The NS Mens Rights Thread

[New Grestin]

Why we can't all just focus on Egalitarianism and making both genders equal in terms of societal standing is beyond me.

[Oneracon]

Why we can't all just focus on Egalitarianism and making both genders equal in terms of societal standing is beyond me.

That is what both groups focus on, they are approaching it from different ways.

"Egalitarianism" isn't a movement, it's a concept.

[Val Halla]

I think that feminists and MRAs should work together, so we can work on the inequalities that face men, and the inequalities that face women.

I agree but then it means the more radical aspects particularly within feminism would need a change of mind.

I think the radicals of both sides are what cause the hostility sometimes.

[Kelinfort]

I agree with many of their goals, but I'll never call myself one.

[Ostroeuropa]

I think that feminists and MRAs should work together, so we can work on the inequalities that face men, and the inequalities that face women.

You'll find that almost all MRAs already support genuine discrimination against women being fought against, and do so themselves on occasion.
We're willing to work with them. They aren't with us.
This isn't a case where being neutral means you aren't picking a side. There is clearly one movement more in the wrong here. I know how that sounds, but it's just the facts.
The MRM wouldn't need to exist if feminism weren't so utterly hostile to men talking about their problems and trying to organize to fix them.

You've seen the CAFE protest videos and such.

You have to remember, the MRM only talks shit about feminism when feminism directly causes problems for men.
Feminists meanwhile assert that the MRM is nebulously somehow evil. It's ridiculous.

[The New Great Roman Empire]

Most of the issues listen I have seen feminists advocate for helping but often times that sentiment is pretty much ignored, so I don't find anything wrong with a group fighting for that. But I've found the extremists... to be comically bad.

[Ostroeuropa]

Most of the issues listen I have seen feminists advocate for helping but often times that sentiment is pretty much ignored, so I don't find anything wrong with a group fighting for that. But I've found the extremists... to be comically bad.

Can you give an example of what such an extremist might say?

[Oneracon]

I think that feminists and MRAs should work together, so we can work on the inequalities that face men, and the inequalities that face women.

You'll find that almost all MRAs already support genuine discrimination against women being fought against, and do so themselves on occasion.
We're willing to work with them. They aren't with us.
This isn't a case where being neutral means you aren't picking a side. There is clearly one movement more in the wrong here. I know how that sounds, but it's just the facts.
The MRM wouldn't need to exist if feminism weren't so utterly hostile to men talking about their problems and trying to organize to fix them.

You've seen the CAFE protest videos and such.

You have to remember, the MRM only talks shit about feminism when feminism directly causes problems for men.
Feminists meanwhile assert that the MRM is nebulously somehow evil. It's ridiculous.

And again, the reasons why many feminist groups don't want to work with MRA groups is because of the troubling stuff that they've done. This goes back to the 1970s when the Men's Lib movement split into pro-feminist and anti-feminist sides, of which the modern "MRA" groups emerged from the latter. The fact that it was, at least historically, mainstream in MRA groups to actively oppose legal reforms for women's rights and fight for the so-called "traditional" family structures and gender roles.

Neither side is without blame here.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Most of the issues listen I have seen feminists advocate for helping but often times that sentiment is pretty much ignored, so I don't find anything wrong with a group fighting for that. But I've found the extremists... to be comically bad.

Can you give an example of what such an extremist might say?

I once heard someone say feminist deserve to be raped. Because yeah, people are fucking crazy.

[The Serbian Empire]

I agree but then it means the more radical aspects particularly within feminism would need a change of mind.

I think the radicals of both sides are what cause the hostility sometimes.

The MRM seems to keep the radicals in check better.

[New Grestin]

Why we can't all just focus on Egalitarianism and making both genders equal in terms of societal standing is beyond me.

That is what both groups focus on, they are approaching it from different ways.

"Egalitarianism" isn't a movement, it's a concept.

It really should be a movement, if you ask me.

That said, I'm supportive of any movement to ensure gender equalization (within reason).

You know, you guys seem to have a lot of issues with Feminists, but have you tried working with the more moderate ones? I've met more than enough feminists that weren't raging, maniacal radicals. It seems like the crazies are the exception, not the rule.

[Ostroeuropa]

On the topic of sexual assault, and neatly segueing into combating the perception that the MRM is about straight guys:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/com ... _from_the/

I've noticed that women feel entitled to getting quite handsy with gay men. Touching and groping them inappropriately like it's their right. They don't respect gay spaces and they certainly don't respect gay male personal spaces.

So this is a demonstration of women invading male safe spaces with the intention of objectifying them and acting like complete assholes, including assault and perhaps sexual assault, but it's framed as a gay vs straight thing. At least the author was good enough to note that it's only straight women doing this in giving examples of it, but when they talk in terms of characterizing the problem suddenly it's a gay vs straight thing.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015 ... asion.html

It's a common MRM point that many, many women seem apparently unaware they are capable of commiting sexual assault and rape.
Some MRAs will argue that we need to teach women not to rape, men already know, though that's mostly being snide.

A clear solution is to establish a more comprehensive sex education that deals with these topics in a genderless manner, and to educate men on their sexual rights, as well as to put forward information campaigns to tell people about this problem, specifically from a woman-to-man perpetrator.

[Ostroeuropa]

You'll find that almost all MRAs already support genuine discrimination against women being fought against, and do so themselves on occasion.
We're willing to work with them. They aren't with us.
This isn't a case where being neutral means you aren't picking a side. There is clearly one movement more in the wrong here. I know how that sounds, but it's just the facts.
The MRM wouldn't need to exist if feminism weren't so utterly hostile to men talking about their problems and trying to organize to fix them.

You've seen the CAFE protest videos and such.

You have to remember, the MRM only talks shit about feminism when feminism directly causes problems for men.
Feminists meanwhile assert that the MRM is nebulously somehow evil. It's ridiculous.

And again, the reasons why many feminist groups don't want to work with MRA groups is because of the troubling stuff that they've done. This goes back to the 1970s when the Men's Lib movement split into pro-feminist and anti-feminist sides, of which the modern "MRA" groups emerged from the latter. The fact that it was, at least historically, mainstream in MRA groups to actively oppose legal reforms for women's rights and fight for the so-called "traditional" family structures and gender roles.

Neither side is without blame here.

I don't conflate current feminism with the first or second wave.
They shouldn't conflate previous incarnations of the MRM with this one.

In this wave, one side really is to blame. And it's not us.
Though, if you're going to include the histories of the movements, then you have to point out that the reason for that split in the first place was feminisms active hostility to working on mens issues.

That's why menslib never got shit done, despite being pro-feminist.
The failure of menslib reveals the lie that feminists peddle.

[Internationalist Bastard]

On the topic of sexual assault, and neatly segueing into combating the perception that the MRM is about straight guys:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/com ... _from_the/

I've noticed that women feel entitled to getting quite handsy with gay men. Touching and groping them inappropriately like it's their right. They don't respect gay spaces and they certainly don't respect gay male personal spaces.

So this is a demonstration of women invading male safe spaces with the intention of objectifying them and acting like complete assholes, including assault and perhaps sexual assault, but it's framed as a gay vs straight thing. At least the author was good enough to note that it's only straight women doing this in giving examples of it, but when they talk in terms of characterizing the problem suddenly it's a gay vs straight thing.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015 ... asion.html

It's a common MRM point that many, many women seem apparently unaware they are capable of commiting sexual assault and rape.
Some MRAs will argue that we need to teach women not to rape, men already know, though that's mostly being snide.

A clear solution is to establish a more comprehensive sex education that deals with these topics in a genderless manner, and to educate men on their sexual rights, as well as to put forward information campaigns to tell people about this problem, specifically from a woman-to-man perpetrator.

Male rape is generally put forward as joke, and it really sucks.

[Ostroeuropa]

On the topic of sexual assault, and neatly segueing into combating the perception that the MRM is about straight guys:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/com ... _from_the/





http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015 ... asion.html

It's a common MRM point that many, many women seem apparently unaware they are capable of commiting sexual assault and rape.
Some MRAs will argue that we need to teach women not to rape, men already know, though that's mostly being snide.

A clear solution is to establish a more comprehensive sex education that deals with these topics in a genderless manner, and to educate men on their sexual rights, as well as to put forward information campaigns to tell people about this problem, specifically from a woman-to-man perpetrator.

Male rape is generally put forward as joke, and it really sucks.

That's the case for male perpetrator male victim rape, but i've found female perpetrator rapes tend to be denied as even possible.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Male rape is generally put forward as joke, and it really sucks.

That's the case for male perpetrator male victim rape, but i've found female perpetrator rapes tend to be denied as even possible.

And I can vouch that is.

[Ostroeuropa]

That is what both groups focus on, they are approaching it from different ways.

"Egalitarianism" isn't a movement, it's a concept.

It really should be a movement, if you ask me.

That said, I'm supportive of any movement to ensure gender equalization (within reason).

You know, you guys seem to have a lot of issues with Feminists, but have you tried working with the more moderate ones? I've met more than enough feminists that weren't raging, maniacal radicals. It seems like the crazies are the exception, not the rule.

CAFE was an MRM club that was entirely moderate.
Feminists did not want to work with them.

If I founded an organization for mens rights, I expect it would be exactly the same.

You're missing the problem, really. Any explicitly MRM group will be opposed by feminists, and moderate ones will not support it. (Though they may also, not oppose.)
They think the solution to mens issues needs to come from within the feminist movement, and they will not yield on this point.
The fact that it's utterly fucking failed to materialize despite 100 years of waiting doesn't deter their ideological zeal.

Moderate Feminists want to work with us...
Within the feminist movement.

We consider that completely counter productive.

They are not willing to budge on this. So that's that.

[Sino nations]

Mens Rights Would Destroy Alimony.
Because Alimony Is Feminazi creation to bankrupt men.

[Ostroeuropa]

That's the case for male perpetrator male victim rape, but i've found female perpetrator rapes tend to be denied as even possible.

And I can vouch that is.

I'm sorry to hear that.
What's been your experience in how people perceive it? Same as mine?

[Yedmnrutika Gavr]

thank you for making this! hope your intentions are good, too, and its not just a bait or reflexive action. those things you listed really are important areas that society needs to work on but the type of male-dominated society that is currently in place marginalizes all those things in order to keep the image of males it wants. this is especially relevant in the cases of rape and domestic violence. in regards to the homeless situation i think thats an easy fix. open more shelters and deny no one, male or female. make it law even. i think shelter is a basic human right up there with water and common decency.

[Internationalist Bastard]

And I can vouch that is.

I'm sorry to hear that.
What's been your experience in how people perceive it? Same as mine?

I don't know people perceive it for you, but people usually laugh. I was 11.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm sorry to hear that.
What's been your experience in how people perceive it? Same as mine?

I don't know people perceive it for you, but people usually laugh. I was 11.

I'm sorry to hear that.
I havn't had it happen to me personally, but I perceive that people tend to laugh or deny it's possible yes.
I've had a similar experience with domestic violence.

Annoyingly, other than the mens rights movement, the only people to give any form of solidarity or solace were traditionalist conservatives who would simply tell me I should have beat the shit into her. The rest laugh. Or deny it's possible.
Some know about the issues, and that's always nice.

But it was the MRM that really gave me sympathy and helped me to open up about it.

While it's not rape, I think I can understand how you feel when it happens.
Do you get the guilt about not correcting them?
I try and correct them when I have the nerve, but a lot of the time it's difficult when you are very outnumbered.

[New Macedonia propper]

Why we can't all just focus on Egalitarianism and making both genders equal in terms of societal standing is beyond me.

So The Ineqaulity of Intersex Persons is in the Agenda of Egalatarianism?No it's not,Egalitarianism is about the Equality of all three genders,not just two.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

I think that feminists and MRAs should work together, so we can work on the inequalities that face men, and the inequalities that face women.

I'm quite pleased to work on both on my side of the fence, thank you.

[Ostroeuropa]

I think that feminists and MRAs should work together, so we can work on the inequalities that face men, and the inequalities that face women.

I'm quite pleased to work on both on my side of the fence, thank you.

It really should be a movement, if you ask me.

That said, I'm supportive of any movement to ensure gender equalization (within reason).

You know, you guys seem to have a lot of issues with Feminists, but have you tried working with the more moderate ones? I've met more than enough feminists that weren't raging, maniacal radicals. It seems like the crazies are the exception, not the rule.

CAFE was an MRM club that was entirely moderate.
Feminists did not want to work with them.

If I founded an organization for mens rights, I expect it would be exactly the same.

You're missing the problem, really. Any explicitly MRM group will be opposed by feminists, and moderate ones will not support it. (Though they may also, not oppose.)
They think the solution to mens issues needs to come from within the feminist movement, and they will not yield on this point.
The fact that it's utterly fucking failed to materialize despite 100 years of waiting doesn't deter their ideological zeal.

Moderate Feminists want to work with us...
Within the feminist movement.

We consider that completely counter productive.

They are not willing to budge on this. So that's that.

Told you so. This is why their movement is more at fault.