The NS Mens Rights Thread

[Ardoki]

Both movements, are hateful towards minorities.

I've heard genocidal fantasies, from MRAs. Plus let us not forget the mass killing carried out by an MRA last year.

Women are not a minority. Nor is the entirety of the MRM hostile towards women; more often than not they are hostile towards feminists.

But the MRA movement celebrated and supported the mass murder.

[Valystria]

It is left up to the reader to infer whether Ardoki knows nothing of the Men's Rights Movement, or nothing of Nazism.

Or both.

Both movements, are hateful towards minorities.

I've heard genocidal fantasies, from MRAs. Plus let us not forget the mass killing carried out by an MRA last year.

Provide a source that women are less aggressive than men.

You've said it repeatedly. Now provide the source for it.

[Ostroeuropa]

Shh, you're ruining their attempt to minimize mens treatment by the media and waffle about how women have it so much worse.

sorry i'm too busy writing an article about michelle obama's arms

So you're just going to ignore the link that says 75% of media depictions of men is negative and dehumanizing.

Because actively making people out to be monsters is obviously more trivial than discussing their appearance.

You're also doing absolutely nothing to address the claim, you're just acting as though it's inherently absurd and mocking me for bringing it up.

This is precisely the type of behavior that leads to men being afraid to discuss mens issues. You're a part of the problem.

Unfortunately for you, i've long since ceased to give a fuck about anyones opinion of me.

Except valystrias.

[Forsher]

But it is like being a Nazi, who denies racism.

If you claim to be part of a movement, you shouldn't deny the crimes against humanity that movement espouses.

So all feminists are transphobes?

Hmm. Not sure I buy that.

If you can establish that that is a representative view (which I doubt)...

But the Men's Rights Movement, has the word "man"in it. It exclusively fights to maintain male dominance, and doesn't fight for women's rights.

You're assuming something about the nature of the MRM. The MRM is generally framed in terms of men's issues... some would say that it uses a men as victims narrative.

If you make bad assumptions about the motives of people, you are going to misrepresent those people. Which is very bad.

Why, why dose men's and women's right movement's even exist.

Men always had their rights, women got their rights a hundred years ago.

Rightsis... complex.

What I do outside of a test should have no bearing when my teacher is grading that test, because that mark is supposed to be an assessment of my understanding of course material. End of. That is not how it currently works for boys with female teachers.

You're again being too absolutist and imposing a dimension on my post that didn't exist to boot. Well, it's probably because of the latter that you missed the point I was making but still.

Sure.

Back when women couldn't vote, while men could. Women certainly had the advantage ...

You know, I think I've discovered the problem with radfems especially, but it's a problem that seems to infect a lot of feminists (clearly not all - nationstates does have some fine examples of good feminists who do not seem to have this problem).

It's that they are stuck in the past - how far in the past varies - and can't look at current trends or data which shows that many of the problems have corrected or reversed. Anytime you say "well, with the way the laws are now regarding men and women, X, Y, Z, and men are disadvantaged" and the counter is "well, i'm sure 100 years ago women were so empowered when they didn't have the right to vote!!!" or "look at this 30 year old data using sexist definitions, which shows women are disadvantaged!!!"

They can't understand that progression has happened. Are men and women equal?

No.

But the inequalities are a lot more complicated than they used to be.

It's a two edged blade. If you don't acknowledge them you get, say, Ardoki. If you do acknowledge that things are more complex than before you end up making nuanced and specific arguments which engenders an enormous, "OMG you think this is importan?!, look! Saudi Arabia!".

It wouldn't be a stretch to say the tables have turned as it's now men's rights that are behind.

Don't. This is classic Oppression Olympics. It's not useful.

That isn't true. More women go to university than men do.

That's true, yes. That doesn't necessarily mean that most people with degrees today are female, although I believe this is the case.

I've repeatedly said i'm on the radical end of the MRM.

The point was nothing to do with radicalisation. People like you, in the context of that post, are people who post online anonymously.

Mens Rights Issues existed before the MRM did.

Pretty much the point, yes.

In addition, institutionalized feminism is clearly radfem and misandrist. We have a multitude of examples.

Again, not really relevant.

[Ostroeuropa]

Women are not a minority. Nor is the entirety of the MRM hostile towards women; more often than not they are hostile towards feminists.

But the MRA movement celebrated and supported the mass murder.

Source?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

That was just one of the things I pounced on him on, and the least relevant to my concerns.

Well, I mean he did look like a monkey.

To be honest, people didn't criticize him that much during his first four years and reelection (other than about his appearance) because of the War on Terrorism and 9/11.

It was one of the few periods in which a majority of Americans didn't dare question the president's office, but by the end years of his second term there were a lot of anti-Iraq-war protests and whatnot and people criticized Bush more harshly than anyone has ever criticized Obama for pulling out and the other shenanigans reported by his opponents once the fear of 9/11 wore out and people became disillusioned that the War on Terror sent us to Iraq which was a disaster, which became easier to pounce on and discredit.

But we digress.

[Ardoki]

DELETED

[The United Colonies of Earth]

I would have thought an upswing in homophobia and old macho attitudes.
Did feminists actively push for them?
I'll try to keep my mind open.

No, but they did push for the demonization of men in the media. Which as you point out, leads to this bullshit.

*sighs and shakes head* Why the fuck did they think that would bring anything good? I thought the movement was trying to make women lose the Oppression Olympics, not give dudes the gold medal, which they just fucking did. Shite.

[Alyakia]

sorry i'm too busy writing an article about michelle obama's arms

So you're just going to ignore the link that says 75% of media depictions of men is negative and dehumanizing.

Because actively making people out to be monsters is obviously more trivial than discussing their appearance.

You're also doing absolutely nothing to address the claim, you're just acting as though it's inherently absurd and mocking me for bringing it up.

This is precisely the type of behavior that leads to men being afraid to discuss mens issues. You're a part of the problem.

Unfortunately for you, i've long since ceased to give a fuck about anyones opinion of me.

Except valystrias.

i was thinking a different thing when you said media so i never covered it, yes.

blah blah blah rest of the post is the usual stuff

[Galloism]

It is left up to the reader to infer whether Ardoki knows nothing of the Men's Rights Movement, or nothing of Nazism.

Or both.

Both movements, are hateful towards minorities.

I've heard genocidal fantasies, from MRAs. Plus let us not forget the mass killing carried out by an MRA last year.

Ok, even *I* know this one, we've hashed it out on NSG so many times.

Elliot Rodger was not an MRA, did not identify with MRAs, did not do so with the blessing or using the support or language of MRAs. He DID visit an anti-PUA website a few times, but nobody seems to know the difference between PUAs, anti-PUAs, or MRAs.

Which is akin to saying that stalinism and naziism are basically the same thing.

[Ardoki]

Both movements, are hateful towards minorities.

I've heard genocidal fantasies, from MRAs. Plus let us not forget the mass killing carried out by an MRA last year.

Ok, even *I* know this one, we've hashed it out on NSG so many times.

Elliot Rodger was not an MRA, did not identify with MRAs, did not do so with the blessing or using the support or language of MRAs. He DID visit an anti-PUA website a few times, but nobody seems to know the difference between PUAs, anti-PUAs, or MRAs.

Which is akin to saying that stalinism and naziism are basically the same thing.

Then what is the difference?

[Ostroeuropa]

So you're just going to ignore the link that says 75% of media depictions of men is negative and dehumanizing.

Because actively making people out to be monsters is obviously more trivial than discussing their appearance.

You're also doing absolutely nothing to address the claim, you're just acting as though it's inherently absurd and mocking me for bringing it up.

This is precisely the type of behavior that leads to men being afraid to discuss mens issues. You're a part of the problem.

Unfortunately for you, i've long since ceased to give a fuck about anyones opinion of me.

Except valystrias.

i was thinking a different thing when you said media so i never covered it, yes.

blah blah blah rest of the post is the usual stuff

Ok sure, don't bother considering that maybe you just engaged in precisely the behavior that prevents mens issues being taken seriously.
Never mind, it's typical of me to say it, so obviously you don't need to bother with anything like self-reflection or anything.

[Galloism]

Women are not a minority. Nor is the entirety of the MRM hostile towards women; more often than not they are hostile towards feminists.

But the MRA movement celebrated and supported the mass murder.

Really? Proof?

[Valystria]

It wouldn't be a stretch to say the tables have turned as it's now men's rights that are behind.

Don't. This is classic Oppression Olympics. It's not useful.

Okay.

You know what. You're absolutely right.

You've convinced me that it's not at all fair to say men's rights are worse than women's rights in a lot of areas such as rape, domestic violence, paternity leave, conscription, genital mutilation, divorce, custody, homelessness, extremely disproportionate sentencing in the justice system, etc etc.

You're right. Let's not say men's rights are behind women's rights. Clearly that's not the case despite all evidence to the contrary.

[Galloism]

Ok, even *I* know this one, we've hashed it out on NSG so many times.

Elliot Rodger was not an MRA, did not identify with MRAs, did not do so with the blessing or using the support or language of MRAs. He DID visit an anti-PUA website a few times, but nobody seems to know the difference between PUAs, anti-PUAs, or MRAs.

Which is akin to saying that stalinism and naziism are basically the same thing.

Then what is the difference?

A pick up artist is not a philosophical ideology - it's a forum where people discuss how to "pick up women" and what techniques work and so forth. I say it's largely bullshit, but it is a real thing people talk about. it's not in any way associated with MRAs.

Anti-PUA is exactly what the name implies. They hate pick-up artists. They're also not associated with MRAs. He was a member of an anti-pua forum and a bodybuilding forum.

MRAs are a philosophical approach that sexism hurts men, and that we should take steps to correct the way sexism hurts men.

[Alyakia]

i was thinking a different thing when you said media so i never covered it, yes.

blah blah blah rest of the post is the usual stuff

Ok sure, don't bother considering that maybe you just engaged in precisely the behavior that prevents mens issues being taken seriously.
Never mind, it's typical of me to say it, so obviously you don't need to bother with anything like self-reflection or anything.

considered, rejected.

[Ostroeuropa]

It is left up to the reader to infer whether Ardoki knows nothing of the Men's Rights Movement, or nothing of Nazism.

Or both.

Both movements, are hateful towards minorities.

I've heard genocidal fantasies, from MRAs. Plus let us not forget the mass killing carried out by an MRA last year.

That's a lie. Elliot Rodgers was not an MRA. He disliked us. As i've previously pointed out, this lie that feminists have spread is actively harmful.

We are PRECISELY the people who could have prevented this tradgedy by convincing Rodgers to decouple his self-esteem from womens approval.

I think it's clear you're lying frequently here. If you spoke to MRAs as you claim you did, you would already know these things.

[Valystria]

It is left up to the reader to infer whether Ardoki knows nothing of the Men's Rights Movement, or nothing of Nazism.

Or both.

Both movements, are hateful towards minorities.

I've heard genocidal fantasies, from MRAs. Plus let us not forget the mass killing carried out by an MRA last year.

Why do you continue to lie?

[Camicon]

What I do outside of a test should have no bearing when my teacher is grading that test, because that mark is supposed to be an assessment of my understanding of course material. End of. That is not how it currently works for boys with female teachers.

You're again being too absolutist and imposing a dimension on my post that didn't exist to boot. Well, it's probably because of the latter that you missed the point I was making but still.

Boys are receiving lower grades than girls, on assessments meant to test their subject knowledge, for things unrelated to their subject knowledge. If you're not able to stay on topic, that's not my problem.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Don't. This is classic Oppression Olympics. It's not useful.

Okay.

You know what. You're absolutely right.

You've convinced me that it's not at all fair to say men's rights are worse than women's rights in a lot of areas such as rape, domestic violence, paternity leave, conscription, genital mutilation, divorce, custody, homelessness, extremely disproportionate sentencing in the justice system, etc etc.

You're right. Let's not say men's rights are behind women's rights. Clearly that's not the case despite all evidence to the contrary.

The thing is is that it is counterproductive to say male rape victims have it worse when rape is in and of itself a God damn major problem that should be solved, no matter who the perpetrator is.

The issue about rape being worse is the perception of society towards men being raped over that of women being raped, and that's something that needs to be fixed because de jure men have the right to report their abuser in several countries, but they don't because of the social perceptions of men in society so men, de facto, don't have this right respected. And it is a problem.

[Galloism]

Okay.

You know what. You're absolutely right.

You've convinced me that it's not at all fair to say men's rights are worse than women's rights in a lot of areas such as rape, domestic violence, paternity leave, conscription, genital mutilation, divorce, custody, homelessness, extremely disproportionate sentencing in the justice system, etc etc.

You're right. Let's not say men's rights are behind women's rights. Clearly that's not the case despite all evidence to the contrary.

The thing is is that it is counterproductive to say male rape victims have it worse when rape is in and of itself a God damn major problem that should be solved, no matter who the perpetrator is.

The issue about rape being worse is the perception of society towards men being raped over that of women being raped, and that's something that needs to be fixed because de jure men have the right to report their abuser in several countries, but they don't because of the social perceptions of men in society.

And even when they do, authorities frequently laugh or refuse to file the report.

[Ardoki]

Both movements, are hateful towards minorities.

I've heard genocidal fantasies, from MRAs. Plus let us not forget the mass killing carried out by an MRA last year.

That's a lie. Elliot Rodgers was not an MRA. He disliked us. As i've previously pointed out, this lie that feminists have spread is actively harmful.

We are PRECISELY the people who could have prevented this tradgedy by convincing Rodgers to decouple his self-esteem from womens approval.

I think it's clear you're lying frequently here. If you spoke to MRAs as you claim you did, you would already know these things.

MRA I've spoken with, wanted to exterminate women. Eliot Rodger, also hated women and wanted to kill him.
Due to my experioenced of the MRA movement, I naturally assumed he was part of it.

Just because you are not as radical as some MRAs, doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Ostroeuropa]

Ok, even *I* know this one, we've hashed it out on NSG so many times.

Elliot Rodger was not an MRA, did not identify with MRAs, did not do so with the blessing or using the support or language of MRAs. He DID visit an anti-PUA website a few times, but nobody seems to know the difference between PUAs, anti-PUAs, or MRAs.

Which is akin to saying that stalinism and naziism are basically the same thing.

Then what is the difference?

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p24779606

There you go.

[Galloism]

That's a lie. Elliot Rodgers was not an MRA. He disliked us. As i've previously pointed out, this lie that feminists have spread is actively harmful.

We are PRECISELY the people who could have prevented this tradgedy by convincing Rodgers to decouple his self-esteem from womens approval.

I think it's clear you're lying frequently here. If you spoke to MRAs as you claim you did, you would already know these things.

MRA I've spoken with, wanted to exterminate women.

You know, talking to imaginary people is generally a sign of a problem that requires the help of a medical professional.

Eliot Rodger, also hated women and wanted to kill him.
Due to my experioenced of the MRA movement, I naturally assumed he was part of it.

Just because you are not as radical as some MRAs, doesn't mean they don't exist.

You know what they say about assuming.

Ok, for the shit of it, I want you to find any post on any MRA site, reddit, post, anywhere where they call for the extermination of women. Please do. I need a laugh.

[Ostroeuropa]

That's a lie. Elliot Rodgers was not an MRA. He disliked us. As i've previously pointed out, this lie that feminists have spread is actively harmful.

We are PRECISELY the people who could have prevented this tradgedy by convincing Rodgers to decouple his self-esteem from womens approval.

I think it's clear you're lying frequently here. If you spoke to MRAs as you claim you did, you would already know these things.

MRA I've spoken with, wanted to exterminate women. Eliot Rodger, also hated women and wanted to kill him.
Due to my experioenced of the MRA movement, I naturally assumed he was part of it.

Just because you are not as radical as some MRAs, doesn't mean they don't exist.

It's clear you're just making shit up.
I am, in fact, on the radical end of the MRM spectrum.

No MRA has ever been proven to be involved in a mass shooting.

You've shown you don't know the difference between the different manospheric movements, so why should we believe you talked to an MRA and not something else?