Is morality possible without God

[The Debauched Rabbit]

Please don't smiley spam.


Otherwise I might subject you to a 90-minute lecture about the history of non-theistic Confucian morality.

That or give you a formal red-text warning.

sry there m8
Im just annoyed with posts that promotes Richard Dawkinism :/

Richard Dawkinism? Is that really a thing now?
Jesus Christ. They're coming up with names for everything now. I mean, I can't just be an atheist anymore. I have to be an atheist-part-agnostic-train-meister. It's all just paranoia.

Richard Dawkinism, my eye.

[Hurdegaryp]

sry there m8
Im just annoyed with posts that promotes Richard Dawkinism :/

Richard Dawkinism? Is that really a thing now?
Jesus Christ. They're coming up with names for everything now. I mean, I can't just be an atheist anymore. I have to be an atheist-part-agnostic-train-meister. It's all just paranoia.

Richard Dawkinism, my eye.

Just subscribe to DebauchedRabbitism and become an expert in that specific field.

[Godular]

Exactly.

Glad we agree.
Also, I'm an atheist now. Thank you.

Told ya you'd know who to thank.

[Geanna]

Im just annoyed with posts that promotes Richard Dawkinism :/

Is it a fair assumption you're referring to that devious, atheistic-communist plot known commonly as "science?"

There's maybe one or two here that may fit that card, and I'm not one. I don't like Dawkins

Hey now. He can be an ass, but give the man his due; he's extremely intelligent.

I never said he wasn't intelligent I just don't agree with him.

I'd have to agree with you - I'm non-partisan and believe the politics involved are utter tripe.

*rosary, ski mask, and automatic weapon somehow fall out of back pocket*

i can explain

[/quote]

Oi - now what do we have here? Goin' out for a bit of partyin' are ya?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

*rosary, ski mask, and automatic weapon somehow fall out of back pocket*

i can explain

Oi - now what do we have here? Goin' out for a bit of partyin' are ya?

um. um.

*looks around for help, sees his friends are largely a bunch of disarmed wusses*

Fuck it. Erin go bragh, loyalist traitor. *something explodes*

[Geanna]

Oi - now what do we have here? Goin' out for a bit of partyin' are ya?

um. um.

*looks around for help, sees his friends are largely a bunch of disarmed wusses*

Fuck it. Erin go bragh, loyalist traitor. *something explodes*

Eirinn go brach* Eirin go bragh is the Sassy spelling xD

[The Debauched Rabbit]

Richard Dawkinism? Is that really a thing now?
Jesus Christ. They're coming up with names for everything now. I mean, I can't just be an atheist anymore. I have to be an atheist-part-agnostic-train-meister. It's all just paranoia.

Richard Dawkinism, my eye.

Just subscribe to DebauchedRabbitism and become an expert in that specific field.

Urgh.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

um. um.

*looks around for help, sees his friends are largely a bunch of disarmed wusses*

Fuck it. Erin go bragh, loyalist traitor. *something explodes*

Eirinn go brach* Eirin go bragh is the Sassy spelling xD

shit. shit. i fucked up.

*is pulled into shadows never to be seen again*

This is funny and all, but for the record, I do have IRA sympathies. *shrugs*

[Hurdegaryp]

Oi - now what do we have here? Goin' out for a bit of partyin' are ya?

um. um.

*looks around for help, sees his friends are largely a bunch of disarmed wusses*

Fuck it. Erin go bragh, loyalist traitor. *something explodes*

You, unlike the beast, have forgotten your insignificance.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

um. um.

*looks around for help, sees his friends are largely a bunch of disarmed wusses*

Fuck it. Erin go bragh, loyalist traitor. *something explodes*

You, unlike the beast, have forgotten your insignificance.

I knew there was something I was supposed to remember.

*is crushed by tsunami*

[Geanna]

Eirinn go brach* Eirin go bragh is the Sassy spelling xD

shit. shit. i fucked up.

*is pulled into shadows never to be seen again*

This is funny and all, but for the record, I do have IRA sympathies. *shrugs*

Shrug

I'm non-partisan, I support neither side.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

I'm non-partisan, I support neither side.

Right. Neither side.

*hands Geanna a mortar shell, crucifix, and ski mask under table*

[Camelza]

In my opinion morality is relative, therefore morality's dependence on the divine is not required for morality's existence since it is not something definite, or absolute to set parameters on.

[Salandriagado]

And that's exactly relevant to this conversation - how? If it's troubling you, it's easy to avoid the discussion - which, is what it is. Not to sound shrewd, so please don't assume it as such - but you can't participate an expect people to agree with you, or that they won't challenge you. If you're looking for that kind of media, a blog is better suited. Now, I may not agree with some of me 'colleagues' (the other atheists) here, in the manner that they handle these discussions - but coming to a conversation without at least a little bit of an open-mind doesn't bode well.

Which, as mentioned above - I don't agree with some of my more aggressive atheists in the manner of denouncing and calling people's beliefs stupid et cetera - to me, that is just trying to be the bigger man, and goes against the ethics of what I consider thorough intellectual debate. The same can obviously be said about the religious people participating as well - we're not here to be 'saved'. The reason these threads get locked so much, is that both sides lack any common decency to be civil, which is ironic in reality, and the debate devolves into the equivalent of two old ladies barking at each other from across the peanut gallery.

You claim that others have been aggressive, when you are doing exactly the same thing. They're taking away my right to complain about them

Nobody is taking away your right to free speech. Right to free speech =/= right to not be called out for saying stupid shit.

like they're taking my right to live in a country free of gay marriage.

That's not a right.

You call that morality?

Yup.

Technically speaking, everything is within the laws of nature, and therefore natural.

What, even what man makes? Buildings are natural? How about electricity? I've heard that bubblewrap is pretty organic(!) Politics and nations are not natural. They are merely ideas conjured up by Great Men of the past.

Natural =/= organic. Natural: arising from nature. Humans arise from nature, hence anything we make arises from nature, so is natural. "Natural" is a word so utterly generic as to be all but meaningless.

[Herskerstad]

Morality? Well, certainly no transcendence beyond the concept of the collective good. However de-facto without any transcendent nature then ones own existence would be the alpha and omega so to speak which would make it hard to argue against self-serving attitudes however vile.

The weaker the cause, the weaker the effect.

A common mistake people make when talking about morality outside the context of religious dogma. Humans, being a group animal, have always had morality that transcended the individual needs, because we as a species survive better when we cooperate. It's actually a basic biological principle. The greater good is real.

Which is why I defined the 'greater good' as the collective, still not an construct transcendent beyond humanity and even worse, altering quite objectively from human to human. As such judgement itself becomes a rather arbitrary matter of well, arbitration, as one could by basis of limitation to ones own existence and factors one sees pertinent justify any action beyond concepts such as moral re-approach, because it would be exactly that. A concept, an idea, something out of nothing appertaining objectively from persons to persons. Without transcendence, judgement itself becomes entirely arbitrary to a Descartian 'how is that for terms' degree.

The weaker the cause, the weaker the effect.

[Adnan Nawaz And Bureacrats Elsewhere]

Natural =/= organic. Natural: arising from nature. Humans arise from nature, hence anything we make arises from nature, so is natural. "Natural" is a word so utterly generic as to be all but meaningless.

Sort of like morality, then? Unless, of course, you persist in believing that everything is meaningless?

[New DeCapito]

Natural =/= organic. Natural: arising from nature. Humans arise from nature, hence anything we make arises from nature, so is natural. "Natural" is a word so utterly generic as to be all but meaningless.

Sort of like morality, then? Unless, of course, you persist in believing that everything is meaningless?

Why shouldn't we? Why does there have to be a meaning to everything?

[Jentopia-1]

What about a robot goddess?

[Jentopia-1]

Sort of like morality, then? Unless, of course, you persist in believing that everything is meaningless?

Why shouldn't we? Why does there have to be a meaning to everything?

Because one cannot divide by zero.

[Adnan Nawaz And Bureacrats Elsewhere]

Sort of like morality, then? Unless, of course, you persist in believing that everything is meaningless?

Why shouldn't we? Why does there have to be a meaning to everything?

There doesn't. Technically, I'm agnostic, but I believe in my own God as a substitute for the one I don't believe exists to everyone. It's more of a personal philosophy than anything else. Then again, I'm scared of there being a morality without some authority, hence why I've made one up as a coping mechanism.

[Esheaun Stroakuss]

I agree with the majority of your post. However, I must inquire about your statement that we are born atheists. I think that atheism can only really exist if theism exists, as atheism is a rejection of theism's burden of proof. Can you please elaborate on that point?

Atheism has more than one simple meaning. One of the cores of atheism is the lack of a belief in God. I was simply underlining the fact that we are born with no beliefs or knowledge of anything, which is a lack of belief. However atheism's flexible definitions make it easier (for both atheists and theists) to give it their own personal definition. I can see what you're saying though, if theism did not exist (controversial scenario, calm your chesticals) the term or even idea of atheism would not exist as it is directly associated with theism. So for a baby to be atheist they must be able to reject the theist's burden of proof.

Ahhhh ok. I see what you mean now. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

[Dyakovo]

Natural =/= organic. Natural: arising from nature. Humans arise from nature, hence anything we make arises from nature, so is natural. "Natural" is a word so utterly generic as to be all but meaningless.

Sort of like morality, then? Unless, of course, you persist in believing that everything is meaningless?

"Morality is subjective" =/= "everything is meaningless"

[The Foxes Swamp]

yes

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Why shouldn't we? Why does there have to be a meaning to everything?

There doesn't. Technically, I'm agnostic, but I believe in my own God as a substitute for the one I don't believe exists to everyone. It's more of a personal philosophy than anything else. Then again, I'm scared of there being a morality without some authority, hence why I've made one up as a coping mechanism.

That is both saddening and brutally honest.

[Felkinia]

No. Morality revolves around the idea of a deity. Indeed, you could set your own morality by your own morals, but then again, where do we get morals? Why is murder wrong?