The NS Mens Rights Thread

[Dagea]

Hi, men!
I'm just popping by to say that, as a woman, I find a lot of feminists go very overboard and go to lengths where men's rights are infringed upon.
I fully support you guys!

[Ostroeuropa]

No, the feminist narrative on the oppression of women, instead of just sexism being shit.
If the law was changed while ignoring that sometimes girls rape boys, that is a problem which feminism is part of, and arguably the biggest cause of in the modern era due to their monopoly on gender issues.
Do you really not see a problem with the way the feminist movement conducts itself and advocates for gender issues?
it's completely fucked. It causes things like this to happen.

see my above post. maybe you could argue that even in 1275 and 1885 they were ignorant of males being raped, which let's be honest, they almost definitely were. but that has shit all to do with feminism. and again like i said i am skeptical that your views of western feminism apply in china. it looks to me like you are forgetting that there can be sexism against males from people that are not feminists.

I'll admit, gynocentrists of different flavors are shockingly difficult to tell apart.
There was an MRM game a while back
"Traditional conservative or feminist?" in the spirit of "SJW or stormfront?".
Maybe that should give you pause.

[Alyakia]

i'm also going to again say fuck it and point out both we and china managed to come up with sexist age of consent laws before feminism was a serious force or before it even existed so again the onus to prove that this is eve actually happening the way you describe it and that it is feminism that is to blame is on you

edward i you damn feminist

"But but, the economy was broken when we came to power in the 1990's, so it's not our fault it's still a complete clusterfuck!"

Yeh, it fucking is. Feminists have a great deal of institutional power, and the way they use it is extremely indicative of feminism as an ideology and a movement.
It's so fucked that their DV campaign is an utter farce, as I pointed out
here:
https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopi ... #p25710333

This is what a feminist outlook gets you.

my point was that your posts about institutional power in western countries and campaigns in western countries do not translate 1:1 to institutional power in the people's republic of china until i am shown strongly otherwise. for example, as far as i can tell none of your sources in those posts were related to china, so how are they relevant to feminism in china?

[Ostroeuropa]

"But but, the economy was broken when we came to power in the 1990's, so it's not our fault it's still a complete clusterfuck!"

Yeh, it fucking is. Feminists have a great deal of institutional power, and the way they use it is extremely indicative of feminism as an ideology and a movement.
It's so fucked that their DV campaign is an utter farce, as I pointed out
here:
viewtopic.php?p=25710333#p25710333

This is what a feminist outlook gets you.

my point was that your posts about institutional power in western countries and campaigns in western countries do not translate 1:1 to institutional power in the people's republic of china until proven otherwise

Alright. That's fine. It's entirely possible I mixed them up.
But frankly, I don't properly see much of a distinction between white nationalists and white seperatists.
With feminism and traditional gynocentrism, it's similar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism_in_China
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-China ... nist_Party
And also.

Worth a read.

Feminism in china does seem Institutionally entrenched.
When you consider all the waffling our feminists do about the plight of women in that country, it becomes a bit of a farce again.

Maybe they are in such dire straights because feminism is a ridiculous movement that doesn't actually fix sexism, and only ends up creating more of it.

[Tahar Joblis]

"But but, the economy was broken when we came to power in the 1990's, so it's not our fault it's still a complete clusterfuck!"

Yeh, it fucking is. Feminists have a great deal of institutional power, and the way they use it is extremely indicative of feminism as an ideology and a movement.
It's so fucked that their DV campaign is an utter farce, as I pointed out
here:
https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopi ... #p25710333

This is what a feminist outlook gets you.

my point was that your posts about institutional power in western countries and campaigns in western countries do not translate 1:1 to institutional power in the people's republic of china until i am shown strongly otherwise. for example, as far as i can tell none of your sources in those posts were related to china, so how are they relevant to feminism in china?

Within China, approved forms of feminism are basically part of the party's ideological apparatus. (As with any other political activist, feminist activists must step carefully if they are working outside of the system.)

Basic communist ideology says that men and women are equal. This runs counter to long-standing Chinese cultural tradition.

[Ostroeuropa]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/com ... ting_rape/

Seen here:
A complete lack of the media shitstorm about rape culture.
A complete lack of feminists losing their shit on twitter.
Proof that they are full of shit when they say feminism cares about mens issues too.

I've not seen one internet shitstorm caused by feminists about mens issues, and plenty for womens ones.
I've not seen feminists go on a lynching campaign when a woman says something sexist, just when a man does. etc


The final awful point about feminism on this issue is that rape culture was originally used as a term to describe the prison population, and feminists appropriated it and started running their mouth about women again, to once again derail attempts to fix mens issues.

Find me a major newspaper in the US advocating the rape of women.
Go ahead.

You are utterly delusional if you think our society isn't misandrist.

It's not a matter of hate per say, it's a matter of utter sociopathic lack of empathy when it comes to men, and the vast majority of the population has this problem. I would say it's a result of gynocentrism, of which feminism is just the latest incarnation.

If the mute feminists who oh so care about mens equality to such a degree that they are completely fucking silent on mens issues could find it in their hearts to shut the fuck up permanently instead of only talking when their movement is threatened, we might finally get somewhere in dismantling the current gender narrative.

I'll say it again. If you're one of those feminists who whines about how not all feminists are like that, your words are fucking worthless. SHOW me they aren't like that. Go and fucking do something other than trying to derail criticism of your movement, I sometimes dislike your type more than the rabid sexists, they at least seem self-aware that they are a problem for society, they just don't care.

[Ostroeuropa]

Reminder that men's utility to women is so emphasized in our society that a man who has been raped or sexually assaulted by a woman is congratulated for fulfilling his proper role.

[Grave_n_idle]

Reminder that men's utility to women is so emphasized in our society that a man who has been raped or sexually assaulted by a woman is congratulated for fulfilling his proper role.

Reminder that cheese is a kind of meat.

[Alyakia]

Reminder that men's utility to women is so emphasized in our society that a man who has been raped or sexually assaulted by a woman is congratulated for fulfilling his proper role.

how are you differentiating between men's utility to women and women's utility to men? i don't think the bros saying they'd love to be raped by a woman are thinking about what the woman gets out of it. quite the opposite actually. which is the entire problem.

i don't think it needs to be stated that the tories are bad and rape is bad and that prison rape is often treated as a joke or desirable despite being rape and therefore bad. i like think that by this point i have solid anti-rape credentials.

[Ostroeuropa]

Reminder that men's utility to women is so emphasized in our society that a man who has been raped or sexually assaulted by a woman is congratulated for fulfilling his proper role.

how are you differentiating between men's utility to women and women's utility to men? i don't think the bros saying they'd love to be raped by a woman are thinking about what the woman gets out of it. quite the opposite actually. which is the entire problem.

i don't think it needs to be stated that the tories are bad and rape is bad and that prison rape is often treated as a joke or desirable despite being rape and therefore bad. i like think that by this point i have solid anti-rape credentials.

Womens utility to men sexually had the same issues at one point, but no longer does in the public consciousness. (Excepting outlier cases, it isn't a majority viewpoint anymore.)
So no, it's not the entire problem. It's a part of the problem that you've decided to focus on while ignoring the rest because it's ideologically inconvenient.

Men's utility to women is emphasized constantly in our culture. That is the entire nature of provide/protect.

You can tell this because, notably, a man who fucks a woman but fails to get her off isn't congratulated quite as much now is he?
Almost like, I dunno, the giving her a good one is what all the congratulations were about in the first place?

You go dude, you're a real man being of utility to a woman again!

I'm not calling you pro-rape or anything. I'm saying you're actively avoiding questioning whether your worldview actually stands up to scrutiny
because you don't like what it implies about our society, and women especially.

[Alyakia]

you have turned a situation where men wanting women for sexual pleasure is so ingrained people cannot imagine the idea of a man not wanting sexual pleasure from a woman so how can they be raped into something about men's utility to women and you are saying i am the one that is changing things because it is ideologically inconvenient?

yeah, i am far more concerned with "real men always want sex" than "real men are good in bed" because the former is obviously much more of an issue when the men are being shamed for not wanting sex. and yeha, women that can't get men off either don't exactly get heaps of praise. being bad in bed is bad is not a feminist narrative against men.

actually i just realized that not only do most young men have sex because they like it but that there are acts that specifically only pleasure one sex and there are literal entire genres of pornography out there dedicated entirely to being of utility and getting nothing back and actually getting stuck providing for a woman often counts as a failure. based on this i'm going to say that no someone that is bragging about how they got blown last night and all their friends go wow good job dude are not talking about being of utility to a woman.

[Ostroeuropa]

you have turned a situation where men wanting women for sexual pleasure is so ingrained people cannot imagine the idea of a man not wanting sexual pleasure from a woman so how can they be raped into something about men's utility to women and you are saying i am the one that is changing things because it is ideologically inconvenient?

yeah, i am far more concerned with "real men always want sex" than "real men are good in bed" because the former is obviously much more of an issue when the men are being shamed for not wanting sex. and yeha, women that can't get men off either don't exactly get heaps of praise. being bad in bed is bad is not a feminist narrative against men.

actually i just realized that not only do most young men have sex because they like it but that there are acts that specifically only pleasure one sex and there are literal entire genres of pornography out there dedicated entirely to being of utility and getting nothing back and actually getting stuck providing for a woman often counts as a failure. based on this i'm going to say that no someone that is bragging about how they got blown last night and all their friends go wow good job dude are not talking about being of utility to a woman.

Always wanting sex is another aspect of the problem. I didn't claim it was a feminist narrative, just a gynocentric one. Which is where feminism overlaps with traditionalism.

In those other situations, i'd say that yes, there it's more about men always wanting sex. But the utility to women part is a part of why that notion exists. These are overlapping phenomena, not necessarily monolithic.

I can't tell, do you honestly not see utility to women being a recurring theme in what defines being a real man? (According to the wider culture, not you specifically.)

[Knask]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3i0ykm/wtf_new_york_post_why_are_you_advocating_rape/

Seen here:
A complete lack of the media shitstorm about rape culture.

Not
a
critical
word
found

[Alyakia]

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/obama-to-ent ... ison-rape/

holy shit the goddamn president of the united states

[Ostroeuropa]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3i0ykm/wtf_new_york_post_why_are_you_advocating_rape/

Seen here:
A complete lack of the media shitstorm about rape culture.

Not
a
critical
word
found

Where are the demands for them to resign? The twitter shitstorm? etc
Also note the lack of long, masturbatory articles about how this is indicative of endemic hatred and whatever.
The independent one is 3 paragraphs long.
ALL of them are under 6 paragraphs. (Except the last.)

It seems like their heart isn't really in it. Beyond that, no television coverage.

They are very, very different in tone and content to the usual shit they push.
Further, a lot of them is recitation of events. No condemnation.


The incident was noted, and then they were done. No shitstorm occured. Actually read those articles. It's disingenuous to pretend that this is how they would respond to a national newspaper making light of rape against women.

Further, are you tacitly admitting that you agree with me that much of the media is, in fact, feminist?

This was a pitiful attempt to prove me wrong frankly. All you've done is supply evidence for my claim.


Here is one of those articles:

Today's Press Party started with the controversial front page of the New York Post seemingly make a joke about Jared Fogle being raped. Fogle is reportedly set to plead guilty to child pornography charges and having sex with minors. The panel chalked up the front page to the Post being the Post; an unapologetic daily tabloid that has no problem pushing boundaries and coming across as insensitive.

Also on the docket, presidential contender Scott Walker, who in the past has boasted of his availability for media, is suddenly screening questions. According to a tweet from a Wall Street Journal reporter and an article in Politico, the Republican candidate's campaign asked reporters what questions they intended to ask during a conference call. Is he taking a cue from Hillary Clinton?

And a supposed "expose" on Amazon in the New York Time unravels as current and former employees speak in favor of the 20-year-old company. So does this mean the paper was too quick to publish a story, again?

Today's panel included Herald Radio's John Sapochetti, Chris Villani and veteran-journalist Frank Herron.

Not really looking like you've proven shit, is it?

"Controversial" is not a "Critical word" now is it. In fact, that one barely mentions the incident at all. The others are all similar. (except the last)
No condemnation occurs, etc.

If this is feminism advocating for mens issues, then they definately need to let someone else do it.

I can't tell if you just didn't notice how pathetic the response to this is, or if you're being disingenuous. I'm used to both.

The last article is the only decent one there frankly, and that one points out how systemic this problem is.

A recent anti-meth ad campaign featured a photo of a jail cell and a caption that read: "No one thinks they'll spend a romantic evening here. Meth will change that."
The message, apparently, is that the government has the resources to put you in jail for using drugs, but won't do anything to protect you from being violated in its custody.

(And, not coincidentally, the examiner is often linked on the mens rights reddit.)

So of the six papers we've reviewed thus far.
One engages in rape jokes against men.
Four of them note that this joke was made.
Two of them condemn the joke.
One of them goes on to actually explain at least SOME of the problem of prison rape and how systemic it is, as well as how often jokes are made about it.
None of them call for any actual action to be taken.
No twitter campaign occurs.
No feminists protest the headquarters of the new york post.

You people got upset over a fucking t-shirt being worn by a private citizen, you couldn't rustle up fucking ANYTHING for an actual institution engaging in sexism?
I'm done taking feminists seriously when they lie and say they care about mens issues. You've proven consistently that you don't. What you care about is being seen to be egalitarian. You talk the talk and consistently do nothing but obstruct actual progress.

[Ostroeuropa]

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/obama-to-entertainers-stop-making-jokes-about-prison-rape/

holy shit the goddamn president of the united states

For which he's earned a lot of respect from the MRM. But just like having a black guy as president doesn't end racism, having a person who understands at least one issue with mens rights be president doesn't end sexism against men. Especially not sexism against men in the media.

[Knask]

Not
a
critical
word
found

Where are the demands for them to resign? The twitter shitstorm? etc
Also note the lack of long, masturbatory articles about how this is indicative of endemic hatred and whatever.
The independent one is 3 paragraphs long.
ALL of them are under 6 paragraphs. (Except the last.)

It seems like their heart isn't really in it. Beyond that, no television coverage.

They are very, very different in tone and content to the usual shit they push.
Further, a lot of them is recitation of events. No condemnation.


The incident was noted, and then they were done. No shitstorm occured. Actually read those articles. It's disingenuous to pretend that this is how they would respond to a national newspaper making light of rape against women.

Further, are you tacitly admitting that you agree with me that much of the media is, in fact, feminist?

This was a pitiful attempt to prove me wrong frankly. All you've done is supply evidence for my claim.


Here is one of those articles:

Today's Press Party started with the controversial front page of the New York Post seemingly make a joke about Jared Fogle being raped. Fogle is reportedly set to plead guilty to child pornography charges and having sex with minors. The panel chalked up the front page to the Post being the Post; an unapologetic daily tabloid that has no problem pushing boundaries and coming across as insensitive.

Also on the docket, presidential contender Scott Walker, who in the past has boasted of his availability for media, is suddenly screening questions. According to a tweet from a Wall Street Journal reporter and an article in Politico, the Republican candidate's campaign asked reporters what questions they intended to ask during a conference call. Is he taking a cue from Hillary Clinton?

And a supposed "expose" on Amazon in the New York Time unravels as current and former employees speak in favor of the 20-year-old company. So does this mean the paper was too quick to publish a story, again?

Today's panel included Herald Radio's John Sapochetti, Chris Villani and veteran-journalist Frank Herron.

Not really looking like you've proven shit, is it?

"Controversial" is not a "Critical word" now is it. In fact, that one barely mentions the incident at all. The others are all similar. (except the last)
No condemnation occurs, etc.

If this is feminism advocating for mens issues, then they definately need to let someone else do it.

I can't tell if you just didn't notice how pathetic the response to this is, or if you're being disingenuous. I'm used to both.

The last article is the only decent one there frankly, and that one points out how systemic this problem is.

A recent anti-meth ad campaign featured a photo of a jail cell and a caption that read: "No one thinks they'll spend a romantic evening here. Meth will change that."
The message, apparently, is that the government has the resources to put you in jail for using drugs, but won't do anything to protect you from being violated in its custody.

(And, not coincidentally, the examiner is often linked on the mens rights reddit.)

So of the six papers we've reviewed thus far.
One engages in rape jokes against men.
Four of them note that this joke was made.
Two of them condemn the joke.
One of them goes on to actually explain at least SOME of the problem of prison rape and how systemic it is, as well as how often jokes are made about it.
None of them call for any actual action to be taken.
No twitter campaign occurs.
No feminists protest the headquarters of the new york post.

You people got upset over a fucking t-shirt, you couldn't rustle up fucking ANYTHING?
I'm done taking feminists seriously when they lie and say they care about mens issues. You've proven consistently that you don't.

Why would I want to prove you wrong? I agree with you. The failure to be outrage at a level that I find acceptible and sufficient means there's been no outrage, and any article condemming what happened can be dismissed.

I too blame the feminists for this. I shall promptly yell at them on Twitter, the one true source.

[Ostroeuropa]

Where are the demands for them to resign? The twitter shitstorm? etc
Also note the lack of long, masturbatory articles about how this is indicative of endemic hatred and whatever.
The independent one is 3 paragraphs long.
ALL of them are under 6 paragraphs. (Except the last.)

It seems like their heart isn't really in it. Beyond that, no television coverage.

They are very, very different in tone and content to the usual shit they push.
Further, a lot of them is recitation of events. No condemnation.


The incident was noted, and then they were done. No shitstorm occured. Actually read those articles. It's disingenuous to pretend that this is how they would respond to a national newspaper making light of rape against women.

Further, are you tacitly admitting that you agree with me that much of the media is, in fact, feminist?

This was a pitiful attempt to prove me wrong frankly. All you've done is supply evidence for my claim.


Here is one of those articles:


Not really looking like you've proven shit, is it?

"Controversial" is not a "Critical word" now is it. In fact, that one barely mentions the incident at all. The others are all similar. (except the last)
No condemnation occurs, etc.

If this is feminism advocating for mens issues, then they definately need to let someone else do it.

I can't tell if you just didn't notice how pathetic the response to this is, or if you're being disingenuous. I'm used to both.

The last article is the only decent one there frankly, and that one points out how systemic this problem is.



(And, not coincidentally, the examiner is often linked on the mens rights reddit.)

So of the six papers we've reviewed thus far.
One engages in rape jokes against men.
Four of them note that this joke was made.
Two of them condemn the joke.
One of them goes on to actually explain at least SOME of the problem of prison rape and how systemic it is, as well as how often jokes are made about it.
None of them call for any actual action to be taken.
No twitter campaign occurs.
No feminists protest the headquarters of the new york post.

You people got upset over a fucking t-shirt, you couldn't rustle up fucking ANYTHING?
I'm done taking feminists seriously when they lie and say they care about mens issues. You've proven consistently that you don't.

Why would I want to prove you wrong? I agree with you. The failure to be outrage at a level that I find acceptible and sufficient means there's been no outrage, and any article condemming what happened can be dismissed.

I too blame the feminists for this. I shall promptly yell at them on Twitter, the one true source.

There was no outrage in those articles at all is the point.
Some of them don't even actually condemn the thing, as I just showed you.
Only one of them was halfway decent.
If you honestly think these are similar to how the press treats womens issues, then I don't understand how you can think that.
I'd encourage everyone to read through those articles you provided, and compare to how articles about women and rape are usually presented.

These were pitiful, except the last one, which seemed like a decent effort.

I'm dismissing the first four because they weren't actually what you are pretending they are.
I'm also pointing out that there has been a distinct lack of any organization or action from the movement that claims it cares about mens issues too, despite the fact that had this been a national paper making fun of women being raped, we all know there would be a lot of action.
I don't know who the fuck you think you are fooling

[United States of White America]

Both men and women don't deserve rights.

[Adnan Nawaz And Bureacrats Elsewhere]

Both men and women don't deserve rights.

Whoa, you're really blunt. You don't like people that much.

[Kvatchdom]

Wouldn't it be easier to not include a gender's name in your ideology?

[Ostroeuropa]

Wouldn't it be easier to not include a gender's name in your ideology?

It's not an ideology, it's a movement.

Like LGBT.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Both men and women don't deserve rights.

Ohhhhh so edgy, i think i cut my finger.

[MisandristMantis]

Wouldn't it be easier to not include a gender's name in your ideology?

It's not an ideology, it's a movement.

Like LGBT.

In what way is the mens rights movement like LGBT?

[Sebtopiaris]

It's not an ideology, it's a movement.

Like LGBT.

In what way is the mens rights movement like LGBT?

"guys guys guys we're oppressed methinks"
"maybe we should start up... an ideology maybe?"
"nah, we need to make action happen and protest"
this is how you get a movement

movements=/=ideologies although movements can have ideologies.
MRAs and LGBT activists are both in movements.