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Man has consensual sex with '17' year old, now a crime

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Man has consensual sex with '17' year old, now a crime

Postby United States of Conner » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:48 am

Came across this today, was surprised we didn't have a thread on it. I guess I'll take ownership or something.
This 19-Year-Old Will Spend the Next 25 Years as a Registered Sex Offender - ABC News
When Les and Amanda Anderson went to pick up their son from a county jail in St. Joseph, Michigan, it was the first time they had seen him in two and half months.

“I was thinking just coming up here it’s like he shouldn’t be here,” Les Anderson said. “This, you know, it shouldn’t be happening.”

Since his release last month, their son Zach Anderson’s freedom has been severely restricted because at just 19 years old, Zach is a convicted sex offender.

Zach was arrested last winter after having sex with a girl he met on the dating app “Hot or Not,” who claimed she was 17. But she admitted to police that was a lie. She was really 14.

If he had known she was so young, Zach said, he never would have met her.

“I wouldn't even have gone to her house, like I literally wouldn't have gone to her house at all,” he said.

As a convicted sex offender, the terms of Zach’s probation are incredibly strict. For the next five years, he is forbidden from owning a smart phone or using the Internet. He is not allowed to talk to anyone under age 17, other than immediate family. He is banned from going to any establishment that serves alcohol and he has to be home before 8 p.m. every night.

“They make me out to be a monster,” Zach said. “I can't even look at life regularly.”

His parents say his punishment is cruel and unusual, and they are waging a very public fight, even setting up a Facebook page, hoping to rally support for their son.

Zach graduated high school just last year. Like many teens, he turned to his smart phone to find a date one night. He says he was on the dating app “Hot or Not” for about a week when he started talking to the 14-year-old.

“[She] was actually the first person I had met up with or anything from that,” Zach said. “I had asked her when we were messaging. I said, ‘How old are you?’ And then she had told me 17… I just got out of high school. So it's two years difference. I didn't think that was a big deal or anything.”

The then-14-year-old girl falsely registered on the “adults” section of the dating app. Zach said after they connected, they flirted through text messages and arranged to meet in her hometown of Niles, Michigan, 20 miles across the state line from Zach’s home in Indiana.

“I had been with one other girl before that,” Zach said. “But she was 18, and I was 18, and I kind of just did it to get, you know, to do it, because I was 18.”

Zach picked the then-14-year-old girl up and they drove to a playground in Niles, where they had sex.

Unbeknownst to them, the girl’s mother had called police that night because she thought her daughter was missing. Two months later, detectives showed up at Zach’s job at a mechanic shop.

“I was in the middle of an oil change and my friend who was working there came into the back and was like, ‘There are two detectives here, Zach. They want to talk to you,'” Zach said. “And my hearts pounding like crazy so yeah I knew something was going down. I told my parents that night.”

Zach was arrested and eventually pleaded guilty to fourth-degree criminal sexual conduct. After admitting that she had lied about her age, the now 15-year-old and her mother even testified on Zach’s behalf at his trial.

According to court documents, the girl’s mother told the judge, “I don’t want him to be a sex offender because he really is not.” Her daughter added, “I feel nothing should happen to Zach.”

But the judge condemned what he called a culture of “meet, hook-up, have sex, sayonara, totally inappropriate behavior,” according to court documents. Zach was sentenced to 90 days in jail and ordered to register as a sex offender.

“The hardest part probably for me was to see him being led away, because he turned and looked at us, and it's like, we want to give him a hug, and you don't even have that opportunity,” said his father, Les Anderson.

Zach will be listed on the sex offender registry until 2040. His parents say the label is incredibly unfair.

“We don't see him that way,” Les Anderson said. “If our son's a sex offender, there's a lot of other people on that list like him which dilutes the list, and it almost makes it meaningless.”

Making matters worse, Michigan, where the crime occurred, is a state that does not provide an automatic defense if the victim lies about her age.

“We’re not talking about loosening the law, no one’s indicating that someone who preys on a young adult in a predatory manner shouldn’t be prosecuted, they absolutely should be,” said Zach's attorney Scott Grabel. “This is an instance in my opinion that you rarely get to say the defendant had no criminal intent, and I don’t think the defendant was even negligent in engaging in the encounter.”

Now on probation, Zach is trying to live his life as best he can within the restrictions of his probation. Since he is not allowed to use a computer, his budding career in computer science is now over.

“I could have had a really good career in that, and now I can't do that,” he said. “I can't really have an actual career. I'm going to be working a job, but not doing something I enjoy doing.”

Convicted sex offenders are forbidden from visiting any public park, which eliminated Zach's favorite activity: skateboarding. He also wasn’t allowed to live in his parents’ house because it was 800 feet of a public boat ramp, just shy of the 1,000-foot distance minimum.

“They're forcing him to leave jail, go to a house, and be by yourself, and be lonely basically,” Les Anderson said. “It wasn’t easy to find a place to live either. I mean because of all of the restrictions. You almost cannot live in the city here at all because you have to be so many feet from a school, a church.”

Zach’s parents were forced to dip into their savings for legal fees and to buy Zach a fixer-upper home on the other side of town that met the distance requirement.

Michigan state Sen. Rick Jones, who helped write the state’s sex offender registry law, says Zach should have been more careful.

“As you grow up, I mean young men are told you know in high school, 15 is jailbait,” Jones said. “Now that’s a slang term, but that’s what young men are told … I would hope that somebody who was 19 years old would say ‘Well do you have a driver's license or something? You don’t appear to be the appropriate age.’”

Next week, the Andersons will go back to court to appeal Zach’s sentence. The goal is for Zach to be removed from the sex offender registry. But they say their fight is bigger than their son alone.

“We hope that they stop putting people on the sex offender registry like they're passing out traffic tickets,” Amanda Anderson said. “There are hundreds and hundreds of people that don't deserve to be on that list, and it's supposed to be a safeguard for the community. And instead, they're just publicly shaming these people and our son for life.”


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Opinion:

This is absolutely ridiculous. Not only did he have consensual sex with someone he thought was 17, which is not rape by definition, but the girl and her family, the so called 'victims' actually asked for the charges to be dropped. What I found 'completely unacceptable' was the judge's decision to base his ruling off of his (messed-up, IMO) opinion on what society should be, instead of, you know, the actual law. How the fuck is he a sex offender if he didn't commit, you know, a sexual crime, at least not knowingly? As for the Senator's statement, really? Jailbait? Are you fucking kidding me? I just hope he knows that that's offensive. If not, we might be facing idiocy on a state level not seen since Delauter himself. This sex offender system needs to be torn down, burnt, stepped upon, left inside a building scheduled for demolition, and smashed until it's very molecules separate. If it can convict someone who was having consensual sex between a nineteen and seventeen year old (because that's what this is), something is up.

So, you've heard my opinion. Now, what's yours? Was the judge wrong, or right? Should Zach Anderson be considered a sex offender? Is Rick Jones a mini-Kirby Delauter? What say you, masses of NSG?
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:51 am

And this why I don't want to date anyone younger than me without personally knowing them. Michigan's one fucked up state... I can't wait to get to Iowa.
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:55 am

Well that's pretty retarded, I don't think he should be considered a sex offender myself.
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Postby Napkiraly » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:57 am

The Serbian Empire wrote:And this why I don't want to date anyone younger than me without personally knowing them. Michigan's one fucked up state... I can't wait to get to Iowa.

You know things are bad in Michigan when Iowa starts looking like a better alternative.

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Postby The Romulan Republic » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:57 am

The title is misleading. He fucked a 14 year old who said she was 17, right? Nice downplaying of the child molesting. >:(

Maybe he was lied to, but somehow, I doubt most 14 year olds look 17. And I think one has a responsibility to err on the side of caution if you're not sure of someone's age.

And weather the victim or her family want him to be charged is irrelevant. The law is the law, and the whole point of age of consent is that the victim is too young to have a say in the matter.

That said, from what I've heard about it, I think the sex offender registry is obscene. If someone is real threat, they shouldn't be let out of prison. And if they're not, they should be allowed to get on with their life, not stigmatized and harassed for ages afterward.
Last edited by The Romulan Republic on Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:00 am

Napkiraly wrote:
The Serbian Empire wrote:And this why I don't want to date anyone younger than me without personally knowing them. Michigan's one fucked up state... I can't wait to get to Iowa.

You know things are bad in Michigan when Iowa starts looking like a better alternative.

Especially knowing that there's nothing but grain elevators, corn, food processing plants, tractor factories, and ethanol refineries there or so it seems. That and violent tornadoes like the EF5 that hit Parkersburg and narrowly missed Waterloo, Iowa in 2008.
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Postby The Klishi Islands » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:06 am

The Romulan Republic wrote:The title is misleading. He fucked a 14 year old who said she was 17, right? Nice downplaying of the child molesting. >:(

Maybe he was lied to, but somehow, I doubt most 14 year olds look 17. And I think one has a responsibility to err on the side of caution if you're not sure of someone's age.

And weather the victim or her family want him to be charged is irrelevant. The law is the law, and the whole point of age of consent is that the victim is too young to have a say in the matter.

That said, from what I've heard about it, I think the sex offender registry is obscene. If someone is real threat, they shouldn't be let out of prison. And if they're not, they should be allowed to get on with their life, not stigmatized and harassed for ages afterward.


Looks can certainly be misleading. I'm 15, and yet I'm regularly asked what college I go to (especially if I'm on vacation and haven't shaved for a bit, or if I'm wearing a college t-shirt). I have been for more than a year, and I know both guys and girls in my grade in the same situation.
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Postby Greater Tezdrian » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:07 am

This happens literally all the time, how is it news?
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:08 am

The Klishi Islands wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:The title is misleading. He fucked a 14 year old who said she was 17, right? Nice downplaying of the child molesting. >:(

Maybe he was lied to, but somehow, I doubt most 14 year olds look 17. And I think one has a responsibility to err on the side of caution if you're not sure of someone's age.

And weather the victim or her family want him to be charged is irrelevant. The law is the law, and the whole point of age of consent is that the victim is too young to have a say in the matter.

That said, from what I've heard about it, I think the sex offender registry is obscene. If someone is real threat, they shouldn't be let out of prison. And if they're not, they should be allowed to get on with their life, not stigmatized and harassed for ages afterward.


Looks can certainly be misleading. I'm 15, and yet I'm regularly asked what college I go to (especially if I'm on vacation and haven't shaved for a bit, or if I'm wearing a college t-shirt). I have been for more than a year, and I know both guys and girls in my grade in the same situation.


Likewise, when I was a freshmen people would regularly think I was in college. Looks are really deceiving, and frankly this whole situation is retarded. No one was hurt and no one wants anyone charged, just let it go.
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Postby The Klishi Islands » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:09 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The Klishi Islands wrote:
Looks can certainly be misleading. I'm 15, and yet I'm regularly asked what college I go to (especially if I'm on vacation and haven't shaved for a bit, or if I'm wearing a college t-shirt). I have been for more than a year, and I know both guys and girls in my grade in the same situation.


Likewise, when I was a freshmen people would regularly think I was in college. Looks are really deceiving, and frankly this whole situation is retarded. No one was hurt and no one wants anyone charged, just let it go.


Well, one person was hurt- the guy who realized he had underage sex. And now he's hurt until 2040, which is absurd. Also, it sounds like the judge is rather biased here.
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:10 am

So is Michigan's age of consent 17, or is there a close in age exception that a 17 and 19 year old would fit into?
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Postby Vassenor » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:10 am

Man has consensual sex with '17' year old, now a crime


...When did statutory rape stop being a crime?
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Postby The Klishi Islands » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:12 am

Vassenor wrote:
Man has consensual sex with '17' year old, now a crime


...When did statutory rape stop being a crime?


He wasn't convicted of statutory rape.
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Postby The Romulan Republic » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:13 am

The Klishi Islands wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:The title is misleading. He fucked a 14 year old who said she was 17, right? Nice downplaying of the child molesting. >:(

Maybe he was lied to, but somehow, I doubt most 14 year olds look 17. And I think one has a responsibility to err on the side of caution if you're not sure of someone's age.

And weather the victim or her family want him to be charged is irrelevant. The law is the law, and the whole point of age of consent is that the victim is too young to have a say in the matter.

That said, from what I've heard about it, I think the sex offender registry is obscene. If someone is real threat, they shouldn't be let out of prison. And if they're not, they should be allowed to get on with their life, not stigmatized and harassed for ages afterward.


Looks can certainly be misleading. I'm 15, and yet I'm regularly asked what college I go to (especially if I'm on vacation and haven't shaved for a bit, or if I'm wearing a college t-shirt). I have been for more than a year, and I know both guys and girls in my grade in the same situation.


Like I said, err on the side of caution.

I would rather miss a chance to screw someone who was an adult than screw someone who I thought was an adult but wasn't. Sex is not a right- one is not entitled to it at the expense of another person.

I suppose you can imagine scenarios where someone looks older and lies convincingly and their really was no way to know. But that's an argument against casual sex with people you don't know and trust.

Frankly, I think that unless someone is obviously old or their partner knows them well enough to be sure of their age, showing their ID before sex should be standard procedure. Not legally obligatory because its intrusive and how the fuck would you enforce it? But certainly advisable.
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:13 am

Ifreann wrote:So is Michigan's age of consent 17, or is there a close in age exception that a 17 and 19 year old would fit into?

The problem is the 17 year old was really 14.
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:14 am

The Serbian Empire wrote:
Ifreann wrote:So is Michigan's age of consent 17, or is there a close in age exception that a 17 and 19 year old would fit into?

The problem is the 17 year old was really 14.

Yes, I did read the article. I ask because if having sex with a 17 year old would be illegal for a 19 year old in Michigan, then the defence that she said she was 17 is no defence at all.
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Postby New Aerios » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:16 am

Ifreann wrote:
The Serbian Empire wrote:The problem is the 17 year old was really 14.

Yes, I did read the article. I ask because if having sex with a 17 year old would be illegal for a 19 year old in Michigan, then the defence that she said she was 17 is no defence at all.


Google says Michigan's age of consent is 16.
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Postby Greater Tezdrian » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:16 am

Our age of consent/statutory rape/child porn laws are all interconnected, and all of them tend to routinely screw over teenagers in relationships; as well as leading to the occasional situation described in the OP. This is definitely an issue, but one very hard to address. After all, who wants to be the guy who ends up going easy on rapists and child molesters/pornographers? The line is thin and subjective.
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Postby The Klishi Islands » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:16 am

Ifreann wrote:
The Serbian Empire wrote:The problem is the 17 year old was really 14.

Yes, I did read the article. I ask because if having sex with a 17 year old would be illegal for a 19 year old in Michigan, then the defence that she said she was 17 is no defence at all.


The age of consent in Michigan is 16 and there is no close-in-age exception, unless one is an authority figure in which case the age of consent is 18.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of ... a#Michigan
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Postby Nilla Wayfarers » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:17 am

The Romulan Republic wrote:The title is misleading. He fucked a 14 year old who said she was 17, right? Nice downplaying of the child molesting. >:(

Maybe he was lied to, but somehow, I doubt most 14 year olds look 17. And I think one has a responsibility to err on the side of caution if you're not sure of someone's age.

He's not downplaying anything.
I'm 14. I tell people I'm a sophomore, and they ask which college I attend. It happens.
And weather the victim or her family want him to be charged is irrelevant. The law is the law, and the whole point of age of consent is that the victim is too young to have a say in the matter.

She seems to have enough say to get in bed with him.
That said, from what I've heard about it, I think the sex offender registry is obscene. If someone is real threat, they shouldn't be let out of prison. And if they're not, they should be allowed to get on with their life, not stigmatized and harassed for ages afterward.

The only problem is, it's hard to tell who's better and who'll do it again.
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Postby The Klishi Islands » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:18 am

Greater Tezdrian wrote:Our age of consent/statutory rape/child porn laws are all interconnected, and all of them tend to routinely screw over teenagers in relationships; as well as leading to the occasional situation described in the OP. This is definitely an issue, but one very hard to address. After all, who wants to be the guy who ends up going easy on rapists and child molesters/pornographers? The line is thin and subjective.


That's one of the advantages of states with "Romeo and Juliet" laws, which lower the age of consent if both parties are a certain age.
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Postby United States of Conner » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:20 am

The Romulan Republic wrote:The title is misleading. He fucked a 14 year old who said she was 17, right? Nice downplaying of the child molesting. >:(

Maybe he was lied to, but somehow, I doubt most 14 year olds look 17. And I think one has a responsibility to err on the side of caution if you're not sure of someone's age.

And weather the victim or her family want him to be charged is irrelevant. The law is the law, and the whole point of age of consent is that the victim is too young to have a say in the matter.

That said, from what I've heard about it, I think the sex offender registry is obscene. If someone is real threat, they shouldn't be let out of prison. And if they're not, they should be allowed to get on with their life, not stigmatized and harassed for ages afterward.

Not really molesting when it isn't assault. You know, 'assault or abuse sexually'? And plenty of fourteen year olds can look 17.

Whether or not the family wants charges pressed is completely relevant and shows how ridiculous this affair is.
Ifreann wrote:So is Michigan's age of consent 17, or is there a close in age exception that a 17 and 19 year old would fit into?

The age of consent is sixteen, but no close in age exemptions.
Vassenor wrote:
Man has consensual sex with '17' year old, now a crime


...When did statutory rape stop being a crime?

Presumably when the 'rapist' is having consensual sex with someone believed to be over the age of consent.
Last edited by United States of Conner on Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Romulan Republic
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Posts: 10903
Founded: May 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby The Romulan Republic » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:28 am

Nilla Wayfarers wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:The title is misleading. He fucked a 14 year old who said she was 17, right? Nice downplaying of the child molesting. >:(

Maybe he was lied to, but somehow, I doubt most 14 year olds look 17. And I think one has a responsibility to err on the side of caution if you're not sure of someone's age.

He's not downplaying anything.
I'm 14. I tell people I'm a sophomore, and they ask which college I attend. It happens.
And weather the victim or her family want him to be charged is irrelevant. The law is the law, and the whole point of age of consent is that the victim is too young to have a say in the matter.

She seems to have enough say to get in bed with him.
That said, from what I've heard about it, I think the sex offender registry is obscene. If someone is real threat, they shouldn't be let out of prison. And if they're not, they should be allowed to get on with their life, not stigmatized and harassed for ages afterward.

The only problem is, it's hard to tell who's better and who'll do it again.[/quote]

First of all, quotes are wrong.

Secondly, while I don't expect a title to contain a lot of detail, this thread's title only vaguely addresses the very relevant fact that the victim was not actually seventeen, and omits how much younger they were.

Thirdly, I've already addressed the possibility of someone looking older than they are. Again, err on the side of caution.

Fourth, your claim that "She seems to have enough say to get in bed with him.", and the implication that this means she was old enough to consent to sex, is utterly morally repulsive. By that reasoning, any child who is physically capable of climbing into bed with someone is old enough to have sex with (in other words, rape). This is blatant apologism for raping children, nothing more or less. If that was not your intent, perhaps you should be more clear.

And finally, I don't think any actual serious sex offenders should get let out, as a rule. I would never trust that they were cured. The people who should go free are the ones who got branded a sex offender over something minor, like sleeping with someone who was basically the same age when they were teenagers.
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Shamhnan Insir
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Shamhnan Insir » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:32 am

Shame for the guy.
But this is what you get for using a dating app.
Call me Sham

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Luziyca
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Posts: 39100
Founded: Nov 13, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Luziyca » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:36 am

Greater Tezdrian wrote:Our age of consent/statutory rape/child porn laws are all interconnected, and all of them tend to routinely screw over teenagers in relationships; as well as leading to the occasional situation described in the OP. This is definitely an issue, but one very hard to address. After all, who wants to be the guy who ends up going easy on rapists and child molesters/pornographers? The line is thin and subjective.

Exactly. It will be very hard to try and solve this issue without just setting the age of consent for sexual activities at 18 and calling it a day.

Personally, I can see the reasoning behind his placement in the list, but when the victim and the defendants are on the same side and even testify on his behalf, it seems like maybe he could have his charges reduced, but God knows what happens if the appeal is granted.
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