The NS Mens Rights Thread

[Chestaan]

Because with such things as unfair child custody, the growing gender gap in college enrollment, female rapists getting little to no jail time, and among other things, there needs to be a discussion of men's issues.

What rights do men not have that you believe cause this? What missing rights would fix these issues for you?

The right to full equality before the law, regardless of gender would help. The justice system should be forced to ignore gender in custody cases, in the case of rape etc. This should prevent women getting lower sentences than men for the same crimes, the fact that women are favoured in child custody cases etc.

[Ostroeuropa]

Yeh probably. I've burned out a bit. It's difficult to put up with and talk to so many utter cunts without becoming a bit of one yourself.
That someone who spends their time around the feminist movement ends up an asshole should probably give people in that movement cause for a bit of self-reflection, but it won't.
I'm aware i'm basically an Anti-SJW. The debating and shit isn't really me trying to help or anything, I volunteer for that, so I don't worry too much about it.


I have gazed into the abyss.

And it gazed back at you! Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Spooky!

Sorry, could not resist. But yeah ive done it myself and racked up a warning because of it on here not too recently, in short i think we both just have to come to grips on anger and know when to step back and be collective.

I suppose so.
Why do your friends not identify as feminist too, by the way? Are their reasons similar to mine?

[Ostroeuropa]

What rights do men not have that you believe cause this? What missing rights would fix these issues for you?

The right to full equality before the law, regardless of gender would help. The justice system should be forced to ignore gender in custody cases, in the case of rape etc. This should prevent women getting lower sentences than men for the same crimes, the fact that women are favoured in child custody cases etc.

What about this instead?

Early release policy based on demographics: You take the data from all the women in jail for a crime, the data from all the men in jail for that crime, smush them together, and when it turns out that men get say, 40% more prison time for that crime, you parole the men when they've completed 60% of their sentence (Dodgy math probably.). Notably, such a policy is absolutely silent on whether this problem is the result of discrimination against men (It is.) Or women, it merely addresses the issue. It's crude and such, but it's better than nothing. You can repeat it for black people and such, or any demographic if there is evidence of discrimination in the system. This also means that if people want criminals to serve more time, they have to actually mean that instead of using it as a cover to target a demographic. This also handily does away with individual judges having too much sway over a persons fate, and gives way to the wisdom of crowds effect. Notably, it does not impact a sentence when a judge decides to be lenient, only if they decide to be harsh. Further, it only mitigates the harshness proportionally.
So if a woman gets 1 year and a man gets 20 years, but the average for men is 10 years, he will serve 2 years. That judge may have been 1 year too harsh, or it may be the individual circumstances of the crime and such, but it still eliminates a chunk of the sentence to achieve the 10% amount. This policy would not mean that such a man would serve 1 year. It only effects proportionally, and with both demographics counted. It allows some leeway for more harsh sentencing based on individual circumstances of the crime, while eliminating the possibility for broad, systemic discrimination, since if the "Individual circumstances" excuse is used too often, it will skew the data and prompt sentence reductions. (Discrimination may still occur in individual cases and not be rectified entirely by the system.)
This to me, seems to be a sufficient system to address justice system discrimination with regards to sentencing. If this were implemented, THEN we could have a discussion on whether or not sentences should be as low as womens, or as high as mens, or in between. This system merely ensures equality.

[The Huskar Social Union]

And it gazed back at you! Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Spooky!

Sorry, could not resist. But yeah ive done it myself and racked up a warning because of it on here not too recently, in short i think we both just have to come to grips on anger and know when to step back and be collective.

I suppose so.
Why do your friends not identify as feminist too, by the way? Are their reasons similar to mine?

Some are straight up annoyed by it, which would be Paul and think people can be a tad excessive about it, but can see some of the points for it, Kevin... i cant actually remember, its been months since i last talked to him in Uni about it, which is where we mainly interact, ill have to go over it with him at some point, but probably some what similar to you yeah.

Then i have other friends like Sarah who is a feminist but is largely similar to me on mens issues as well from when we have talked about though not alot, we tend to avoid politics and ideology in general in Uni when we are talking because most of the time im the only one who is genuinely interested in it or it just gets really heated some times.

Which is odd for Art students as the general picture is we all throw paint on a wall for a few seconds then go "Hmm yes quite, the metaphorical basis of the tomato is clearly shown to me here", put on scarf's and sit around talking about politics all day whilst eating fancy Italian biscuits.

[Chestaan]

The right to full equality before the law, regardless of gender would help. The justice system should be forced to ignore gender in custody cases, in the case of rape etc. This should prevent women getting lower sentences than men for the same crimes, the fact that women are favoured in child custody cases etc.

What about this instead?

Early release policy based on demographics: You take the data from all the women in jail for a crime, the data from all the men in jail for that crime, smush them together, and when it turns out that men get say, 40% more prison time for that crime, you parole the men when they've completed 60% of their sentence (Dodgy math probably.). Notably, such a policy is absolutely silent on whether this problem is the result of discrimination against men (It is.) Or women, it merely addresses the issue. It's crude and such, but it's better than nothing. You can repeat it for black people and such, or any demographic if there is evidence of discrimination in the system. This also means that if people want criminals to serve more time, they have to actually mean that instead of using it as a cover to target a demographic. This also handily does away with individual judges having too much sway over a persons fate, and gives way to the wisdom of crowds effect. Notably, it does not impact a sentence when a judge decides to be lenient, only if they decide to be harsh. Further, it only mitigates the harshness proportionally.
So if a woman gets 1 year and a man gets 20 years, but the average for men is 10 years, he will serve 2 years. That judge may have been 1 year too harsh, or it may be the individual circumstances of the crime and such, but it still eliminates a chunk of the sentence to achieve the 10% amount. This policy would not mean that such a man would serve 1 year. It only effects proportionally, and with both demographics counted. It allows some leeway for more harsh sentencing based on individual circumstances of the crime, while eliminating the possibility for broad, systemic discrimination, since if the "Individual circumstances" excuse is used too often, it will skew the data and prompt sentence reductions. (Discrimination may still occur in individual cases and not be rectified entirely by the system.)
This to me, seems to be a sufficient system to address justice system discrimination with regards to sentencing. If this were implemented, THEN we could have a discussion on whether or not sentences should be as low as womens, or as high as mens, or in between. This system merely ensures equality.

One problem comes to mind immediately, and that is that judges generally have a lot of leeway in how long the sentence that get applied will be. If the disparity in sentence lengths is due to those who decide the sentence, i.e the judge, which it must be as I can't imagine that legislation demands that men get given higher sentences than women, then wouldn't judges simply make sure that when they do sentence a man, that they give them extra time in prison as they know that they will get out after 60% of the imposed sentence.

For example, prior to the change you put forward a judge sentences the man to ten years in prison and the man will serve ten years. After the change the judge may sentence him to 16.666666666 years in prison, to ensure that he serves the same ten years.

[MisandristMantis]

Another incident of domestic violence went viral today, thanks to the MRM. the one where she sets his crotch on fire while he slept.
No news source that i've seen calls it DV. The same problem often turns up for women raping men.

The mens rights movement should probably research it's sources a bit better before pilling on a hoax video in a desperate attempt to show that abuse against men is normal.

The reason no one is calling it domestic violence is simple: It was staged. It was a marketing stunt. http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/penis ... -cheating/

what would you say causes this kind of thing to be brushed under the rug? Male ego or gynocentrism? Granted you could say they're both related, but I think the male ego can be largely independent of female wants and needs in such cases.

I'd say this one was male ego for sure. He staged a video of someone lighting his penis on fire because he believed the internet would be so upset about it that he'd get lots of traffic. The mens rights movement assured he was right. https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/com ... and_films/

Youtube removed his initial video due to violation of the terms of use.

I suppose making this marketing stunt go viral proves that men are oppressed?

[New Grestin]

Forgive me if I sound like a broken record, but anyone else notice a running theme here?

A decent number of posts are: "Why do we need a Men's Rights Movement" or "What's the point of a Men's Rights Movement" or outright dismissal of the entire idea.

It would be almost comical if it wasn't so distressing how willing people are to just dismiss the idea right off the bat.

[Ostroeuropa]

What about this instead?

One problem comes to mind immediately, and that is that judges generally have a lot of leeway in how long the sentence that get applied will be. If the disparity in sentence lengths is due to those who decide the sentence, i.e the judge, which it must be as I can't imagine that legislation demands that men get given higher sentences than women, then wouldn't judges simply make sure that when they do sentence a man, that they give them extra time in prison as they know that they will get out after 60% of the imposed sentence.

For example, prior to the change you put forward a judge sentences the man to ten years in prison and the man will serve ten years. After the change the judge may sentence him to 16.666666666 years in prison, to ensure that he serves the same ten years.

But then, if enough judges do that, then the new statistics would be:

Men serve 16.66666 years for every 4 women serve.
And so the sentence would be reduced even further.

You update it every now and then.

So like, if the numbers were:
Men on average serve 10 years for every 1 women serve. Therefore, men will now serve 10% of their sentence.#

If judges decided to then compensate for that and sentence men longer:
Men on average serve 20 years for every 1 women serve. Therefore, men will now serve 5% of their sentence.

[Ostroeuropa]

Another incident of domestic violence went viral today, thanks to the MRM. the one where she sets his crotch on fire while he slept.
No news source that i've seen calls it DV. The same problem often turns up for women raping men.

The mens rights movement should probably research it's sources a bit better before pilling on a hoax video in a desperate attempt to show that abuse against men is normal.

The reason no one is calling it domestic violence is simple: It was staged. It was a marketing stunt. http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/penis ... -cheating/

what would you say causes this kind of thing to be brushed under the rug? Male ego or gynocentrism? Granted you could say they're both related, but I think the male ego can be largely independent of female wants and needs in such cases.

I'd say this one was male ego for sure. He staged a video of someone lighting his penis on fire because he believed the internet would be so upset about it that he'd get lots of traffic. The mens rights movement assured he was right. https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/com ... and_films/

Youtube removed his initial video due to violation of the terms of use.

I suppose making this marketing stunt go viral proves that men are oppressed?

The feminist movement is no better for jumping at stunts, frauds, and such. It's a problem common to political movements in general.

[Gravlen]

I'm confused as to what rights women have that men don't.

Women have the right to government-enforced gender quotas (Norway, Europe)

Why do you point out that women have that right, when men also do? (Norway)

Norwegian legislation secures gender balance in boards in public limited companies. The requirement of the gender representation law is that both sexes shall be represented on company boards by 40 per cent.

[Gauthier]

Yeh probably. I've burned out a bit. It's difficult to put up with and talk to so many utter cunts without becoming a bit of one yourself.
That someone who spends their time around the feminist movement ends up an asshole should probably give people in that movement cause for a bit of self-reflection, but it won't.
I'm aware i'm basically an Anti-SJW. The debating and shit isn't really me trying to help or anything, I volunteer for that, so I don't worry too much about it.


I have gazed into the abyss.

And it gazed back at you! Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Spooky!

Sorry, could not resist. But yeah ive done it myself and racked up a warning because of it on here not too recently, in short i think we both just have to come to grips on anger and know when to step back and be collective.

The "abyss" is that thing between women's legs.

[Haktiva]

And it gazed back at you! Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Spooky!

Sorry, could not resist. But yeah ive done it myself and racked up a warning because of it on here not too recently, in short i think we both just have to come to grips on anger and know when to step back and be collective.

The "abyss" is that thing between women's legs.

I thought that was gum on the sidewalk

[Tahar Joblis]

Another incident of domestic violence went viral today, thanks to the MRM. the one where she sets his crotch on fire while he slept.
No news source that i've seen calls it DV. The same problem often turns up for women raping men.

The mens rights movement should probably research it's sources a bit better before pilling on a hoax video in a desperate attempt to show that abuse against men is normal.

The reason no one is calling it domestic violence is simple: It was staged. It was a marketing stunt. http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/penis ... -cheating/

But the penis-on-fire video is unsettling. After all, retaliatory abuse like this happens in real life. For instance, in 2009, an Australian woman named Rajini Narayan was charged with murder after dousing her husband's pelvis with solvent and setting him on fire while he slept. He died from the injuries, and the house nearly burned down. "I just wanted to burn his penis so it belongs to me and no one else, Narayan told prosecutors, "I didn't mean this to happen."

That points to an article that doesn't mention the phrase "domestic violence," "domestic abuse," "IPV," etc.

None of the coverage, in fact, seems to identify this as a form of intimate partner violence. Murdering your spouse would be readily classified as such if you murdered your wife, but apparently husbands don't count.

Incidentally, she got off the hook for burning her partner to death. In spite of the fact that she was very clearly motivated by jealousy, women's groups defended her.

This, incidentally, shows exactly what reaction a feminist group will have to a case such as the video would have been, were it genuine: Seeking to find reasons to excuse the act and shield the perpetrator from any legal consequences.

[Ostroeuropa]

I dunno if i'm being really stupid...

But do you guys think that Prison Rape might decline if prisoners were forced into competitive sports contests and such? It'd be worth a trial run at least.

(By rationale is that prison rape is a dominance thing. That might be partially mitigated through sports.)
Or at least, the general concept of it. Provide prisoners other, more constructive ways to assert dominance over eachother. If you can ritualize it, it'll be more effective. Like, the team that wins sits in elevated tables in the lunch hall and such, or whatever. By providing legitimized means for opportunities to declare dominance and display dominance, we could reduce violence in general in prisons maybe.

That won't deal with the guards engaging in it though. Dunno.
(Yeh, i'm high.)

Obviously one thing we should do immediately is segregate prisons between violent and non-violent offenders. Non-violent ones should only be sent to prison as a last resort anyway.

[The Princes of the Universe]

I dunno if i'm being really stupid...
But do you guys think that Prison Rape might decline if prisoners were forced into competitive sports contests and such? It'd be worth a trial run at least.
(By rationale is that prison rape is a dominance thing. That might be partially mitigated through sports.)
Or at least, the general concept of it. Provide prisoners other, more constructive ways to assert dominance over eachother. If you can ritualize it, it'll be more effective. Like, the team that wins sits in elevated tables in the lunch hall and such, or whatever. By providing legitimized means for opportunities to declare dominance and display dominance, we could reduce violence in general in prisons maybe.
That won't deal with the guards engaging in it though. Dunno.
(Yeh, i'm high.)

Not sure if it would work, but a shot in the dark is better than the status quo.

[Fartsniffage]

So Emmerdale is doing a female on male domestic violence storyline....

[The Princes of the Universe]

So Emmerdale is doing a female on male domestic violence storyline....

Are they playing it serious or making a mockery of the very idea?

[The Alexanderians]

I dunno if i'm being really stupid...
But do you guys think that Prison Rape might decline if prisoners were forced into competitive sports contests and such? It'd be worth a trial run at least.
(By rationale is that prison rape is a dominance thing. That might be partially mitigated through sports.)
Or at least, the general concept of it. Provide prisoners other, more constructive ways to assert dominance over eachother. If you can ritualize it, it'll be more effective. Like, the team that wins sits in elevated tables in the lunch hall and such, or whatever. By providing legitimized means for opportunities to declare dominance and display dominance, we could reduce violence in general in prisons maybe.
That won't deal with the guards engaging in it though. Dunno.
(Yeh, i'm high.)

Not sure if it would work, but a shot in the dark is better than the status quo.

There is also the possibility that by doing so we might bring down prison rapes but it may lead to other issues. Dominance isn't very easy to get rid of or control. Imagine if fights broke out even more often because of the amount of sports going on. It happens in any minor or major league who's to say it won;t happen here?

[Ostroeuropa]

So Emmerdale is doing a female on male domestic violence storyline....

Really? You seen it? I'll have to view a summary at some point to see if it's any good.

[The Princes of the Universe]

Not sure if it would work, but a shot in the dark is better than the status quo.

There is also the possibility that by doing so we might bring down prison rapes but it may lead to other issues. Dominance isn't very easy to get rid of or control. Imagine if fights broke out even more often because of the amount of sports going on. It happens in any minor or major league who's to say it won;t happen here?

Surely a fight is less bad than rape if it does indeed wind up working out that way?

[The Alexanderians]

There is also the possibility that by doing so we might bring down prison rapes but it may lead to other issues. Dominance isn't very easy to get rid of or control. Imagine if fights broke out even more often because of the amount of sports going on. It happens in any minor or major league who's to say it won;t happen here?

Surely a fight is less bad than rape if it does indeed wind up working out that way?

Sorry if it came across as directly comparing those two. I was saying that by possibly solving one issue you may create another.

[Fartsniffage]

So Emmerdale is doing a female on male domestic violence storyline....

Really? You seen it? I'll have to view a summary at some point to see if it's any good.

Watch tonights episode on catch up. It's been building for a while but tonight was kinda the head. Sam and Rebecca (i think that's her name). Kid being taken out of the home by the guy and everything.

[The Alexanderians]

Really? You seen it? I'll have to view a summary at some point to see if it's any good.

Watch tonights episode on catch up. It's been building for a while but tonight was kinda the head. Sam and Rebecca (i think that's her name). Kid being taken out of the home by the guy and everything.

What show is this?

[Ostroeuropa]

Surely a fight is less bad than rape if it does indeed wind up working out that way?

Sorry if it came across as directly comparing those two. I was saying that by possibly solving one issue you may create another.

That's true. But fights are easier to handle, I think. By their nature they're pretty public too.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I dunno if i'm being really stupid...

But do you guys think that Prison Rape might decline if prisoners were forced into competitive sports contests and such? It'd be worth a trial run at least.

(By rationale is that prison rape is a dominance thing. That might be partially mitigated through sports.)
Or at least, the general concept of it. Provide prisoners other, more constructive ways to assert dominance over eachother. If you can ritualize it, it'll be more effective. Like, the team that wins sits in elevated tables in the lunch hall and such, or whatever. By providing legitimized means for opportunities to declare dominance and display dominance, we could reduce violence in general in prisons maybe.

That won't deal with the guards engaging in it though. Dunno.
(Yeh, i'm high.)

Obviously one thing we should do immediately is segregate prisons between violent and non-violent offenders. Non-violent ones should only be sent to prison as a last resort anyway.

I really don't see how that would work, people will still want sex. I mean, I've been in lockup and that was constantly on my mind

Not enough to rape someone else, but still.