Is morality possible without God

[Donut section]

This thread continues to alternate between "elegant chattering" and the written equivalent of bringing a paper mâché spoon to trench warfare.

As for morals and religions, I think the latter stems (poorly) from the former.

As an atheist I always aim to do the least amount of harm and help as much as I can.

[United States of White America]

Lol Richard Dawkinism

You're only laughing to cover up the truth.

[Hurdegaryp]

Lol Richard Dawkinism

You're only laughing to cover up the truth.

The truth being something that you appear to have a bit of a problem with, as we established earlier in this thread.

[Geanna]

This thread continues to alternate between "elegant chattering" and the written equivalent of bringing a paper mâché spoon to trench warfare.

As for morals and religions, I think the latter stems (poorly) from the former.

As an atheist I always aim to do the least amount of harm and help as much as I can.

If I could sig that, I would. Partly what convinced me to become an atheist was growing up around the peace walls in NI.

[Hurdegaryp]

This thread continues to alternate between "elegant chattering" and the written equivalent of bringing a paper mâché spoon to trench warfare.

As for morals and religions, I think the latter stems (poorly) from the former.

As an atheist I always aim to do the least amount of harm and help as much as I can.

If I could sig that, I would. Partly what convinced me to become an atheist was growing up around the peace walls in NI.

Northern Ireland could certainly use a decline of all denominations in the area. Given their history, it would probably result in a collective moral upgrade.

[Geanna]

Me.



You can start spiralling and despairing then. I've been told it's rather fun.

Enough of the sarcasm.

I tried starting a thread about the "merits" of atheism, only for it to be locked.

And that's exactly relevant to this conversation - how? If it's troubling you, it's easy to avoid the discussion - which, is what it is. Not to sound shrewd, so please don't assume it as such - but you can't participate an expect people to agree with you, or that they won't challenge you. If you're looking for that kind of media, a blog is better suited. Now, I may not agree with some of me 'colleagues' (the other atheists) here, in the manner that they handle these discussions - but coming to a conversation without at least a little bit of an open-mind doesn't bode well.

Which, as mentioned above - I don't agree with some of my more aggressive atheists in the manner of denouncing and calling people's beliefs stupid et cetera - to me, that is just trying to be the bigger man, and goes against the ethics of what I consider thorough intellectual debate. The same can obviously be said about the religious people participating as well - we're not here to be 'saved'. The reason these threads get locked so much, is that both sides lack any common decency to be civil, which is ironic in reality, and the debate devolves into the equivalent of two old ladies barking at each other from across the peanut gallery.

[Risottia]

Me.



You can start spiralling and despairing then. I've been told it's rather fun.

Enough of the sarcasm.

You want to live a life without sarcasm? I guess you're already spiralling into despair if you can even tolerate the thought of it. Have you experienced an epiphany recently, by any chance?

[Donut section]

This thread continues to alternate between "elegant chattering" and the written equivalent of bringing a paper mâché spoon to trench warfare.

As for morals and religions, I think the latter stems (poorly) from the former.

As an atheist I always aim to do the least amount of harm and help as much as I can.

If I could sig that, I would. Partly what convinced me to become an atheist was growing up around the peace walls in NI.

Im guessing that's in America.

I've always been an atheist, an outspoken rebellious one as a young teen till I realised that my God bashing was hurting my grandmother, who was raising me at the time, and helping no one.

Now I'm the atheist everyone wants to beat at charity drives at my friends church's.

[Ostroeuropa]

Yes / No

Dependent on whether you think morality is a nonsense in the first place, or whether you think morality is a collectively agreed upon thing (or a subjective and personal thing.).

I tend to vacillate between those views.

[Geanna]

If I could sig that, I would. Partly what convinced me to become an atheist was growing up around the peace walls in NI.

Im guessing that's in America.

I've always been an atheist, an outspoken rebellious one as a young teen till I realised that my God bashing was hurting my grandmother, who was raising me at the time, and helping no one.

Now I'm the atheist everyone wants to beat at charity drives at my friends church's.

NI is Northern Ireland.

[Donut section]

Im guessing that's in America.

I've always been an atheist, an outspoken rebellious one as a young teen till I realised that my God bashing was hurting my grandmother, who was raising me at the time, and helping no one.

Now I'm the atheist everyone wants to beat at charity drives at my friends church's.

NI is Northern Ireland.

Ahh my bad.

[Lordieth]

Yes / No

Dependent on whether you think morality is a nonsense in the first place, or whether you think morality is a collectively agreed upon thing (or a subjective and personal thing.).

I tend to vacillate between those views.

I've personally never held stock in Objective morality. It is a social construct. That doesn't mean I take a nihilistic view on morality, though. It has meaning. It's just not tangible.

[Geanna]

If I could sig that, I would. Partly what convinced me to become an atheist was growing up around the peace walls in NI.

Northern Ireland could certainly use a decline of all denominations in the area. Given their history, it would probably result in a collective moral upgrade.

I'd have to agree with you - I'm non-partisan and believe the politics involved are utter tripe.

[Hurdegaryp]

Enough of the sarcasm.

I tried starting a thread about the "merits" of atheism, only for it to be locked.

And that's exactly relevant to this conversation - how? If it's troubling you, it's easy to avoid the discussion - which, is what it is. Not to sound shrewd, so please don't assume it as such - but you can't participate an expect people to agree with you, or that they won't challenge you. If you're looking for that kind of media, a blog is better suited. Now, I may not agree with some of me 'colleagues' (the other atheists) here, in the manner that they handle these discussions - but coming to a conversation without at least a little bit of an open-mind doesn't bode well.

Which, as mentioned above - I don't agree with some of my more aggressive atheists in the manner of denouncing and calling people's beliefs stupid et cetera - to me, that is just trying to be the bigger man, and goes against the ethics of what I consider thorough intellectual debate. The same can obviously be said about the religious people participating as well - we're not here to be 'saved'. The reason these threads get locked so much, is that both sides lack any common decency to be civil, which is ironic in reality, and the debate devolves into the equivalent of two old ladies barking at each other from across the peanut gallery.

In the blasted digital wastelands of the internet, keyboard warriors reign supreme.

[Lordieth]

If I could sig that, I would. Partly what convinced me to become an atheist was growing up around the peace walls in NI.

Northern Ireland could certainly use a decline of all denominations in the area. Given their history, it would probably result in a collective moral upgrade.

Separation of church and state is a good thing, and I've hard very little argument to convince me otherwise.

[Geanna]

And that's exactly relevant to this conversation - how? If it's troubling you, it's easy to avoid the discussion - which, is what it is. Not to sound shrewd, so please don't assume it as such - but you can't participate an expect people to agree with you, or that they won't challenge you. If you're looking for that kind of media, a blog is better suited. Now, I may not agree with some of me 'colleagues' (the other atheists) here, in the manner that they handle these discussions - but coming to a conversation without at least a little bit of an open-mind doesn't bode well.

Which, as mentioned above - I don't agree with some of my more aggressive atheists in the manner of denouncing and calling people's beliefs stupid et cetera - to me, that is just trying to be the bigger man, and goes against the ethics of what I consider thorough intellectual debate. The same can obviously be said about the religious people participating as well - we're not here to be 'saved'. The reason these threads get locked so much, is that both sides lack any common decency to be civil, which is ironic in reality, and the debate devolves into the equivalent of two old ladies barking at each other from across the peanut gallery.

In the blasted digital wastelands of the internet, keyboard warriors reign supreme.

Yuuuuuuuuup

[Ostroeuropa]

Yes / No

Dependent on whether you think morality is a nonsense in the first place, or whether you think morality is a collectively agreed upon thing (or a subjective and personal thing.).

I tend to vacillate between those views.

I've personally never held stock in Objective morality. It is a social construct. That doesn't mean I take a nihilistic view on morality, though. It has meaning. It's just not tangible.

Objective morality isn't one I put stock in either.
I accept that societal morality and subjective personal morality are things that appear to exist, but also accept that the nihilists have a point and that it isn't really a real tangible thing that has any universal actual force behind it or whatever, and isn't based in reality, but is rather a social construct.

[Hurdegaryp]

Northern Ireland could certainly use a decline of all denominations in the area. Given their history, it would probably result in a collective moral upgrade.

Separation of church and state is a good thing, and I've hard very little argument to convince me otherwise.

It's what I consider one of the basic tenets of a civilized society.

[Geanna]

I've personally never held stock in Objective morality. It is a social construct. That doesn't mean I take a nihilistic view on morality, though. It has meaning. It's just not tangible.

Objective morality isn't one I put stock in either.
I accept that societal morality and subjective personal morality are things that appear to exist, but also accept that the nihilists have a point and that it isn't really a real tangible thing that has any universal actual force behind it or whatever, and isn't based in reality, but is rather a social construct.

Not to mention that the premise of objective reasoning to any degree can be comparable to morality is hogwash.

[Lordieth]

Separation of church and state is a good thing, and I've hard very little argument to convince me otherwise.

It's what I consider one of the basic tenets of a civilized society.

I absolutely agree. It's no coincidence that there's a correlation between progressive policies in equality and the separation of church and state.

[The Grim Reaper]

In the blasted digital wastelands of the internet, keyboard warriors reign supreme.

Yuuuuuuuuup

Good evening sirs and madames, how may I help you? With the recent ruling in the Supreme Court and the endorsement by Obama, we've been forced to stop stocking any goods classified as "assault keyboards". However, if you have a keyboard license - or a concealed carry keyboard license, of course - we can still sell you a battery-powered keyboard. It has to be reloaded after every use, but it offers all the stopping power of your average assault keyboard. In the everyday civilian world, it's likely that you'll have plenty of time to reload after getting a few shots off.

I'm afraid we no longer stock replica keyboards or keyboard-mimicking toys and sportsgoods, out of concern for possible confusion in the wider world between these facsimiles and real keyboards.

We don't stock military keyboards, or military-style keyboards, due to concerns raised by the local government, but we can point you to private dealers offering surplus military keyboards. You would have to be registered on a voluntary industry registrar, though. Privately kept, of course, to protect our responsible keyboard owners from vigilante keyboard-toting criminals.

[Lordieth]

I've personally never held stock in Objective morality. It is a social construct. That doesn't mean I take a nihilistic view on morality, though. It has meaning. It's just not tangible.

Objective morality isn't one I put stock in either.
I accept that societal morality and subjective personal morality are things that appear to exist, but also accept that the nihilists have a point and that it isn't really a real tangible thing that has any universal actual force behind it or whatever, and isn't based in reality, but is rather a social construct.

I also agree with them to that extent, but I by no means think it's pointless or meaningless. Nihilism can lead to a dangerous way of thinking, I feel. It's human nature to reify mental concepts. It probably helps us to make sense of the world around us.

[Ostroeuropa]

Objective morality isn't one I put stock in either.
I accept that societal morality and subjective personal morality are things that appear to exist, but also accept that the nihilists have a point and that it isn't really a real tangible thing that has any universal actual force behind it or whatever, and isn't based in reality, but is rather a social construct.

Not to mention that the premise of objective reasoning to any degree can be comparable to morality is hogwash.

Yep.

It's what I consider one of the basic tenets of a civilized society.

I absolutely agree. It's no coincidence that there's a correlation between progressive policies in equality and the separate of church and state.

It could well be a coincidence. (ish.)
I've previously outlined the basis for a liberal-leftist religion that got made up for some RP gamers I'm with.


I think it comes down to power and institutions, and the propogation of memes.

A reactionary, overly militant and controlling ideology happens to be... well, pretty good at propagating itself over large amounts of area and peoples, if it has the force to back it up.

This would naturally mean that most of the major world religions happen to be pretty tyrannical and oppressive. Seperating them from the state would then, obviously, mean a slide into less regressive, controlling, and militant tendencies.

But compare that to say, a society which was somehow institutionally Jainist, and the jains had, somehow, acquired a fucktonne of land, resources, and people. It wouldn't be quite as bad.

Finally, contrast that to Simurghianism. (The made up RP religion.)

Where the notion of infringing on the activities of consenting adults is extremely sinful, etc.
(The big lulz being that Simurghianism is still militant and expansionist as fuck, and encourages adherents as individuals to go on norse style raids of despotic countries to kidnap and sacrifice their government officials, etc, and as such could feasible expand. Hence the "Coincidence." it's a "Coincidence" that all our religions happen to be conservative, reactionary militant, instead of Liberal militant. Liberal militancy would need a mystical narrative and a justification, but that's simple enough when you're pulling stuff out of your ass like the religions tend to.)

[Hurdegaryp]

Yuuuuuuuuup

Good evening sirs and madames, how may I help you? With the recent ruling in the Supreme Court and the endorsement by Obama, we've been forced to stop stocking any goods classified as "assault keyboards". However, if you have a keyboard license - or a concealed carry keyboard license, of course - we can still sell you a battery-powered keyboard. It has to be reloaded after every use, but it offers all the stopping power of your average assault keyboard. In the everyday civilian world, it's likely that you'll have plenty of time to reload after getting a few shots off.

I'm afraid we no longer stock replica keyboards or keyboard-mimicking toys and sportsgoods, out of concern for possible confusion in the wider world between these facsimiles and real keyboards.

We don't stock military keyboards, or military-style keyboards, due to concerns raised by the local government, but we can point you to private dealers offering surplus military keyboards. You would have to be registered on a voluntary industry registrar, though. Privately kept, of course, to protect our responsible keyboard owners from vigilante keyboard-toting criminals.

And thus it came to pass that people started to stockpile keyboards for the expected internet struggle to come.

[Geanna]

Yuuuuuuuuup

Good evening sirs and madames, how may I help you? With the recent ruling in the Supreme Court and the endorsement by Obama, we've been forced to stop stocking any goods classified as "assault keyboards". However, if you have a keyboard license - or a concealed carry keyboard license, of course - we can still sell you a battery-powered keyboard. It has to be reloaded after every use, but it offers all the stopping power of your average assault keyboard. In the everyday civilian world, it's likely that you'll have plenty of time to reload after getting a few shots off.

I'm afraid we no longer stock replica keyboards or keyboard-mimicking toys and sportsgoods, out of concern for possible confusion in the wider world between these facsimiles and real keyboards.

We don't stock military keyboards, or military-style keyboards, due to concerns raised by the local government, but we can point you to private dealers offering surplus military keyboards. You would have to be registered on a voluntary industry registrar, though. Privately kept, of course, to protect our responsible keyboard owners from vigilante keyboard-toting criminals.

That was amazing.