The limits of choice

[Dumb Ideologies]

Her sig on the other hand for the longest time mentioned holding Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist views. And then you'd run into the gatekeeper role for both cisgender and transgender women seeking breast implants. Gatekeepers? Some of them will demand years of therapy just to approve or deny treatment.

I saw her acknowledge that she knew relatively little about trans* issues, and the designation has been removed. So perhaps she's abandoned TERF after learning more about those issues, and now is only a SWERF? Mind you, I'm against SWERF as much as I am TERF, but we're concerned here with the TERF. Maybe she's changed her tune and would now object to gatekeeping? I can understand that there's plenty of cause for sincere doubt, but maybe? Possibly?

No, I'm pretty sure I can see it right there in her signature...

[Mysterious Stranger 2]

Yep, consistent with your usual habit of advocating supposedly "feminist" ideologies that are plainly adversarial to women.

[The Serbian Empire]

Yep, consistent with your usual habit of advocating supposedly "feminist" ideologies that are plainly adversarial to women.

That's why radical feminists are viewed as radicals.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Yep, consistent with your usual habit of advocating supposedly "feminist" ideologies that are plainly adversarial to women.

For some it can be very hard to get used to driving without shtick.

[Celseon]

No, I'm pretty sure I can see it right there in her signature...

That's my fault for not opening the spoilers. It says it plainly: "moderately TERF".

[Dumb Ideologies]

No, I'm pretty sure I can see it right there in her signature...

That's my fault for not opening the spoilers. It says it plainly: "moderately TERF".

It's not too bad a character trait to sometimes choose hope when there's only nope

[Celseon]

Oi, oi. You campaign and try to change society's attitudes through progressive education, not target vulnerable people and try to shame them scared of doing what they want to do.

Or worse yet, punish their exercise of ownership of their own bodies in a way you consider to be inherently unhealthy. You're right on point.

[Yedmnrutika Gavr]

beauty is perspective and as a whole society should stop unquestionably accepting one commercial standard of beauty. i think any cosmetic surgery is a harsh step to take to be happy but many see it as necessary despite possible infection, deformity or even other psychological complications. letting others decide for them about their own body including the male-dominated society is a disgrace to their own sovereignty. the dove campaign for love your skin seems to be having a very positive impact though and maybe thats a good starting point for a similar campaign on love your breasts.

[Donut section]

The limits of choice is when it directly or foreseeably causes physical harm to someone else.

We are not the keepers of others emotional states.

[Chessmistress]

No, I'm pretty sure I can see it right there in her signature...

That's my fault for not opening the spoilers. It says it plainly: "moderately TERF".

My position about transexualism is always the same: FREE surgeries, as long these surgeries are FULL transitions (otherwise I perceive it like a scam, sorry), coupled with massive fight to erase the whole concept of gender: by doing so, a day they'll no need surgeries anymore.
How many "inclusive" feminists are advocating for free surgeries for transpeople?

Above all I'm extremely SWERF.
Next Autumn in France there will be the introduction of Nordic Model, criminalisation of purchasers of sex. Another victory.

[Chessmistress]

beauty is perspective and as a whole society should stop unquestionably accepting one commercial standard of beauty. i think any cosmetic surgery is a harsh step to take to be happy but many see it as necessary despite possible infection, deformity or even other psychological complications. letting others decide for them about their own body including the male-dominated society is a disgrace to their own sovereignty. the dove campaign for love your skin seems to be having a very positive impact though and maybe thats a good starting point for a similar campaign on love your breasts.

It affects even males, you know?
It's called "steroids", and in Sweden is already forbidden, not just only for athletes.
Patriarchy hurts even males.
But it hurts them much less: how many males use steroids compared to women performing surgeries in order to have inflated lips and breast implants?

[Shamhnan Insir]

Next Autumn in France there will be the introduction of Nordic Model, criminalisation of purchasers of sex. Another victory.

As noble as this may be I unfortunately don't see there ever being an end to prostitution. People trafficking will get worse, not better.

[Eol Sha]

beauty is perspective and as a whole society should stop unquestionably accepting one commercial standard of beauty. i think any cosmetic surgery is a harsh step to take to be happy but many see it as necessary despite possible infection, deformity or even other psychological complications. letting others decide for them about their own body including the male-dominated society is a disgrace to their own sovereignty. the dove campaign for love your skin seems to be having a very positive impact though and maybe thats a good starting point for a similar campaign on love your breasts.

It affects even males, you know?
It's called "steroids", and in Sweden is already forbidden, not just only for athletes.
Patriarchy hurts even males.
But it hurts them much less: how many males use steroids compared to women performing surgeries in order to have inflated lips and breast implants?

This is just a wild-ass guess, but probably way more. Steroids, I'd bet, are a ways cheaper and more accessible than plastic surgery.

[Yedmnrutika Gavr]

beauty is perspective and as a whole society should stop unquestionably accepting one commercial standard of beauty. i think any cosmetic surgery is a harsh step to take to be happy but many see it as necessary despite possible infection, deformity or even other psychological complications. letting others decide for them about their own body including the male-dominated society is a disgrace to their own sovereignty. the dove campaign for love your skin seems to be having a very positive impact though and maybe thats a good starting point for a similar campaign on love your breasts.

It affects even males, you know?
It's called "steroids", and in Sweden is already forbidden, not just only for athletes.
Patriarchy hurts even males.
But it hurts them much less: how many males use steroids compared to women performing surgeries in order to have inflated lips and breast implants?

yes of course im not saying it doesnt affect males just that was the thought that came to my mind about breast implants. it undoubtedly affects more females than males because its a male dominated society after all.

EDIT; i grew up in a matriarchal household so im sure my views are a bit skewed by this

[Chessmistress]

It affects even males, you know?
It's called "steroids", and in Sweden is already forbidden, not just only for athletes.
Patriarchy hurts even males.
But it hurts them much less: how many males use steroids compared to women performing surgeries in order to have inflated lips and breast implants?

This is just a wild-ass guess, but probably way more. Steroids, I'd bet, are a ways cheaper and more accessible than plastic surgery.

I don't know, but I know that steroids are very unhealthy, too.

[Cymrea]

In my opinion, they are. It's an opinion, not a fact. You don't get to tell me what my opinion is.

Since we're talking about breast implants being "gross", I'll throw my hat in the ring. I don't think they're gross, but having had sex with a woman who had breast implants a number of years ago, it made her breasts feel weird.

like, distractingly weird.

So, I generally have a preference personally against breast implants. However, that's a woman's personal choice, and I see no reason to restrict it based on my feelings.

Fake boobs taste funny.

[Dumb Ideologies]

That's my fault for not opening the spoilers. It says it plainly: "moderately TERF".

My position about transexualism is always the same: FREE surgeries, as long these surgeries are FULL transitions (otherwise I perceive it like a scam, sorry), coupled with massive fight to erase the whole concept of gender: by doing so, a day they'll no need surgeries anymore.
How many "inclusive" feminists are advocating for free surgeries for transpeople?

Ruh-roh. Someone's still not getting the distinction between gender roles and gender identity.

Please also enlighten us on the nature of this "scam" in which those who do not wish to pursue full transition are engaging. And on why, if you're so "accepting", you feel that transwomen can be neither "true" feminists, nor be allowed to attend "women-only" events.

[Trumptasric America]

So you can't liberate people by limiting choice. Good that we have established that. Now if only you commies could see that its the same thing with the minimum wage: let workers think for themselves. Nobody is making them take jobs that would pay below the current minimal wage. If that's what they want then the state has no business forcing them to be unemployed. True liberation would be the elimination of minimum wage laws.

[Neutraligon]

You are aware that some breast surgery is medically helpful? For instance there are women with very different size breasts. Getting a bra can be highly difficult. There are others who's breasts are too large, to the point it causes harm.

[Non Conformists]

Fake boobs taste funny.

Try them with some fava beans and a nice chianti.

[Trotskylvania]

That's my fault for not opening the spoilers. It says it plainly: "moderately TERF".

My position about transexualism is always the same: FREE surgeries, as long these surgeries are FULL transitions (otherwise I perceive it like a scam, sorry), coupled with massive fight to erase the whole concept of gender: by doing so, a day they'll no need surgeries anymore.
How many "inclusive" feminists are advocating for free surgeries for transpeople?

Above all I'm extremely SWERF.
Next Autumn in France there will be the introduction of Nordic Model, criminalisation of purchasers of sex. Another victory.

You know, people like you make it tempting to go on HRT and forgoe the sex-reassignment surgery.

If someone wants to have a female body and keep male genitalia, that's frankly none of your business.

[Adnan Nawaz And Bureacrats Elsewhere]

You're a gender fascist.

You are such a gender fascist that it's unbelievable. The *limits* of choice? This is not about limits. It's about having no choice at all. What, so women can't get breast implants now? What the fuck CAN they do in your proposed system? Be militant, dick-mutilating sheep under the command of a matriarchal queendom?

[Eol Sha]

You're a gender fascist.

You are such a gender fascist that it's unbelievable. The *limits* of choice? This is not about limits. It's about having no choice at all. What, so women can't get breast implants now? What the fuck CAN they do in your proposed system? Be militant, dick-mutilating sheep under the command of a matriarchal queendom?

To be fair, Chess wants awareness campaigns. Not bans.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

ah, what a gem. OP, you've really outdone yourself

[Chessmistress]

You're a gender fascist.

You are such a gender fascist that it's unbelievable. The *limits* of choice? This is not about limits. It's about having no choice at all. What, so women can't get breast implants now? What the fuck CAN they do in your proposed system? Be militant, dick-mutilating sheep under the command of a matriarchal queendom?

To be fair, Chess wants awareness campaigns. Not bans.

Exactly.
And more taxation on such unhealthy things, mainly meant to fund awareness campaigns.
Thank you for your fairness.