The NS Mens Rights Thread

[Kincoboh]

Orrrr maybe it's not a male problem, but some other underlying issue? A lot of these issues you mention seem to be very U.S. focused as well. But maybe, if we're talking about prison, schools, the media, it's the overarching societal system itself? Capitalism? The state of democracy? Hierarchy in general? Maybe male feminists see the issues that men face, and recognize that perhaps people in power are causing it?

that doesn't answer why it happens disproportionately more to Men.

So, it's feminism's fault, you're saying?

[Ostroeuropa]

I think it's a little ironic that most of the perceived sexism you are concerned about is actually perpetuated by other men. Essentially you are trying to persuade the men in power that men don't have social power or at least not equal power.

Indeed! Maybe the actual problem is a disparity in power? Perhaps we should look at anarchism for an answer to gender issues. What say you about anarchism, MRAs?

We don't have a policy on anarchism. Individual MRAs might.

Why are you assuming that women would treat men any better if they had power? That seems kind of like you're assuming men are sexist by default. You're kind of outing yourself as a bigot here.

The perpetrators gender isn't relevant. What is relevant is the victims gender. Because it demonstrates sexism against their gender.
Women also perpetuate this.

Men occupy the bottom of society as well as the top, with women in the middle.

Feminism is right wing as fuck.

It looks at men, where the lower stata die in the streets, are homeless, victims of loads of violence, etc. But their top guys? They are really, really fucking wealthy.

Then it looks at women, who have a safety net preventing them from falling as low as men most of the time, but their top people can't get quite as far. (Because they aren't indoctrinated into being workaholics.)

And then it says "That first one. That's what freedumbs looks like. We want it."

[BK117B2]

Why be a feminist when a person could advocate for men's right instead?

Either way, they seem kind of silly. Why not be a libertarian and advocate the rights of all?

"All lives matter"?

Just so

[Dyrrachium]

that doesn't answer why it happens disproportionately more to Men.

So, it's feminism's fault, you're saying?

Nope. I don't know why, I'm not an MRA, I just check this thread.

[Ostroeuropa]

that doesn't answer why it happens disproportionately more to Men.

So, it's feminism's fault, you're saying?

Partially yes. Feminism has contributed to the erasure of mens issues and the denial of their victimization, in order to maintain their idiotic "women need to be raised up" narrative.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Why should a man be an MRA when they can be a feminist instead?

Why be a feminist when a person could advocate for men's right instead?

Either way, they seem kind of silly. Why not be a libertarian and advocate the rights of all?

I dont like this whole mutually exclusive mentality some people have, you can be both, i am as are alot of people i know. Tis really silly when some people act like you can only be one or the other.

[Cannabis Islands]

That's part of it yes. But it's also about getting people to recognize that our rights are being violated, as well as demanding equal rights with women. (Specifically on bodily autonomy, parental planning, etc.)

There's also dealing with institutional sexism against men.
It also deals with women displaying sexism against men. (And men displaying sexism against men.)

I think it's a little ironic that most of the perceived sexism you are concerned about is actually perpetuated by other men. Essentially you are trying to persuade the men in power that men don't have social power or at least not equal power.

So, it is men's fault when a women rapes a boy?

[Ostroeuropa]

Why be a feminist when a person could advocate for men's right instead?

Either way, they seem kind of silly. Why not be a libertarian and advocate the rights of all?

I dont like this whole mutually exclusive mentality some people have, you can be both, i am as are alot of people i know. Tis really silly when some people act like you can only be one or the other.

I'm fine with people calling themselves feminist MRAs, or MRA/WRA, or MRA feminist, or whatever.
I don't think you should ever identify as just a feminist though.

[Dyrrachium]

I dont like this whole mutually exclusive mentality some people have, you can be both, i am as are alot of people i know. Tis really silly when some people act like you can only be one or the other.

I'm fine with people calling themselves feminist MRAs, or MRA/WRA, or MRA feminist, or whatever.
I don't think you should ever identify as just a feminist though.

do you identify as just an mra?

[The Huskar Social Union]

I dont like this whole mutually exclusive mentality some people have, you can be both, i am as are alot of people i know. Tis really silly when some people act like you can only be one or the other.

I'm fine with people calling themselves feminist MRAs, or MRA/WRA, or MRA feminist, or whatever.
I don't think you should ever identify as just a feminist though.

I identify as both openly or just use the term Egalitarian because that is what i am basically. And i dont see anything wrong with people identifying themselves solely as an MRA or a Feminist, its their prerogative.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm fine with people calling themselves feminist MRAs, or MRA/WRA, or MRA feminist, or whatever.
I don't think you should ever identify as just a feminist though.

do you identify as just an mra?

I'm not really sure.
If people ask me what I am, i'd be explicit. I used to call myself a gender abolitionist. I suppose gender egalitarian would be appropriate now.
If you ask if i'm an MRA, i'll say yes. But ask me what I am in terms of gender equality, and I think i'd settle for gender egalitarian, or WRA/MRA.
I can't stomach the idea of calling myself a feminist.

I'm fine with people calling themselves feminist MRAs, or MRA/WRA, or MRA feminist, or whatever.
I don't think you should ever identify as just a feminist though.

I identify as both openly or just use the term Egalitarian because that is what i am basically. And i dont see anything wrong with people identifying themselves solely as an MRA or a Feminist, its their prerogative.

I think it causes problems when trying to advocate for people. If you're trying to ask men about their experiences with sexism, and you introduce yourself as a feminist, you've just thrown a huge fucking spanner in the works.
You are not going to get honest answers, because they are going to tell you what they think you want to hear, because way too many feminists are abusive and stuff to men who don't parrot their ideology back.

[MisandristMantis]

I think it's a little ironic that most of the perceived sexism you are concerned about is actually perpetuated by other men. Essentially you are trying to persuade the men in power that men don't have social power or at least not equal power.

So, it is men's fault when a women rapes a boy?

No but it's primarily male judges, male prosecutors, male police officers, and male lawmakers who determine how crimes are dealt with.

Women make up a small fraction of those professions. So it seems to me you are really upset about how you believe that some men are treating other men unfairly?

[Ostroeuropa]

So, it is men's fault when a women rapes a boy?

No but it's primarily male judges, male prosecutors, male police officers, and male lawmakers who determine how crimes are dealt with.

Women make up a small fraction of those professions. So it seems to me you are really upset about how you believe that some men are treating other men unfairly?

Do you have any evidence at all that women in those professions don't also contribute to this problem?
It's not that men are doing it. It's that anyones doing it.
There is sexism against men. It needs to stop, whether it comes from men or from women. I think you're probably in denial of how much of mens sexism against men is a direct result of womens sexism against men.
(By the way, i'd say the opposite is true too.)

Also, how do you explain men falling behind in schools and such?
Teaching in schools is a majority female profession. That somewhat fucks up your narrative.

[Dyrrachium]

do you identify as just an mra?

I'm not really sure.
If people ask me what I am, i'd be explicit. I used to call myself a gender abolitionist. I suppose gender egalitarian would be appropriate now.
If you ask if i'm an MRA, i'll say yes. But ask me what I am in terms of gender equality, and I think i'd settle for gender egalitarian, or WRA/MRA.
I can't stomach the idea of calling myself a feminist.


[

Is the reason you find it hard to call yourself a feminist the obvious gynocentricism in the name as well as the shady shit that happens under the name of feminism?

[The Huskar Social Union]

do you identify as just an mra?

I'm not really sure.
If people ask me what I am, i'd be explicit. I used to call myself a gender abolitionist. I suppose gender egalitarian would be appropriate now.
If you ask if i'm an MRA, i'll say yes. But ask me what I am in terms of gender equality, and I think i'd settle for gender egalitarian, or WRA/MRA.
I can't stomach the idea of calling myself a feminist.

I identify as both openly or just use the term Egalitarian because that is what i am basically. And i dont see anything wrong with people identifying themselves solely as an MRA or a Feminist, its their prerogative.

I think it causes problems when trying to advocate for people. If you're trying to ask mene about their experiences with sexism, and you introduce yourself as a feminist, you've just thrown a huge fucking spanner in the works.
You are not going to get honest answers, because they are going to tell you what they think you want to hear, because way too many feminists are abusive and stuff to men who don't parrot their ideology back.

Except that has not happened to me as two of my friends in Uni are MRA's and i talk to them all the time about gender based issues and sexism, and as they do not identify as it themselves they ask me to take the feminist perspective in them and i gladly do it.

So from my experience with them and others ive not done anything to jeopardize a conversation or experiences on other issues by taking one position, im open to what they have to say and always have been.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm not really sure.
If people ask me what I am, i'd be explicit. I used to call myself a gender abolitionist. I suppose gender egalitarian would be appropriate now.
If you ask if i'm an MRA, i'll say yes. But ask me what I am in terms of gender equality, and I think i'd settle for gender egalitarian, or WRA/MRA.
I can't stomach the idea of calling myself a feminist.


[

Is the reason you find it hard to call yourself a feminist the obvious gynocentricism in the name as well as the shady shit that happens under the name of feminism?

It's the shady shit. And frankly, personal bias. The duluth model is a major sticking point for me.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm not really sure.
If people ask me what I am, i'd be explicit. I used to call myself a gender abolitionist. I suppose gender egalitarian would be appropriate now.
If you ask if i'm an MRA, i'll say yes. But ask me what I am in terms of gender equality, and I think i'd settle for gender egalitarian, or WRA/MRA.
I can't stomach the idea of calling myself a feminist.




I think it causes problems when trying to advocate for people. If you're trying to ask mene about their experiences with sexism, and you introduce yourself as a feminist, you've just thrown a huge fucking spanner in the works.
You are not going to get honest answers, because they are going to tell you what they think you want to hear, because way too many feminists are abusive and stuff to men who don't parrot their ideology back.

Except that has not happened to me as two of my friends in Uni are MRA's and i talk to them all the time about gender based issues and sexism, and as they do not identify as it themselves they ask me to take the feminist perspective in them and i gladly do it.

So from my experience with them and others ive not done anything to jeopardize a conversation or experiences on other issues by taking one position, im open to what they have to say and always have been.

I'm glad that's worked out for you, but i'll point out that those were your friends. I'm also assuming you're a guy, right? You don't quite have the same social authority as a feminist woman, in terms of how much hell you can raise to destroy or greatly damage someones life on a whim.
When trying to advocate for people, as in, not necessarily friends, but people in general, it's going to go poorly if you call yourself a feminist, in my opinion. Men will simply lie to you.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Except that has not happened to me as two of my friends in Uni are MRA's and i talk to them all the time about gender based issues and sexism, and as they do not identify as it themselves they ask me to take the feminist perspective in them and i gladly do it.

So from my experience with them and others ive not done anything to jeopardize a conversation or experiences on other issues by taking one position, im open to what they have to say and always have been.

I'm glad that's worked out for you, but i'll point out that those were your friends. I'm also assuming you're a guy, right? You don't quite have the same social authority as a feminist woman, in terms of how much hell you can raise to destroy or greatly damage someones life on a whim.
When trying to advocate for people, as in, not necessarily friends, but people in general, it's going to go poorly if you call yourself a feminist, in my opinion. Men will simply lie to you.

Yeah i am a guy, and as i said with others as well who were not my friends, or at the time not yet anyway, so it may be from your experience, but from mine people have been very forthcoming about their opposition to feminism and their experiences with sexism and other issues.

Also in regards to destroying someones life or raising hell against them, i generally dont use politics or ideologies for that in a social space, i prefer a... different approach, and they generally deserve it when it happens, but thats not important.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm glad that's worked out for you, but i'll point out that those were your friends. I'm also assuming you're a guy, right? You don't quite have the same social authority as a feminist woman, in terms of how much hell you can raise to destroy or greatly damage someones life on a whim.
When trying to advocate for people, as in, not necessarily friends, but people in general, it's going to go poorly if you call yourself a feminist, in my opinion. Men will simply lie to you.

Yeah i am a guy, and as i said with others as well who were not my friends, or at the time not yet anyway, so it may be from your experience, but from mine people have been very forthcoming about their opposition to feminism and their experiences with sexism and other issues.

Also in regards to destroying someones life or raising hell against them, i generally dont use politics or ideologies for that in a social space, i prefer a... different approach, and they generally deserve it when it happens, but thats not important.

I'll be honest, i'm a bit bewildered by your post. I'm not saying you are wrong, it's just an alien experience to me. Would you call yourself an MRA?

[The Huskar Social Union]

Yeah i am a guy, and as i said with others as well who were not my friends, or at the time not yet anyway, so it may be from your experience, but from mine people have been very forthcoming about their opposition to feminism and their experiences with sexism and other issues.

Also in regards to destroying someones life or raising hell against them, i generally dont use politics or ideologies for that in a social space, i prefer a... different approach, and they generally deserve it when it happens, but thats not important.

I'll be honest, i'm a bit bewildered by your post. I'm not saying you are wrong, it's just an alien experience to me. Would you call yourself an MRA?

I have yeah, and i do. As i said, i call myself both as i mentioned.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'll be honest, i'm a bit bewildered by your post. I'm not saying you are wrong, it's just an alien experience to me. Would you call yourself an MRA?

I have yeah, and i do. As i said, i call myself both as i mentioned.

Fair enough I suppose. I think we'd probably agree on most issues then, it seems where we have a disagreement is in the viability of the feminist movement and label.
This post though might bridge that gap:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/com ... d_the_mrm/
Would you say you understand my position better now, and why you are an exception to my posts about "feminists?"

I would say you're an "Open" feminist, and thus not actually a problem.

[Kincoboh]

Why are you assuming that women would treat men any better if they had power? That seems kind of like you're assuming men are sexist by default. You're kind of outing yourself as a bigot here.

Oh, I didn't mean it like that. Look no further than good ol' Maggie Thatcher. I believe someone around here has a good quote about her in their signature.

The perpetrators gender isn't relevant. What is relevant is the victims gender. Because it demonstrates sexism against their gender.
Women also perpetuate this.

What do you mean by this?

Men occupy the bottom of society as well as the top, with women in the middle.

Eh? Is this just intuition?

Feminism is right wing as fuck.

You know feminism isn't one homogeneous monolithic entity? There are authoritarian and bigoted feminist groups, like SWERFs and TERFs. Most feminism historically and today are opposed to the status quo, though. How is it right wing?

It looks at men, where the lower stata die in the streets, are homeless, victims of loads of violence, etc. But their top guys? They are really, really fucking wealthy.

Yeah. I'm not saying that these problems aren't problems by any means. But you're going after the wrong people here, in my humble opinion. Perhaps you should look at people in power more.

Then it looks at women, who have a safety net preventing them from falling as low as men most of the time, but their top people can't get quite as far. (Because they aren't indoctrinated into being workaholics.)

Yeah, good that you're recognizing that capitalism is the culprit here.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I understood your position quite well a good while ago, i just think you are excessively fucking hostile towards people sometimes which does nothing but damages peoples perception of your arguments and points, which then in turn makes it harder for people to accept your points due to said hostility as its one of the things that sticks out the most.

[Ostroeuropa]

I understood your position quite well a good while ago, i just think you are excessively hostile towards people sometimes which does nothing but damages peoples perception of your arguments and points.

Yeh probably. I've burned out a bit. It's difficult to put up with and talk to so many utter cunts without becoming a bit of one yourself.
That someone who spends their time around the feminist movement ends up an asshole should probably give people in that movement cause for a bit of self-reflection, but it won't.
I'm aware i'm basically an Anti-SJW. The debating and shit isn't really me trying to help or anything, I volunteer for that, so I don't worry too much about it.


I have gazed into the abyss.
It's not all of them. But it's the norm.
That's why it spreads. The standards of decency and civility are lowered.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I understood your position quite well a good while ago, i just think you are excessively hostile towards people sometimes which does nothing but damages peoples perception of your arguments and points.

Yeh probably. I've burned out a bit. It's difficult to put up with and talk to so many utter cunts without becoming a bit of one yourself.
That someone who spends their time around the feminist movement ends up an asshole should probably give people in that movement cause for a bit of self-reflection, but it won't.
I'm aware i'm basically an Anti-SJW. The debating and shit isn't really me trying to help or anything, I volunteer for that, so I don't worry too much about it.


I have gazed into the abyss.

And it gazed back at you! Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Spooky!

Sorry, could not resist. But yeah ive done it myself and racked up a warning because of it on here not too recently, in short i think we both just have to come to grips on anger and know when to step back and be collective.