Race and IQ

[Mavorpen]

I think that 15+ IQ points, a full standard deviation cannot just be due to environmental factors outside the home.

Repeating that doesn't make it true. The gap has been narrowing over the years, indicating that it is, in fact, environmental factors.

We often give blacks preferential treatment in academics.

No, we do not.

To me, explaining away a full standard deviation or more of IQ with silly things like test anxiety (IQ tests aren't graded) is the height of naivete.

For fuck's sake, stop saying this. We don't care if you can't comprehend something. It's not a fucking rebuttal. It's simply you failing to understand something.

[Mavorpen]

That doesn't say there is a genetic similarity between Nigerians and chimpanzees. Am I seriously the first person to point that out? It says English, Japanese, and Nigerians all have the same genetic distance to chimpanzees.

It shows that there is genetic difference between Eurasians and Africans. The Eurasians cluster more together, with the Africans last.

No it doesn't. It shows evidence for the presence of clades.

Also, nice backpedaling. Is this an admission that that chimpanzee stuff was bullshit?

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

No one has been able to address the genetic similarity of sub-Saharan Africans to chimpanzees.
(Image)
There has clearly been significant evolution that has occurred in Eurasian populations since they left Africa, making them genetically distinct through the effects of natural selection.

That figure is fake. Nei and Roychoudhoury's paper doesn't have any data on chimpanzees. They actually comment on the fact that using chimpanzees as roots in human phylogenetic trees isn't useful;

Vigilant et al. (1991) used the chimpanzee sequence to root their mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) from various human populations.The root obtained was not very reliable, because, in terms of the information contributing to the phylogenetic inference, because, in terms of the information contributing to the phylogenetic inference, mtDNA is equivalent to a single locus (Nei 1985), and the parsimony analysis did not give any resolution to the problem of rooting (Hedges et al 1992; Templeton 1992).

Of course, looking at the url of your figure is quite telling - it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the Daily Stormer has a vested interest in making Africans appear to be closely related to chimpanzees.

[Mavorpen]

No one has been able to address the genetic similarity of sub-Saharan Africans to chimpanzees.
(Image)
There has clearly been significant evolution that has occurred in Eurasian populations since they left Africa, making them genetically distinct through the effects of natural selection.

That figure is fake. Nei and Roychoudhoury's paper doesn't have any data on chimpanzees. They actually comment on the fact that using chimpanzees as roots in human phylogenetic trees isn't useful;

Vigilant et al. (1991) used the chimpanzee sequence to root their mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) from various human populations.The root obtained was not very reliable, because, in terms of the information contributing to the phylogenetic inference, because, in terms of the information contributing to the phylogenetic inference, mtDNA is equivalent to a single locus (Nei 1985), and the parsimony analysis did not give any resolution to the problem of rooting (Hedges et al 1992; Templeton 1992).

Of course, looking at the url of your figure is quite telling - it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the Daily Stormer has a vested interest in making Africans appear to be closely related to chimpanzees.

$10 he ignores this like the last time when you called him out in his bullshit about 23andme.

"Find out what percent of your DNA comes from populations around the world, ranging from East Asia, Sub-Saharan Africa, Europe, and more."
East Asian, European, and sub-Saharan African are races.

23andme asks people that submit their DNA for analysis to report their countries of origin and race so that they can conduct analyses - if they didn't, their SNP array would not have the statistical power to determine ancestry.

And, again, they're using SNPs here as molecular clocks. They have no function.

[Norepinephrinistania]

I think that 15+ IQ points, a full standard deviation cannot just be due to environmental factors outside the home.

Repeating that doesn't make it true. The gap has been narrowing over the years, indicating that it is, in fact, environmental factors.

We often give blacks preferential treatment in academics.

No, we do not.

To me, explaining away a full standard deviation or more of IQ with silly things like test anxiety (IQ tests aren't graded) is the height of naivete.

For fuck's sake, stop saying this. We don't care if you can't comprehend something. It's not a fucking rebuttal. It's simply you failing to understand something.

Show me statistics that the gap has been narrowing over the years. Right now, the Flynn effect seems to be effecting everyone in America equally (though women are rising slightly faster than men).
There have been many lawsuits on the matter of affirmative action, from quotas to general preferential admissions. There is a lawsuit right now going to the supreme court that might strike preferential treatment because of affirmative action down. (and it never achieved it's goal)
I like how liberals go between claiming that we should give preferential treatment to minorities to "preferential treatment of minorities doesn't exist"

[Norepinephrinistania]

It shows that there is genetic difference between Eurasians and Africans. The Eurasians cluster more together, with the Africans last.

No it doesn't. It shows evidence for the presence of clades.

Also, nice backpedaling. Is this an admission that that chimpanzee stuff was bullshit?

I did indeed read that too fast and didn't recognize how the graph worked. That doesn't disprove my assertion that sub-Saharan Africans are more closely related to Chimpanzees, (out of Africa theory), however.

[The Archregimancy]

No one has been able to address the genetic similarity of sub-Saharan Africans to chimpanzees.
(Image)
There has clearly been significant evolution that has occurred in Eurasian populations since they left Africa, making them genetically distinct through the effects of natural selection.

Tell us, have you actually read Nei and Roychaudry's 1993 paper 'Evolutionary Relationships of Human Populations on a Global Scale'?

Because the only time it (very briefly) mentions chimpanzees, at the bottom of page 930, it's to specifically criticise the use of chimpanzee mtDNA to root a human mitochondrial DNA tree.

In other words, the source spuriously used to construct that table - a source which never once compares chimpanzee DNA to human DNA across its 16 pages - specifically rejects the contention in that table.

The full source is:

Nei, Masatoshi and Roychaudry, Arun K.
1993 'Evolutionary Relationships of Human Populations on a Global Scale' Molecular Biolology and Evolution 10(5): 927-943.

[Mavorpen]

Show me statistics that the gap has been narrowing over the years. Right now, the Flynn effect seems to be effecting everyone in America equally (though women are rising slightly faster than men).

http://people.virginia.edu/~ent3c/paper ... 012int.pdf

There have been many lawsuits on the matter of affirmative action, from quotas to general preferential admissions. There is a lawsuit right now going to the supreme court that might strike preferential treatment because of affirmative action down. (and it never achieved it's goal)

So basically, we don't give blacks preferential treatment.

I like how liberals go between claiming that we should give preferential treatment to minorities to "preferential treatment of minorities doesn't exist"

I like how you completely fail to read and understand what people are actually saying while still pretending to be intellectually superior because of race.

[Mavorpen]

I did indeed read that too fast and didn't recognize how the graph worked.

Read too fast? You didn't read at all.

That doesn't disprove my assertion that sub-Saharan Africans are more closely related to Chimpanzees, (out of Africa theory), however.

Well no, the fact that you have no evidence for that, the fact that you used a fake figure to peddle your racist bullshit, and the fact that your own fake figure says they all have the exact same genetic distance from chimpanzees does.

[Imperializt Russia]

No it doesn't. It shows evidence for the presence of clades.

Also, nice backpedaling. Is this an admission that that chimpanzee stuff was bullshit?

I did indeed read that too fast and didn't recognize how the graph worked. That doesn't disprove my assertion that sub-Saharan Africans are more closely related to Chimpanzees, (out of Africa theory), however.

...
It does, because it shows that English and Japanese (Europeans and East Asians) are exactly as related to within one-hundredth of a unit.

[Norepinephrinistania]

Show me statistics that the gap has been narrowing over the years. Right now, the Flynn effect seems to be effecting everyone in America equally (though women are rising slightly faster than men).

http://people.virginia.edu/~ent3c/paper ... 012int.pdf

There have been many lawsuits on the matter of affirmative action, from quotas to general preferential admissions. There is a lawsuit right now going to the supreme court that might strike preferential treatment because of affirmative action down. (and it never achieved it's goal)

So basically, we don't give blacks preferential treatment.

I like how liberals go between claiming that we should give preferential treatment to minorities to "preferential treatment of minorities doesn't exist"

I like how you completely fail to read and understand what people are actually saying while still pretending to be intellectually superior because of race.

American universities, except those in states where affirmative action is banned by law, some of the Federal Government's agencies, and some private corporations do indeed give preferential treatment to blacks. This is indisputable. College prep organizations will tell you that oftentimes, race plays a role in admission. end rant.

Many employers used to give IQ tests until it was banned by law because blacks were doing so poorly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co.

[Norepinephrinistania]

I did indeed read that too fast and didn't recognize how the graph worked.

Read too fast? You didn't read at all.

That doesn't disprove my assertion that sub-Saharan Africans are more closely related to Chimpanzees, (out of Africa theory), however.

Well no, the fact that you have no evidence for that, the fact that you used a fake figure to peddle your racist bullshit, and the fact that your own fake figure says they all have the exact same genetic distance from chimpanzees does.

You have continuously engaged in ad hominem attacks. Your refutations contain little more than that and parroting SJW talking points.

[Mavorpen]

American universities, except those in states where affirmative action is banned by law, some of the Federal Government's agencies, and some private corporations do indeed give preferential treatment to blacks. This is indisputable. College prep organizations will tell you that oftentimes, race plays a role in admission. end rant.

Okay, so blacks don't get preferential treatment.

Many employers used to give IQ tests until it was banned by law because blacks were doing so poorly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co.

...Okay?

Also, you guys owe me $10. He completely ignored the posts pointing out that he used a fraudulent figure.

[Imperializt Russia]

http://people.virginia.edu/~ent3c/paper ... 012int.pdf

So basically, we don't give blacks preferential treatment.

I like how you completely fail to read and understand what people are actually saying while still pretending to be intellectually superior because of race.

American universities, except those in states where affirmative action is banned by law, some of the Federal Government's agencies, and some private corporations do indeed give preferential treatment to blacks. This is indisputable. College prep organizations will tell you that oftentimes, race plays a role in admission. end rant.

Many employers used to give IQ tests until it was banned by law because blacks were doing so poorly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co.

Blacks used to do really poorly on voting literacy tests too. There's a reason why. It's not even "b/c blacks".

IQ isn't a meaningful indicator of anything but basic cognitive skills.

[Mavorpen]

You have continuously engaged in ad hominem attacks. Your refutations contain little more than that and parroting SJW talking points.

Oh, oh! There is is! The signal that you've run out of arguments so you resort to namedropping the boogeyman that is the evil "SJW"! Ooooh, so scary!

[Norepinephrinistania]

American universities, except those in states where affirmative action is banned by law, some of the Federal Government's agencies, and some private corporations do indeed give preferential treatment to blacks. This is indisputable. College prep organizations will tell you that oftentimes, race plays a role in admission. end rant.

Okay, so blacks don't get preferential treatment.

Many employers used to give IQ tests until it was banned by law because blacks were doing so poorly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co.

...Okay?

Also, you guys owe me $10. He completely ignored the posts pointing out that he used a fraudulent figure.

What? Are you actually trying to claim that blacks don't receive preferential treatment? Affirmative action is at the forefront of American education debate, both pro and con.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ans ... l-matters/

And I addressed your assertion. I gave credit where credit was due. You just continue to make ad hominem attacks without evidence.

[Norepinephrinistania]

American universities, except those in states where affirmative action is banned by law, some of the Federal Government's agencies, and some private corporations do indeed give preferential treatment to blacks. This is indisputable. College prep organizations will tell you that oftentimes, race plays a role in admission. end rant.

Many employers used to give IQ tests until it was banned by law because blacks were doing so poorly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co.

Blacks used to do really poorly on voting literacy tests too. There's a reason why. It's not even "b/c blacks".

IQ isn't a meaningful indicator of anything but basic cognitive skills.

So blacks have inferior basic cognitive skills, regardless of wealth or culture? You're words, not mine.

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

Also, you guys owe me $10. He completely ignored the posts pointing out that he used a fraudulent figure.

Yep. He dropped the chimpanzee-African genetic claim and moved to IQ pretty fast, didn't he?

[Napkiraly]

No it doesn't. It shows evidence for the presence of clades.

Also, nice backpedaling. Is this an admission that that chimpanzee stuff was bullshit?

I did indeed read that too fast and didn't recognize how the graph worked. That doesn't disprove my assertion that sub-Saharan Africans are more closely related to Chimpanzees, (out of Africa theory), however.

Yes it does. Literally every single group is the exact same distance from chimpanzees. Japanese, English, and Bantu are 1.60.

[Redsection]

Iq is simply based off of how much you read , how well you understand something. There is no relation between race. Iv'e taken the stupid test and i easily scored genius levels of thinking in all subjects,save the math part.

[Mavorpen]

What? Are you actually trying to claim that blacks don't receive preferential treatment?

Yes.

Affirmative action is at the forefront of American education debate, both pro and con.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ans ... l-matters/

Okay, so blacks don't receive preferential treatment.

And I addressed your assertion.

You haven't addressed any of my assertions.

I gave credit where credit was due.

What?

You just continue to make ad hominem attacks without evidence.

All of the necessary evidence is widely available in my sig. Right now my prime focus is to just dismantle any garbage you happen to bring up in the thread. If you feel like actually reading some research instead of parroting trash you find on white supremacist websites, feel free to go do so.

[Norepinephrinistania]

I did indeed read that too fast and didn't recognize how the graph worked. That doesn't disprove my assertion that sub-Saharan Africans are more closely related to Chimpanzees, (out of Africa theory), however.

Yes it does. Literally every single group is the exact same distance from chimpanzees. Japanese, English, and Bantu are 1.60.

Like others said, the real study didn't mention chimpanzees. I didn't read the real study. You got me there.

[Mavorpen]

Yes it does. Literally every single group is the exact same distance from chimpanzees. Japanese, English, and Bantu are 1.60.

Like others said, the real study didn't mention chimpanzees. I didn't read the real study. You got me there.

So then tell us, why should we take you seriously given this?

[Norepinephrinistania]

What? Are you actually trying to claim that blacks don't receive preferential treatment?

Yes.

Affirmative action is at the forefront of American education debate, both pro and con.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ans ... l-matters/

Okay, so blacks don't receive preferential treatment.

And I addressed your assertion.

You haven't addressed any of my assertions.

I gave credit where credit was due.

What?

You just continue to make ad hominem attacks without evidence.

All of the necessary evidence is widely available in my sig. Right now my prime focus is to just dismantle any garbage you happen to bring up in the thread. If you feel like actually reading some research instead of parroting trash you find on white supremacist websites, feel free to go do so.

Explain to me how blacks don't receive preferential treatment in states where affirmative action isn't banned.

[Amuaplye]

This probably has the same amount of truth that the claim that vaccines cause autism have. (None.)