Race and IQ

[Mavorpen]

So what scientific basis is there for treating Black people as inferior to white people?

The Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study.

That master race reading comprehension at work, clearly.

Further down the Wikipedia page:

Waldman, Weinberg, and Scarr (1994) responded to Levin (1994) and Lynn (1994).[7] They noted that the data taken of adoption placement effects can explain the observed differences; but that they cannot make that claim firmly because the pre-adoption factors confounded racial ancestry, preventing an unambiguous interpretation of the results. They also note that Asian data fit that hypothesis while being omitted by both Levin and Lynn. They argued that, "contrary to Levin's and Lynn's assertions, results from the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study provide little or no conclusive evidence for genetic influences underlying racial differences in intelligence and achievement, " and note that "We think that it is exceedingly implausible that these differences are either entirely genetically based or entirely environmentally based. The true causes of racial-group differences in IQ, or in any other characteristic, are likely to be too complex to be captured by locating them on a single hereditarianism-environmentalism dimension."[7] On the question of Arthur Jensen (1998) examined these studies and reviewed the evidence that adoption does not affect children's IQ scores after age 7.

Also this:

[Norepinephrinistania]

Then why do tests written by black psychologists show the same 1-1.5 standard deviation IQ gap?

You're asking a question that is answered IN the post you're responding to.

I have never received a comprehensive answer as to how environmental factors outside the home can result in a 1-1.5 standard deviation IQ gap.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

The standards of admission are not "half" for black students. You've moved from deliberate misrepresentation and cherry-picking to outright lies.

It's was a hypothetical designed to show how it's ridiculous to say that blacks don't receive preferential treatment because they're still underrepresented. It was not intended to be interpreted as a statistical claim.

It wasn't a hypothetical, and was not represented as such by you. It was a bald-faced lie. I didn't think that your intellectual dishonesty could get any worse. I was incorrect in this assumption.

[Mavorpen]

Also, called it.

So what scientific basis is there for treating Black people as inferior to white people?

inb4linkalreadyrefuted

[Vassenor]

So what scientific basis is there for treating Black people as inferior to white people?

The Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study.

Is that your go-to answer to everything? The study that was deemed inconclusive by its own authors and has nothing to do with justifying racial discrimination?

[Liberty and Linguistics]

While evolution has accelerated to the point where different ethnicities have different hair, lactose tolerance, skin, and even some basic bone structure elements, evolution simply hasn't been in modern humans long enough to alter the fundamental brain structure and even skull structure of races. I'm a staunch believer in the Flynn Effect, which holds that all ethnicities are equal in regards to intelligence, but some are held back by societal factors. Hell, some impoverished folk are fundamentally worse at IQ tests simply because they've damaged their brains throughout time. However, that doesn't mean that their entire race is less intelligent on average. The Flynn Effect also holds that the IQ of the world is rising quite a bit, especially in the developing world, and it will soon level out. After all, when issues such as malnourishment and the like are solved, the intellectual capabilities of the disadvantaged will definitely increase.

In short, while there are factors that explain why some ethnicities perform lower on IQ tests and the like, that doesn't mean that a certain ethnicity has an average lower IQ than another ethnicity. It can simply be explained by factors unrelated to "brain size" and whatnot. The doctrine of racial realism and the like is a pseudoscience that cherrypicks. It should be debated with scientific facts. All races are equal in intelligence. While evolution can explain differences in penis size, lactose tolerance, and other qualities, it has yet to affect average intelligence.

[Mavorpen]

You're asking a question that is answered IN the post you're responding to.

I have never received a comprehensive answer as to how environmental factors outside the home can result in a 1-1.5 standard deviation IQ gap.

Because when you enter a home, you don't enter a void of space separate from the space-time of the rest of the universe.

[Laerod]

Are you seriously suggesting brain size correlates to intelligence?

Edit: This thread should die.

Or we should correct him. Can't let thinking like this persist.

You're in for some major disappointment if you think swaying racists is generally feasible through strength of argument.

[Norepinephrinistania]

While evolution has accelerated to the point where different ethnicities have different hair, lactose tolerance, skin, and even some basic bone structure elements, evolution simply hasn't been in modern humans long enough to alter the fundamental brain structure and even skull structure of races. I'm a staunch believer in the Flynn Effect, which holds that all ethnicities are equal in regards to intelligence, but some are held back by societal factors. Hell, some impoverished folk are fundamentally worse at IQ tests simply because they've damaged their brains throughout time. However, that doesn't mean that their entire race is less intelligent on average. The Flynn Effect also holds that the IQ of the world is rising quite a bit, especially in the developing world, and it will soon level out. After all, when issues such as malnourishment and the like are solved, the intellectual capabilities of the disadvantaged will definitely increase.

In short, while there are factors that explain why some ethnicities perform lower on IQ tests and the like, that doesn't mean that a certain ethnicity has an average lower IQ than another ethnicity. It can simply be explained by factors unrelated to "brain size" and whatnot. The doctrine of racial realism and the like is a pseudoscience that cherrypicks. It should be debated with scientific facts. All races are equal in intelligence. While evolution can explain differences in penis size, lactose tolerance, and other qualities, it has yet to affect average intelligence.

There are clear skull differences between blacks and whites. Intelligence is important to survival so is of course effected by natural selection.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Or we should correct him. Can't let thinking like this persist.

You're in for some major disappointment if you think swaying racists is generally feasible through strength of argument.

What's the quote? Oh, yeah. "You can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into the first place."

[MERIZoC]

While evolution has accelerated to the point where different ethnicities have different hair, lactose tolerance, skin, and even some basic bone structure elements, evolution simply hasn't been in modern humans long enough to alter the fundamental brain structure and even skull structure of races. I'm a staunch believer in the Flynn Effect, which holds that all ethnicities are equal in regards to intelligence, but some are held back by societal factors. Hell, some impoverished folk are fundamentally worse at IQ tests simply because they've damaged their brains throughout time. However, that doesn't mean that their entire race is less intelligent on average. The Flynn Effect also holds that the IQ of the world is rising quite a bit, especially in the developing world, and it will soon level out. After all, when issues such as malnourishment and the like are solved, the intellectual capabilities of the disadvantaged will definitely increase.

In short, while there are factors that explain why some ethnicities perform lower on IQ tests and the like, that doesn't mean that a certain ethnicity has an average lower IQ than another ethnicity. It can simply be explained by factors unrelated to "brain size" and whatnot. The doctrine of racial realism and the like is a pseudoscience that cherrypicks. It should be debated with scientific facts. All races are equal in intelligence. While evolution can explain differences in penis size, lactose tolerance, and other qualities, it has yet to affect average intelligence.

There are clear skull differences between blacks and whites. Intelligence is important to survival so is of course effected by natural selection.

Do you even read what you reply to?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

There are clear skull differences between blacks and whites. Intelligence is important to survival so is of course effected by natural selection.

Are you seriously advocating phrenology right now?

Really?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

While evolution has accelerated to the point where different ethnicities have different hair, lactose tolerance, skin, and even some basic bone structure elements, evolution simply hasn't been in modern humans long enough to alter the fundamental brain structure and even skull structure of races. I'm a staunch believer in the Flynn Effect, which holds that all ethnicities are equal in regards to intelligence, but some are held back by societal factors. Hell, some impoverished folk are fundamentally worse at IQ tests simply because they've damaged their brains throughout time. However, that doesn't mean that their entire race is less intelligent on average. The Flynn Effect also holds that the IQ of the world is rising quite a bit, especially in the developing world, and it will soon level out. After all, when issues such as malnourishment and the like are solved, the intellectual capabilities of the disadvantaged will definitely increase.

In short, while there are factors that explain why some ethnicities perform lower on IQ tests and the like, that doesn't mean that a certain ethnicity has an average lower IQ than another ethnicity. It can simply be explained by factors unrelated to "brain size" and whatnot. The doctrine of racial realism and the like is a pseudoscience that cherrypicks. It should be debated with scientific facts. All races are equal in intelligence. While evolution can explain differences in penis size, lactose tolerance, and other qualities, it has yet to affect average intelligence.

There are clear skull differences between blacks and whites. Intelligence is important to survival so is of course effected by natural selection.

Still waiting for those studies by black psychologists, by the way.

[Grave_n_idle]

You're asking a question that is answered IN the post you're responding to.

I have never received a comprehensive answer as to how environmental factors outside the home can result in a 1-1.5 standard deviation IQ gap.

Actually, you have. You just ignored it.

[Norepinephrinistania]

I have never received a comprehensive answer as to how environmental factors outside the home can result in a 1-1.5 standard deviation IQ gap.

Because when you enter a home, you don't enter a void of space separate from the space-time of the rest of the universe.

How can environment be the essential key to why the black-white IQ gap is false, when intelligence is 50-80% genetic?

[Vassenor]

There are clear skull differences between blacks and whites. Intelligence is important to survival so is of course effected by natural selection.

Are you seriously advocating phrenology right now?

Really?

They've been advocating phrenology for the entire thread. Their entire argument is predicated on the idea that "black people have different shaped skulls to white people so clearly black people are stupid".

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Still waiting for those studies by black psychologists, by the way.

Don't pretend you actually expect them to be provided, Yumyum.

[Liberty and Linguistics]

While evolution has accelerated to the point where different ethnicities have different hair, lactose tolerance, skin, and even some basic bone structure elements, evolution simply hasn't been in modern humans long enough to alter the fundamental brain structure and even skull structure of races. I'm a staunch believer in the Flynn Effect, which holds that all ethnicities are equal in regards to intelligence, but some are held back by societal factors. Hell, some impoverished folk are fundamentally worse at IQ tests simply because they've damaged their brains throughout time. However, that doesn't mean that their entire race is less intelligent on average. The Flynn Effect also holds that the IQ of the world is rising quite a bit, especially in the developing world, and it will soon level out. After all, when issues such as malnourishment and the like are solved, the intellectual capabilities of the disadvantaged will definitely increase.

In short, while there are factors that explain why some ethnicities perform lower on IQ tests and the like, that doesn't mean that a certain ethnicity has an average lower IQ than another ethnicity. It can simply be explained by factors unrelated to "brain size" and whatnot. The doctrine of racial realism and the like is a pseudoscience that cherrypicks. It should be debated with scientific facts. All races are equal in intelligence. While evolution can explain differences in penis size, lactose tolerance, and other qualities, it has yet to affect average intelligence.

There are clear skull differences between blacks and whites. Intelligence is important to survival so is of course effected by natural selection.

To an extent, there are skull differences. However, in the end, it matters as much as differences in the bone structure of a finger. The Japanese, sometimes regarded as the "smartest race", have smaller skulls than some Sub Saharan Africans. Using realist logic, the Japanese are the untermenschen. We know that's not true, so why assign this to Africans as well, who are, on average, as intellectually capable as any other race?

[Vassenor]

when intelligence is 50-80% genetic?

Another point that was disproved earlier in the thread which you've chosen to conveniently ignore.

[Liberty and Linguistics]

There are clear skull differences between blacks and whites. Intelligence is important to survival so is of course effected by natural selection.

Do you even read what you reply to?

He cherrypicked a certain remark I made about skulls.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Because when you enter a home, you don't enter a void of space separate from the space-time of the rest of the universe.

How can environment be the essential key to why the black-white IQ gap is false, when intelligence is 50-80% genetic?

It's already been shown to you that intelligence is not 50-80% genetic, and even then, environment would have to make up 20-50% of the difference.

[Mavorpen]

How can environment be the essential key to why the black-white IQ gap is false, when intelligence is 50-80% genetic?

Because intelligence is not 50-80% genetic.

When you actually read the source, it says that "about 80% of the total variance among individuals in this sample can be attributed to genetic differences among them", and that general cognition was the most heritable trait. That is not "IQ is 50-80% genetic".

Not only that, but the mean starting age of this study was 64. The authors were looking into cognitive abilities and variance as people age. It's almost as though this guy just throws out sources without reading them.

[Humo]

so are people really trying to reason with a clear racists

[MERIZoC]

Because when you enter a home, you don't enter a void of space separate from the space-time of the rest of the universe.

How can environment be the essential key to why the black-white IQ gap is false, when intelligence is 50-80% genetic?

Source.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Still waiting for those studies by black psychologists, by the way.

Don't pretend you actually expect them to be provided, Yumyum.

Not for one second, but I do believe in holding people's feet to the fire when they make outrageous claims.