
Or are you being deliberately disingenuous and pretending that culture is the same thing as race and conflating the two because you don't have an actual fucking argument against their culture being bad.

By all means, show me a mechanism by which their race is the factor. I can show you precisely which memes are causing them to behave this way.

https://www.kalamullah.com/img/server.gif

Can you show me the genes? No?

Well then, there goes your argument. Or rather, your attempt to cast criticism of regressive cultures as racist in lieu of an argument.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Gravlen
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Posts: 17261
Founded: Jul 01, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Gravlen » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:14 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Gravlen wrote:*Shrug*

I just showed you that they are. Your feeble denials won't change that.

Heck, even at Äventyrsbadet in Kalmar, where the groping patrol is, the only incident they have on record was a case of sexual molestation of a minor girl by an older Swedish man in the jacuzzi just before the new year.


Tiger attacks sometimes happen in the UK, you realize. Doesn't make them a British problem.

Some populations have this behavior far more in their group. We don't have widespread mutilation of children, honor killings, roaming gangs of rapists, etc as a fairly typical thing in our culture. In theirs, yeh.

So basically, you're saying that it's a problem that men from other countries immigrate?

Because that is the common denominator, you realize, right?

Who gropes in swimming pools? Men, disproportionally. Europeans and non-europeans.
Who is behind gang rapes? Men, disproportionally. Europeans and non-Europeans.
Who carries out honor killings? Men, disproportionally. Non-Europeans disproportionally.

Thankfully, such an analysis is too superficial to take seriously.
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

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Belhorizon
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Posts: 1536
Founded: Apr 11, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Belhorizon » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:15 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
If it's happening, you shouldn't have any problems proving it's happening.


Oh that's great. So you've not only decided to advocate for millions of these people coming here, you know basically nothing about them.

Belhorizon wrote:
Well, fortunately, many Islamic-majority countries are way ahead of you.
I believe three new countries joined the list of those than ban Christmas celebrations.


Got it in one.

Or how about this:
http://reportergary.com/wp-content/uplo ... 12/a45.jpg

Or this:
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the- ... -overview/

Or this:
http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/wp-content ... ligion.png

Or this:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=women ... +islam+map

You've basically up and decided to open a portal to 1800's america and invite the Klan to come settle. But because you associate Islam with Brown people, you can't seem to realize it.


Oh, my dorms are near the Hobeich Police station; benevolently manned by a Sunni police garrison.
Gay people are brought here.
You do not want to know what they do to them. But before throwing them in jail, eggs are involved.
And no, I'm not joking.
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Kelinfort
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16394
Founded: Nov 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kelinfort » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:16 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Kelinfort wrote:http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... vmain.html

I'm saying it's their race. White people have never committed atrocities. We see only brown and black people doing this shit.

Oh, yes, you can claim to hold the moral high ground, but deep down, you know it's true.


As i've said before, if you want to ban fundamentalist strains of christianity from migrating too i'd be all for it.

On what basis do you claim it's their race? Which biological factor do you say causes this mechanism?
Or are you being deliberately disingenuous and pretending that culture is the same thing as race and conflating the two because you don't have an actual fucking argument against their culture being bad.

By all means, show me a mechanism by which their race is the factor. I can show you precisely which memes are causing them to behave this way.

https://www.kalamullah.com/img/server.gif

Can you show me the genes? No?

Well then, there goes your argument. Or rather, your attempt to cast criticism of regressive cultures as racist in lieu of an argument.

Under what circumstances do their cultures originate?

Something about them is off. Europeans have a unified culture that opposes this. Arabs, Asians, Indians, Africans...they don't. Feel free to prove me wrong.

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Ghatawerpya
Envoy
 
Posts: 304
Founded: Feb 02, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Ghatawerpya » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:18 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Vassenor wrote:You know, it's interesting. We go on and on about how evil and oppressive Islamic countries are, and then start demanding that our governments act the same way.


How so?
I'd just ban more from turning up, ban faith schooling, ban circumcision, and be done with it.

Once we've dealt with this batch, we can ease up on restrictions to allow a few in at a time.

The alternative is to keep inviting more and keep fueling the rise of a new far right.


Yes because banning circumcision is the golden bullet of integration.

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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58543
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:18 pm

Kelinfort wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
As i've said before, if you want to ban fundamentalist strains of christianity from migrating too i'd be all for it.

On what basis do you claim it's their race? Which biological factor do you say causes this mechanism?
Or are you being deliberately disingenuous and pretending that culture is the same thing as race and conflating the two because you don't have an actual fucking argument against their culture being bad.

By all means, show me a mechanism by which their race is the factor. I can show you precisely which memes are causing them to behave this way.

https://www.kalamullah.com/img/server.gif

Can you show me the genes? No?

Well then, there goes your argument. Or rather, your attempt to cast criticism of regressive cultures as racist in lieu of an argument.

Under what circumstances do their cultures originate?

Something about them is off. Europeans have a unified culture that opposes this. Arabs, Asians, Indians, Africans...they don't. Feel free to prove me wrong.


What are you saying here? I don't understand you.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Aelex
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11398
Founded: Jun 05, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Aelex » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:19 pm

Kelinfort wrote:Why not vote for them?

Because last time we did it in France, we verged a coup d'état.
Extremes are never the answer to a solution no matter what the problem is.
If the moderates want to avoid the radicals from taking over, they need to address the issues and address them quickly.
Citoyen Français. Bonapartiste Républicain (aka De Gaule's Gaullisme) with Keynesian leanings on economics. Latin Christian.

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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58543
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:19 pm

Ghatawerpya wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
How so?
I'd just ban more from turning up, ban faith schooling, ban circumcision, and be done with it.

Once we've dealt with this batch, we can ease up on restrictions to allow a few in at a time.

The alternative is to keep inviting more and keep fueling the rise of a new far right.


Yes because banning circumcision is the golden bullet of integration.


Sure is. If they want to carry on mutilating their kids they have to leave the country.
If they want to stay, they have to demonstrate a willingness to abandon elements of their culture.
Yes, yes it is a golden bullet.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

User avatar
Kelinfort
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16394
Founded: Nov 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kelinfort » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:20 pm

Aelex wrote:
Kelinfort wrote:Why not vote for them?

Because last time we did it in France, we verged a coup d'état.
Extremes are never the answer to a solution no matter what the problem is.
If the moderates want to avoid the radicals from taking over, they need to address the issues and address them quickly.

What are you referring to? 1968?

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The Kievan People
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11387
Founded: Jul 02, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby The Kievan People » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:20 pm

Vassenor wrote:In which case I feel I must insist that anyone emigrating to an Islamic-majority culture abandon their culture and beliefs and adopt Islamic values. It's only fair, after all.


Seems reasonable.
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