Ireland rejects extradition to US as prison inhumane

[Conserative Morality]

Releasing murderers after a mere fifteen years, or less, is not a fix.

If they've been rehabilitated? I don't see why not. 15 is the minimum sentence for murder in the UK, not an average or a maximum.

[Jennifer Lawrence is Beautiful]

Releasing murderers after a mere fifteen years, or less, is not a fix.

Rehabilitation is though.

Rehabilitation of murderers? I would not want to take any chances with that. Perhaps you are comfortable sacrificing innocent persons for the sake of your liberal ideals. I am not comfortable with that.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Rehabilitation is though.

Rehabilitation of murderers? I would not want to take any chances with that. Perhaps you are comfortable sacrificing innocent persons for the sake of your liberal ideals. I am not comfortable with that.

It's worked pretty well in Norway. Or was it Denmark?

[Vassenor]

Rehabilitation is though.

Rehabilitation of murderers? I would not want to take any chances with that. Perhaps you are comfortable sacrificing innocent persons for the sake of your liberal ideals. I am not comfortable with that.

Rehabilitation has been proven to reduce recidivism.

[Vassenor]

Rehabilitation of murderers? I would not want to take any chances with that. Perhaps you are comfortable sacrificing innocent persons for the sake of your liberal ideals. I am not comfortable with that.

It's worked pretty well in Norway. Or was it Denmark?

Norway actually treats their prisoners like human beings, and that brought the recidivism rates down.

[Jennifer Lawrence is Beautiful]

Rehabilitation of murderers? I would not want to take any chances with that. Perhaps you are comfortable sacrificing innocent persons for the sake of your liberal ideals. I am not comfortable with that.

It's worked pretty well in Norway. Or was it Denmark?

You are comparing Norway and Denmark with the United States? Seriously? I suggest that you move to St. Louis, Missouri, or Chicago, Illinois. Live there for at least one year and than think about what you have written.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

It's worked pretty well in Norway. Or was it Denmark?

You are comparing Norway and Denmark with the United States?

Yeah, why?

Seriously? I suggest that you move to St. Louis, Missouri, or Chicago, Illinois. Live there for at least one year and than think about what you have written.

Why?

[Kazarogkai]

That does not mean that they should be treated as anything but criminals.

Yes, and even criminals have rights. An idea enshrined in our Constitution.

They European way, such as it is, is too "enlightened." There must be some suffering. Otherwise what would be the point of punishment?

Justice comes to mind. The point of punishment is primarily the prevention of future offenses, followed by the rehabilitation of the criminal so that they may either return to normal society or operate in such a way that allows them to accept it.[/quote]

In some systems yes, but that is not the case in the US system. The entire point of the US system is more or less retribution, to punish the offender for a wrong that they committed upon the victim and in general "get back at them". Tit for tat and all that jazz.

Personally I prefer a more or less restorative view of justice. I believe the justice system should focuses on repairing the harm that has been caused and restoring to the victim what was lost, say someone had their money stolen so in this case the objective will be to get their money back, and that the cost of this ultimately must lie on the offender rather than society.

[The Serbian Empire]

Those are fighting words for the US superpower machine who needs another war to justify that bloated military R&D budget.

Shit, another war? We're still tired after the last. We've a headache, etc etc.

We're always engaged in some conflict or another, and of all our military expenditures, R&D is probably one of the more beneficial ones.

Got to justify all those government contracts to Raytheon.

[Scyobayrynn]

About three million or so disaffected inner-city American urbanites should be deported to Ireland....within a matter of months...the Irish will rethink their views on capital punishment and "inhumane" treatment of convicted criminals. This is my unshakeable belief!

In a matter of months Ireland will have 3 million satisfied mannered, American ex-pats happy to be some place a bit more civilized.
That's my unshakable belief.

[Jennifer Lawrence is Beautiful]

You are comparing Norway and Denmark with the United States?

Yeah, why?

Seriously? I suggest that you move to St. Louis, Missouri, or Chicago, Illinois. Live there for at least one year and than think about what you have written.

Why?

Why? Seriously? You have to ask this question? Do you regularly follow news programmes that cover crime in the United States of America? Do you actually believe that solutions to criminal behaviour that apply to Norway and Denmark could apply equally in the United States? Would the American people allow murderers to be released after ten or fifteen years and not, perhaps be slightly upset by this? If it were your daughter who were raped and murdered...would you accept her murderer being released from prison simply because a board of psychiatrists and social-workers declared him to be "rehabilitated?" This is highly doubtful. I feel as if I am communicating with idealistic secondary school students herein. It is quite frustrating.

[Vassenor]

Do you regularly follow news programmes that cover crime in the United States of America?

Yes, and none of what I have seen from outlets without a political point to spin matches up with what you're peddling.

Do you actually believe that solutions to criminal behaviour that apply to Norway and Denmark could apply equally in the United States?

Why do believe they won't?

[Jennifer Lawrence is Beautiful]

Do you regularly follow news programmes that cover crime in the United States of America?

Yes, and none of what I have seen from outlets without a political point to spin matches up with what you're peddling.

Do you actually believe that solutions to criminal behaviour that apply to Norway and Denmark could apply equally in the United States?

Why do believe they won't?

Because Norway and Denmark do not have thousands of violent illegal aliens gang members from Latin America. Norway and Denmark do not have violent street gangs whose membership numbers in the hundreds of thousands. Hardened criminals cannot be rehabilitated. How can you not possibly understand this? Are you living in a fantasy world? The U.S. attempted the rehabilitation route from the 1950s through the 1970s. Do you know what happened? The crime rate rose. Voters were angered. Laws were changed.

[Vassenor]

Because Norway and Denmark do not have thousands of violent illegal aliens gang members from Latin America. Norway and Denmark do not have violent street gangs whose membership numbers in the hundreds of thousands. Hardened criminals cannot be rehabilitated. How can you not possibly understand this? Are you living in a fantasy world? The U.S. attempted the rehabilitation route from the 1950s through the 1970s. Do you know what happened? The crime rate rose. Voters were angered. Laws were changed.

So it's all the immigrants' fault that crime exists?

[Jennifer Lawrence is Beautiful]

Because Norway and Denmark do not have thousands of violent illegal aliens gang members from Latin America. Norway and Denmark do not have violent street gangs whose membership numbers in the hundreds of thousands. Hardened criminals cannot be rehabilitated. How can you not possibly understand this? Are you living in a fantasy world? The U.S. attempted the rehabilitation route from the 1950s through the 1970s. Do you know what happened? The crime rate rose. Voters were angered. Laws were changed.

So it's all the immigrants' fault that crime exists?

Whatever the fault is...it exists and believe me....rehabilitation is not going to be at all effective with Mexican narco-gang members. These people murder entire families. Do you actually imagine, in your most ridiculous fantasies, that such persons can be rehabilitated? If so, please explain to me what drugs you are using, I should like to purchase some.

[Vassenor]

So it's all the immigrants' fault that crime exists?

Whatever the fault is...it exists and believe me....rehabilitation is not going to be at all effective with Mexican narco-gang members. These people murder entire families. Do you actually imagine, in your most ridiculous fantasies, that such persons can be rehabilitated? If so, please explain to me what drugs you are using, I should like to purchase some.

I'm not on drugs. And I also don't make a habit of writing off human beings based purely on their nationality or the colour of their skin purely because someone on the news told me that all people of that nationality or ethnicity are evil.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Yeah, why?

Why?

Why? Seriously? You have to ask this question? Do you regularly follow news programmes that cover crime in the United States of America? Do you actually believe that solutions to criminal behaviour that apply to Norway and Denmark could apply equally in the United States?

Maybe we shouldn't let them become hardened in the first place?

If it were your daughter who were raped and murdered...would you accept her murderer being released from prison simply because a board of psychiatrists and social-workers declared him to be "rehabilitated?" This is highly doubtful.

Joke's on you, I don't have a daughter.

I feel as if I am communicating with idealistic secondary school students herein. It is quite frustrating.

What are you then, a Sociologist with a PhD?

Also, NS has a lot of teenagers. Get over it.

[Farnhamia]

So it's all the immigrants' fault that crime exists?

Whatever the fault is...it exists and believe me....rehabilitation is not going to be at all effective with Mexican narco-gang members. These people murder entire families. Do you actually imagine, in your most ridiculous fantasies, that such persons can be rehabilitated? If so, please explain to me what drugs you are using, I should like to purchase some.

Allow me to give you some advice, as a Moderator here. You should ease off on the snarky tone of your posts. I've warned you already for your remark wishing that progressives who live on the coasts might drown. Here you seem to imply that all immigrants from Mexico are murderous narco-gang members and that the person you're talking with, Vassenor, is on drugs. Go read the Rules, they're posted right at the top of this forum and be a bit more civil in your posts.

[Jennifer Lawrence is Beautiful]

Whatever the fault is...it exists and believe me....rehabilitation is not going to be at all effective with Mexican narco-gang members. These people murder entire families. Do you actually imagine, in your most ridiculous fantasies, that such persons can be rehabilitated? If so, please explain to me what drugs you are using, I should like to purchase some.

I'm not on drugs. And I also don't make a habit of writing off human beings based purely on their nationality or the colour of their skin purely because someone on the news told me that all people of that nationality or ethnicity are evil.

Well, Vass. I live in the real world. In the real world, violent street gangs slaughter people. In the real world, biker gangs push methamphetamines. In the real world, terrorists blow up runners in marathons. In the real world gangsters force girls into prostitution. In the real world, some individuals should not be permitted to exist among the decent people. I live in the real world. I know seven people who have been murdered in my lifetime. Seven! Rehabilitation is a fantasy. It is incompatible with reality. Deep down, you all know this.

[Napkiraly]

I'm not on drugs. And I also don't make a habit of writing off human beings based purely on their nationality or the colour of their skin purely because someone on the news told me that all people of that nationality or ethnicity are evil.

Well, Vass. I live in the real world. In the real world, violent street gangs slaughter people. In the real world, biker gangs push methamphetamines. In the real world, terrorists blow up runners in marathons. In the real world gangsters force girls into prostitution. In the real world, some individuals should not be permitted to exist among the decent people. I live in the real world. I know seven people who have been murdered in my lifetime. Seven! Rehabilitation is a fantasy. It is incompatible with reality. Deep down, you all know this.

That's why other countries that have a more rehabilitative approach see recidivism reduced right?

[Autonomous Titoists]

I'm not on drugs. And I also don't make a habit of writing off human beings based purely on their nationality or the colour of their skin purely because someone on the news told me that all people of that nationality or ethnicity are evil.

Well, Vass. I live in the real world. In the real world, violent street gangs slaughter people. In the real world, biker gangs push methamphetamines. In the real world, terrorists blow up runners in marathons. In the real world gangsters force girls into prostitution. In the real world, some individuals should not be permitted to exist among the decent people. I live in the real world. I know seven people who have been murdered in my lifetime. Seven! Rehabilitation is a fantasy. It is incompatible with reality. Deep down, you all know this.

SO these certain individuals you suggest we round them up and leave them in boxes for their existence. I think it would be easier to kill them. Yeah I see, we could put them in camps and tell them it's for their own good and then we can gas the-...wait. Does this sound familiar to anyone?

[Ifreann]

Rehabilitation is though.

Rehabilitation of murderers? I would not want to take any chances with that. Perhaps you are comfortable sacrificing innocent persons for the sake of your liberal ideals. I am not comfortable with that.

You want to deport three million people in an effort to convince Ireland to reinstitute the death penalty.

[Autonomous Titoists]

Rehabilitation of murderers? I would not want to take any chances with that. Perhaps you are comfortable sacrificing innocent persons for the sake of your liberal ideals. I am not comfortable with that.

You want to deport three million people in an effort to convince Ireland to reinstitute the death penalty.

Logic!

[Scyobayrynn]

Rehabilitation is though.

Rehabilitation of murderers? I would not want to take any chances with that. Perhaps you are comfortable sacrificing innocent persons for the sake of your liberal ideals. I am not comfortable with that.

You realize murderers in the US regularly get under 10 years, but with no attemp to rehabilitate.

[Vassenor]

Rehabilitation of murderers? I would not want to take any chances with that. Perhaps you are comfortable sacrificing innocent persons for the sake of your liberal ideals. I am not comfortable with that.

You want to deport three million people in an effort to convince Ireland to reinstitute the death penalty.

Which they can't do anyway because they're an EU member state.