The NS Mens Rights Thread

[United States of White America]

Don't push me.

Hahahaha.

Don't laugh.

[Cannabis Islands]

Hahahaha.

Don't laugh.

Could you please stop shitposting?

[The Princes of the Universe]

Hahahaha.

Don't laugh.

The thing is... That just makes me want to laugh more, honey.

[United States of White America]

Don't laugh.

The thing is... That just makes me want to laugh more, honey.

Enough of honey, please.

[Fartsniffage]

Hahahaha.

Don't laugh.

You were serious? I thought you were playing the ITG in the mens rights thread for laughs.....

[Kelinfort]

Hahahaha.

Don't laugh.

Present your argument.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Ohhhhh so edgy, i think i cut my finger.

Don't push me.

Push you? Ahaha what?

What are you going to do, stare at your screen in an angry fashion? Give me a break.

Don't laugh.

Present your argument.

You know what, i second this, lets see your "Argument" as for why neither men or women deserve rights, this oughta be a laugh.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Okay, but this does not address the fact that men and boys are treated horribly in the judicial system. For example, I don't know if this was brought up in this thread, but about this when a women gets a light jail sentence for raping a 15 year old boy at knife point, and if a perpetrator was male and the victim was female, the male perpetrator would get a harsher sentence. While feminists may condemn this evil women's actions, and rightly so, their activism has resulted in shit like this.

A brief post can't possibly address all the actual problems out there that do exist, but it did touch on the fact that we ought to be aiming for equality across the board - not just for one group or other. That was kind of my whole point. Treating people differently due to those things I pointed out - such as your example there - can be rather wrong, when it comes to things like treatment under the law, treatment at work, rights, etc. So yeah. Not really arguing with you on that. I just don't think we need all these divisions. By their very definition, they are divisive.

[Cannabis Islands]

Okay, but this does not address the fact that men and boys are treated horribly in the judicial system. For example, I don't know if this was brought up in this thread, but about this when a women gets a light jail sentence for raping a 15 year old boy at knife point, and if a perpetrator was male and the victim was female, the male perpetrator would get a harsher sentence. While feminists may condemn this evil women's actions, and rightly so, their activism has resulted in shit like this.

A brief post can't possibly address all the actual problems out there that do exist, but it did touch on the fact that we ought to be aiming for equality across the board - not just for one group or other. That was kind of my whole point. Treating people differently due to those things I pointed out - such as your example there - can be rather wrong, when it comes to things like treatment under the law, treatment at work, rights, etc. So yeah. Not really arguing with you on that. I just don't think we need all these divisions. By their very definition, they are divisive.

I respect and hear what you are saying, but why is there no such thing as a "safe space" for men? I gave the example of cis heterosexual females invading a space for MSM. And I may sound bigoted, but sometimes I want to a space for MSM, because I can do things in that space I can't in other spaces. For example, approaching another man and complementing him on his appearance.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

I respect and hear what you are saying, but why is there no such thing as a "safe space" for men? I gave the example of cis heterosexual females invading a space for MSM. And I may sound bigoted, but sometimes I want to a space for MSM, because I can do things in that space I can't in other spaces. For example, approaching another man and complementing him on his appearance.

Honestly, I think a lot has to do with how society has developed. In some cases, things have progressed rather well. In others, we've shot ourselves in the foot more often than not. Having prevailing opinions that women are or ought to be one way, and men another, does neither any favors. I wish I had all the answers, but I don't.

Part of the problem here on the forums is the prevailing opinions of the majority - and I know some are going to get offended at that, but just hear me out. Any time you have any group with a majority sway in the opinions, standards, and processes of a place - on or offline - you are going to have some kickback on it. You'll also get that phenomena of 'we're right' that tends to happen, whether it's actually right or not - a judgment I am not about to make here on liberal vs conservative and the like.

There is a decided preference towards certain causes, certain politics, and certain opinions. That's just the reality of things. And any time you offer a view in opposition of those, you're more likely to get more strenuous disapproval in response. Opinions backed by the appeal to popularity of any given issue, see. It's human nature. Again, not making any judgments.

So when you put together the fact that the majority appear to be of the belief that society has wronged women to the point that this 'patriarchy' has more rights (and granted, there is no arguing that in some areas there are definite inequalities, mind), and has control over how things are done, you suggesting that men in certain circumstances are also being put in unfavorable positions, tends to be met with a lot of scorn and waving off of the subject.

Where I'm coming from, I believe that we, as people, run into plenty of situations where one group or another has to deal with some unpleasant situations due to what they are - men, women, gays & lesbians, transgender people, various ethnic groups, beliefs, etc. That any one happens to be in the majority of a place where this goes on ought not dismiss the fact that there are problems for some in that place, or others, if that makes any sense. My take is that we need to step back from the labels, the divisions, and focus more on the fact that we are all people, and all deserving of common decency from our fellow people. And that under law, we ought to expect fair treatment, regardless of what group(s) we happen to belong to.

Not sure that idea will ever catch on, but there you have it. It's my take on the whole mess, and I'm sticking with it.

[Hirota]

I was referring to another case, I am looking for the link that is appropriate. Will post it when I find it, but my point still stands.

Found this about rape at knifepoint, not sure its the one you were thinking of - http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/04/1 ... efused-sex - 4 years suspended sentence for twice raping and repeatedly stabbing a taxi driver.

Females get away with rape, even if in places of authority, like a teacher.

Debra Lafave, for example.

Nonetheless, there exists evidence that sentencing between genders is skewed.

[Rhyfelnydd]

Hahahaha.

Don't laugh.

You think you have authority. That is fantastic. Present an actual argument and maybe you will find yourself not receiving so much criticism.

[Hirota]

Don't laugh.

Could you please stop shitposting?

That advice should apply to several people.

For the sake of trying to go forward, I mentioned in the FAQs in the opening thread that there is a belief within the fundamentalist conservative movement (including, but not limited to the fundamentalist christian right, and fundamentalist islamic right) who hold the view that societies are more successful with things like defined gender roles. This isn't specifically anti-women's rights, though it is anti-equal rights. Instead, it is a view that men and women should have different responsibilities, and thus different rights and privileges in order to facilitate these roles. This runs contrary to the stated aims of both feminism and the Mens rights movement.

I can't presume to claim that these are the beliefs of White America, but given their posting modus operandi, I think it's reasonable to presume in the absence of any other reasoning.

[United States of White America]

Don't push me.

Push you? Ahaha what?

What are you going to do, stare at your screen in an angry fashion? Give me a break.

Present your argument.

You know what, i second this, lets see your "Argument" as for why neither men or women deserve rights, this oughta be a laugh.

They wasted that right with numerous world wars and gender conflicts.

[United States of White America]

Could you please stop shitposting?

That advice should apply to several people.

For the sake of trying to go forward, I mentioned in the FAQs in the opening thread that there is a belief within the fundamentalist conservative movement (including, but not limited to the fundamentalist christian right, and fundamentalist islamic right) who hold the view that societies are more successful with things like defined gender roles. This isn't specifically anti-women's rights, though it is anti-equal rights. Instead, it is a view that men and women should have different responsibilities, and thus different rights and privileges in order to facilitate these roles. This runs contrary to the stated aims of both feminism and the Mens rights movement.

I can't presume to claim that these are the beliefs of White America, but given their posting modus operandi, I think it's reasonable to presume in the absence of any other reasoning.

They are.

[Cannabis Islands]

I was referring to another case, I am looking for the link that is appropriate. Will post it when I find it, but my point still stands.

Found this about rape at knifepoint, not sure its the one you were thinking of - http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/04/1 ... efused-sex - 4 years suspended sentence for twice raping and repeatedly stabbing a taxi driver.

Females get away with rape, even if in places of authority, like a teacher.

Debra Lafave, for example.

Nonetheless, there exists evidence that sentencing between genders is skewed.

Thank you, that is what I was referring to.

[Hirota]

They are.

I don't want your particular religious beliefs to turn into a threadjack - do it elsewhere, but I'd direct you to consider Galatians 3:28 and the possibility that the fundamentalist christian right is cherry-picking specific passages to further a specific ideology which has very little to do with the values of Christ.

This isn't a religious discussion, and I've done you a favour by explaining your beliefs to those dog-piling in this thread. I would hope the rest of your participation in this thread will be rational, and you'll act in good faith.

[Cannabis Islands]

I respect and hear what you are saying, but why is there no such thing as a "safe space" for men? I gave the example of cis heterosexual females invading a space for MSM. And I may sound bigoted, but sometimes I want to a space for MSM, because I can do things in that space I can't in other spaces. For example, approaching another man and complementing him on his appearance.

Honestly, I think a lot has to do with how society has developed. In some cases, things have progressed rather well. In others, we've shot ourselves in the foot more often than not. Having prevailing opinions that women are or ought to be one way, and men another, does neither any favors. I wish I had all the answers, but I don't.

Part of the problem here on the forums is the prevailing opinions of the majority - and I know some are going to get offended at that, but just hear me out. Any time you have any group with a majority sway in the opinions, standards, and processes of a place - on or offline - you are going to have some kickback on it. You'll also get that phenomena of 'we're right' that tends to happen, whether it's actually right or not - a judgment I am not about to make here on liberal vs conservative and the like.

There is a decided preference towards certain causes, certain politics, and certain opinions. That's just the reality of things. And any time you offer a view in opposition of those, you're more likely to get more strenuous disapproval in response. Opinions backed by the appeal to popularity of any given issue, see. It's human nature. Again, not making any judgments.

So when you put together the fact that the majority appear to be of the belief that society has wronged women to the point that this 'patriarchy' has more rights (and granted, there is no arguing that in some areas there are definite inequalities, mind), and has control over how things are done, you suggesting that men in certain circumstances are also being put in unfavorable positions, tends to be met with a lot of scorn and waving off of the subject.

Where I'm coming from, I believe that we, as people, run into plenty of situations where one group or another has to deal with some unpleasant situations due to what they are - men, women, gays & lesbians, transgender people, various ethnic groups, beliefs, etc. That any one happens to be in the majority of a place where this goes on ought not dismiss the fact that there are problems for some in that place, or others, if that makes any sense. My take is that we need to step back from the labels, the divisions, and focus more on the fact that we are all people, and all deserving of common decency from our fellow people. And that under law, we ought to expect fair treatment, regardless of what group(s) we happen to belong to.

Not sure that idea will ever catch on, but there you have it. It's my take on the whole mess, and I'm sticking with it.

But again, it seems there is this attitude in our current culture that women are entitled to any man(or boy) they want, and I believe feminism enables this belief, even if it's not the promoters of feminism intention. This current culture puts men and boys in a box. For example, that a teenage boy must want to engage in sex with attractive older women, even though I never wanted to when I was a teenager. And because of this, I felt emasculated, that I was not a true man.

[MisandristMantis]

Speaking specifically of rights... Exactly what legal rights do men not have that you believe they should have?

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

But again, it seems there is this attitude in our current culture that women are entitled to any man(or boy) they want, and I believe feminism enables this belief, even if it's not the promoters of feminism intention. This current culture puts men and boys in a box. For example, that a teenage boy must want to engage in sex with attractive older women, even though I never wanted to when I was a teenager. And because of this, I felt emasculated, that I was not a true man.

Ok ... so where in anything I've said have you gotten the impression that I support that, or am capable of doing anything about it by myself? I've agreed with you that there's things that need addressing on all sides. I can't help how you feel about any given thing - nor can anyone. That's an issue you have to work out for yourself.

I was told in HS I couldn't sign up for automotive class because I was a girl. I didn't feel belittled or less a person on account. I got with my guy friends who knew what they were doing, and worked on things myself. Problem solved. I figured the teacher was an ass, and he wasn't going to stop me from doing what I wanted. I'd work on my 66 Mustang myself, screw you guys.

You don't want to feel emasculated? Don't act emasculated. No one can 'force' you to feel a thing you don't allow yourself to feel. Angry, sure. Irritated, why not. But emasculated, because you chose not to fuck an older woman?

Pffft. It's a choice. And its yours to make, not anyone elses. Probably high time you got over that point at least, and focused more on any areas that could actually affect you and shouldn't - such as unfair treatment in divorce cases, or the rare yet possible unfounded rape accusation bits, or abuse by women that men have a hard time proving, admitting, or doing something about.

Granted, this is coming from a woman's viewpoint, but I'd like to think it isn't as limiting as those who seem to think men are responsible for all the wrongs in the world and ought to be properly leashed. I find those females ... rather disturbing.

[Kincoboh]

Why should a man be an MRA when they can be a feminist instead?

[Arcturus Novus]

I'm confused as to what rights women have that men don't. Also, how does the MRA movement feel about trans men? Or men of color?

[Kelinfort]

Push you? Ahaha what?

What are you going to do, stare at your screen in an angry fashion? Give me a break.



You know what, i second this, lets see your "Argument" as for why neither men or women deserve rights, this oughta be a laugh.

They wasted that right with numerous world wars and gender conflicts.

Then it's a privilege, not a right. Rights are given freely. You said, "rights," not, "privileges".

[Cannabis Islands]

But again, it seems there is this attitude in our current culture that women are entitled to any man(or boy) they want, and I believe feminism enables this belief, even if it's not the promoters of feminism intention. This current culture puts men and boys in a box. For example, that a teenage boy must want to engage in sex with attractive older women, even though I never wanted to when I was a teenager. And because of this, I felt emasculated, that I was not a true man.

Ok ... so where in anything I've said have you gotten the impression that I support that, or am capable of doing anything about it by myself? I've agreed with you that there's things that need addressing on all sides. I can't help how you feel about any given thing - nor can anyone. That's an issue you have to work out for yourself.

I was told in HS I couldn't sign up for automotive class because I was a girl. I didn't feel belittled or less a person on account. I got with my guy friends who knew what they were doing, and worked on things myself. Problem solved. I figured the teacher was an ass, and he wasn't going to stop me from doing what I wanted. I'd work on my 66 Mustang myself, screw you guys.

You don't want to feel emasculated? Don't act emasculated. No one can 'force' you to feel a thing you don't allow yourself to feel. Angry, sure. Irritated, why not. But emasculated, because you chose not to fuck an older woman?

Pffft. It's a choice. And its yours to make, not anyone elses. Probably high time you got over that point at least, and focused more on any areas that could actually affect you and shouldn't - such as unfair treatment in divorce cases, or the rare yet possible unfounded rape accusation bits, or abuse by women that men have a hard time proving, admitting, or doing something about.

Granted, this is coming from a woman's viewpoint, but I'd like to think it isn't as limiting as those who seem to think men are responsible for all the wrongs in the world and ought to be properly leashed. I find those females ... rather disturbing.

I said "felt", meaning that it was past tense. I no longer feel this way because I'm an adult and I'm able to recognize more things. But as a teenager that did not know better because well...I was a teenager.
I was giving one example how the current culture puts men and boys in a box, and I do agree with you on many points in your previous post. As for being able to join driver's ed because you were a girl, I would tell those folks they were full of shit.

[Cannabis Islands]

Why should a man be an MRA when they can be a feminist instead?

Because with such things as unfair child custody, the growing gender gap in college enrollment, female rapists getting little to no jail time, and among other things, there needs to be a discussion of men's issues.