The NS Mens Rights Thread

[Ostroeuropa]

That's acceptable. Good luck

So what about adoption? I wouldn't have to reveal my sexuality for that either correct?

I'm almost certain you won't have to. Although if you become married, you are likely to have to reveal your partners identity, which will make it somewhat obvious.

If single, you should be able to maintain your privacy on this issue.

[Alyakia]

That's acceptable. Good luck

So what about adoption? I wouldn't have to reveal my sexuality for that either correct?

you are asking a welsh guy about laws in an american state

[Bearon]

So what about adoption? I wouldn't have to reveal my sexuality for that either correct?

you are asking a welsh guy about laws in an american state

Apologies. I assume the majority of people on the internet ( aside from rather specific forums/sites ) are American and male. It's simply something drilled into my head over the years.

So what about adoption? I wouldn't have to reveal my sexuality for that either correct?

I'm almost certain you won't have to. Although if you become married, you are likely to have to reveal your partners identity, which will make it somewhat obvious.

If single, you should be able to maintain your privacy on this issue.

How much harder is it for a single male to adopt a child then a single female or a couple?

[Ostroeuropa]

Bearon, you're in luck.
California has a non-discrimination adoption policy protecting LGBT parents.

[Geilinor]

How much harder is it for a single male to adopt a child then a single female or a couple?

Without sources, I'd guess many times harder.

[Valystria]

you are asking a welsh guy about laws in an american state

Ostro doesn't identify as male.

[Ostroeuropa]

you are asking a welsh guy about laws in an american state

Apologies. I assume the majority of people on the internet ( aside from rather specific forums/sites ) are American and male. It's simply something drilled into my head over the years.

I'm almost certain you won't have to. Although if you become married, you are likely to have to reveal your partners identity, which will make it somewhat obvious.

If single, you should be able to maintain your privacy on this issue.

How much harder is it for a single male to adopt a child then a single female or a couple?

Stereotypes about men and women.

Men are depicted in the media as sexually deviant and predatory.

In addition, women are portrayed as naturally talented at parenthood.

In many tv shows, the dad is depicted as stupid and incompetent.

[Bearon]

Bearon, you're in luck.
California has a non-discrimination adoption policy protecting LGBT parents.

WOOOOH!!!

[Camicon]

Clearly. Single-men who like children are probably sexual predators, if you listen to the feminist narrative.

But I love children. D: What should I expect to encounter regarding the perceived perverseness/pedophilia of males when I become an elementary school teacher?

Good to meet another man that wants to teach elementary. You in an Education program yet?

[Bearon]

Apologies. I assume the majority of people on the internet ( aside from rather specific forums/sites ) are American and male. It's simply something drilled into my head over the years.



How much harder is it for a single male to adopt a child then a single female or a couple?

Stereotypes about men and women.

Men are depicted in the media as sexually deviant and predatory.

In addition, women are portrayed as naturally talented at parenthood.

In many tv shows, the dad is depicted as stupid and incompetent.

It's quite the negative stereotype. Maybe the worst one for males.

[Alyakia]

you are asking a welsh guy about laws in an american state

Ostro doesn't identify as male.

i've heard he went through a complete gender abolition phase where he implied/stated the only reason transwomen exist is because they want in on the female privilege but i'm not aware he has actually refused the label of he

[Bearon]

But I love children. D: What should I expect to encounter regarding the perceived perverseness/pedophilia of males when I become an elementary school teacher?

Good to meet another man that wants to teach elementary. You in an Education program yet?

I'm getting my lower division courses out of the way at a Junior college before transferring to an education program at San Marcos.

[Forsher]

Not the point.

That men's right issues existed before the MRM, to elaborate on what I wrote to the functionally identical Ostro post, doesn't actually mean what you think it does. What it means is that there is an independent existence of the two and that they are, in fact, distinct. In other words, what happens in the real world? Well, it is disingenuous to read the MRM into them.

Then don't brush off the MRM as a strictly online movement while you have a different standard for feminism.

Okay, giraffes are now the same as cows.

Feminism and the MRM have a completely different relationship. Online feminism doesn't exist wholly independently or RL expressions. That's critical. You seem to ignore this,.

I am right, you just haven't grasped what I am saying.

It doesn't matter that men are more or less oppressed than women. That's irrelevant. What matters is that they are. Do you see? Not the same idea.

When you want to engage with this topic and your first port of call is, "Men have it so much worse then women, here are x, y and z examples" do you know what happens? Well, firstly, no-one starts talking about solutions. What everyone is interested in is dealing the claim. Now, you'll get lots of people who agree and disagree and they'll all come crawling out of the woodwork (we're assuming, for completeness, that our medium of conversation is online). And tempers will flare because you're often challenging pretty fundamental narratives that people care more about than establishing the correctness of. No-one trying to discuss the solutions, they're just trying to make their point of view known in a race to the bottom. It's like The Four Yorkshiremen sketch but horribly depressing.

So that's problem number one. Problem number two is that it's conceptually wrong. Imagine, for instance, that we're some group and we can spend $100 and we can solve one issue and one issue only. Not realistic but it's an example to help everyone understand. Okay, so... we know that men have it worse. Oh, crap. That didn't help us choose how to allocate our resources. We spent all that effort to get to this place where we can do something and now we've got to spend some time working out what exactly we should try and fix. That is, what does matter is that not being able to vote is a bigger inequality than being called, say, bossy. As you can tell this gets a bit problematic when the issues are not so clear cut, which generally means more complexity.

On the other hand, there's nothing new under the sun.

Men have it worse in some ways. It may well be in more ways than women.
It's not oppression olympics to say it. It's a way of saying that the woman-centric narrative is wrong.

What matters is focusing on issues in a non-gendered way. I don't care for who has it worse. I care that the problems are being unequally addressed to the point that men do have it worse for the most part.

The woman centric narrative is wrong insofar as it ignores issues outside that framework. That need not be pointed out in the context of "X has it worse" which is one reason why pointing out "X has it worse" is bad... it doesn't add anything and as pointed out before, comes with that very real risk.

you are asking a welsh guy about laws in an american state

Ostro doesn't identify as male.

You know what is interesting? Guy isn't necessarily, esp. in contexts of "you guys", male. Probably wasn't used in this sense here, though.

[Ostroeuropa]

Ostro doesn't identify as male.

i've heard he went through a complete gender abolition phase where he implied/stated the only reason transwomen exist is because they want in on the female privilege but i'm not aware he has actually refused the label of he

I don't refuse the label.
I also don't refuse when people call me she.

The only time i'm likely to identify with men is when i'm engaging in defending them. I also tend to slip into "We" and "Our" when doing this for women if I get into it. (I don't do that on these forums much.)

It's more a case of me not caring enough to identify as anything.

You can call me he. You can call me she. I don't care.

I kind of like She because I don't often get called it these days, but it's more a novelty thing.

I go through bursts of feeling what i assume is masculine and feminine depending on my mood and who i'm talking to.

I don't consider myself genderfluid though. I just don't care about it. I don't care enough to figure out what I am. I don't care enough to identify as a man or a woman or whatever. It's irrelevant to me.

[Camicon]

As we see, people talk at cross purposes all the time. In this case I am not. I was trying to point out that not all assessment shouldn't consider behaviour. You said the opposite. That's a flaw in your worldview. It means that your conclusion was more absolute than it should've been. It's on topic, you just didn't read it any other way than what it wasn't saying.

Do you understand the difference between academic and behavioural assessments?

[EDIT] Because I have been exceedingly clear: teachers are letting a male student's behaviour influence assessments of their academic ability more so than they do with female students. Ideally, my behaviour should have no influence on assessments of my academic ability, and my academic ability should have no influence on assessments of my behaviour; but, this being the real world, we have to acknowledge that there is going to be some slippage. The problem isn't so much that there is slippage, but that this slippage is effecting boys more than girls, and it is effecting them in a decidedly negative manner. Understand?

[Valystria]

i've heard he went through a complete gender abolition phase where he implied/stated the only reason transwomen exist is because they want in on the female privilege but i'm not aware he has actually refused the label of he

I don't refuse the label.
I also don't refuse when people call me she.

The only time i'm likely to identify with men is when i'm engaging in defending them. I also tend to slip into "We" and "Our" when doing this for women if I get into it. (I don't do that on these forums much.)

It's more a case of me not caring enough to identify as anything.

You can call me he. You can call me she. I don't care.

I kind of like She because I don't often get called it these days, but it's more a novelty thing.

I go through bursts of feeling what i assume is masculine and feminine depending on my mood and who i'm talking to.

I don't consider myself genderfluid though. I just don't care about it. I don't care enough to figure out what I am. I don't care enough to identify as a man or a woman or whatever. It's irrelevant to me.

She it is.

Ostro doesn't identify as male.

i've heard he went through a complete gender abolition phase where he implied/stated the only reason transwomen exist is because they want in on the female privilege but i'm not aware he has actually refused the label of he

People change their views.

Then don't brush off the MRM as a strictly online movement while you have a different standard for feminism.

Okay, giraffes are now the same as cows.

Feminism and the MRM have a completely different relationship. Online feminism doesn't exist wholly independently or RL expressions. That's critical. You seem to ignore this,.

Men have it worse in some ways. It may well be in more ways than women.
It's not oppression olympics to say it. It's a way of saying that the woman-centric narrative is wrong.

What matters is focusing on issues in a non-gendered way. I don't care for who has it worse. I care that the problems are being unequally addressed to the point that men do have it worse for the most part.

The woman centric narrative is wrong insofar as it ignores issues outside that framework. That need not be pointed out in the context of "X has it worse" which is one reason why pointing out "X has it worse" is bad... it doesn't add anything and as pointed out before, comes with that very real risk.

Ostro doesn't identify as male.

You know what is interesting? Guy isn't necessarily, esp. in contexts of "you guys", male. Probably wasn't used in this sense here, though.

1. Neither does the MRM?

2. It's relevant in the sense that it counters the feminist claim that women have it worse.
The MRM really only exists because the woman-centric narrative left everyone else out.

3. It was but this is a trivial issue.

[Haktiva]

MGTOW Endgame and Apathy by the Psychological Cynic

[Camicon]

Good to meet another man that wants to teach elementary. You in an Education program yet?

I'm getting my lower division courses out of the way at a Junior college before transferring to an education program at San Marcos.

Cool. I'm finishing up a polisci degree right now, and then I've got one year left on my Bach.Ed.

[USS Monitor]

This just popped up in the banner ads on the side of the page, and I thought I'd pass it along in case anyone finds it interesting or useful. I personally have no need for it because it's for men, not ironclads.

I had a thought that maybe you could put together a collection of resources to help men that are personally struggling, sort of like what the trans thread has with resources for trans people. When I skimmed the OP to see if you already had something like that, it looked like the links section was mostly articles and statistics outlining gender disparities. But what if you had one section for info about the issues and another section for help?

[Freemopia]

stop being genderist only caring about mens rights and not human/animal rights.

[Postmodern Nihilist Foundations]

stop being genderist only caring about mens rights and not human/animal rights.

The MRA movement is a reaction to feminism. However, it still segregates the issue from egalitarianism. Personally, I would rather the two ideas were abandoned in favour of some co-operation. Mindless name-calling and finger-poking are the only weapons both sides can use.


As for animal rights, I agree.

As for general human rights, I agree as well. Although I am a nihilist, I still value human life on my own terms.

[Wolfmanne2]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/la ... ts-6734126

Any comment from the Misogynist's Rights Activists?

[Camicon]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/labour-mp-jess-phillips-alerts-6734126

Any comment from the Misogynist's Rights Activists?

Random internet assholes being assholes. How does that warrant insulting the MRA, when there is absolutely no indication that these random internet assholes were in any way affiliated with the MRA? You realize this is the same "all Muslims need to apologize every time some crazy shithead with a suicide vest blows up innocent people", don't you?

You know what's the most disappointing part of that story? That MP Phillips tried to shut down a men's rights discussion. No, that doesn't deserve rape threats, but it certainly deserves condemnation.

[The Huskar Social Union]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/labour-mp-jess-phillips-alerts-6734126

Any comment from the Misogynist's Rights Activists?

Thats fucked up, no one deserves those kind of threats.

And lets not have the sweeping generalizations of an entire group of people.

[Hirota]

stop being genderist only caring about mens rights and not human/animal rights.

Stop being speciest by caring only about animal rights and not caring about plant rights!

Or you know, stop being so daft and incorrectly assuming that because someone that cares about mens rights is incapable of caring about other rights at the same time. Most people can do more than one thing at once after all.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/labour-mp-jess-phillips-alerts-6734126

Obnoxious person gets threats from other obnoxious people. Media plays the outrage card yet again, silly people read only one side of the story.

Any comment from the Misogynist's Rights Activists?

Why are you asking here? This isn't a misogynist rights thread. Maybe you can't read the title.