Replace the UN with something not involving Russia?

[Insaeldor]

Kick the Russians out? No

End the Veto Role? Yes

You'll basically get the same results without the political controversy.

[Mysterious Stranger 2]

The point of the UN is to prevent world wars, a task which seems more necessary when world powers are getting militaristic, not less.

[The Conez Imperium]

You know, the League of Nations refused to accept Russia...didn't work out too well.

Also the name is United Nations, inferring all nations. If you want a victors club make your own.

[The Two Jerseys]

First, this is so hilariously biased. It's a cold warrior-esque mentality. Russia could easily say the same thing, by saying "The US invaded Iraq, a country that never attacked them, on bullshit charges. We should make an organization without them in it."

The thing about the CIS is that the other members are so useless that they make the laziest NATO members look like they pull their own weight in comparison.

[New Werpland]

The UN should be based on the principles of Liberal Democracy, therefor Russia should have no representation until they purge themselves of their idiocy.

[Divitaen]

If you kick Russia out of the UN, the UN might as well not exist. The whole point of an international organization is to create a platform for discussion and action on a global scale, and to have some consensus-building to set global and international norms on human rights, international humanitarian law, the environment, economic development and what not. If you get rid of one of the world's biggest geo-political players, everything done by the UN will be done without the approval or involvement of Russia, and it defeats the point of trying to bring the world together. Can you imagine if the UNSC conducted actions explicitly opposed by Russia? It could literally end up being UN organisations against Russia.

[The Conez Imperium]

The UN should be based on the principles of Liberal Democracy, therefor Russia should have no representation until they purge themselves of their idiocy.

We should kick out China too. They're not democratic enough to be recognised in the United Nations. How dare they have a different system of government.

[Geilinor]

I dislike Russia's foreign policy, but kicking it out of the UN or its replacement is going too far.

[The United Remnants of America]

First, this is so hilariously biased. It's a cold warrior-esque mentality. Russia could easily say the same thing, by saying "The US invaded Iraq, a country that never attacked them, on bullshit charges. We should make an organization without them in it."

Secondly, this is a bad idea. Isolating Russia even more won't make things better.

US intelligence screwed up on WMDs, and many Americans wanted the US to liberate Iraq but didn't think it through. Pushing it as it is, but still a whole different ball game than what Russia's doing.

Isn't it the influence of Russia that's preventing the UN from investigating the crash site to prove it was the separatists who did it? Replacing that with an organization that won't let Russia obstruct justice sounds like an improvement to me.

That's not how that works. That's not how any of that works.

The organization would ask nicely if they could please investigate the crash site, and then Russia, now pissed off at being excluded from the lunch table, would still say no and prevent the site from being thoroughly investigated.

And then, after Russia says no, what? We nuke them and go to war to investigate the crash site?

Besides, the site's already been investigated pretty well, and if it hasn't been proven, then it has at least been very highly supposed that it was the separatists. There's no way around it and there's not much argument against it.

[New Werpland]

The UN should be based on the principles of Liberal Democracy, therefor Russia should have no representation until they purge themselves of their idiocy.

We should kick out China too. They're not democratic enough to be recognised in the United Nations. How dare they have a different system of government.

Yes completely true, and your attempt at irony is just pointless western self skepticism considering the stuff that China most likely does to it's citizens.

[The United Remnants of America]

We should kick out China too. They're not democratic enough to be recognised in the United Nations. How dare they have a different system of government.

Yes completely true, and your attempt at irony is just pointless western self skepticism considering the stuff that China most likely does to it's citizens.

What they do to their citizens is probably no worse than what a decent amount of other nations do to their citizens.

Remember, Rwanda, South Africa, North Korea, Somalia, etc. are all in the UN as well, and have no better track records for safety and treatment of people within their borders.

[New Werpland]

Yes completely true, and your attempt at irony is just pointless western self skepticism considering the stuff that China most likely does to it's citizens.

What they do to their citizens is probably no worse than what a decent amount of other nations do to their citizens.

Remember, Rwanda, South Africa, North Korea, Somalia, etc. are all in the UN as well, and have no better track records for safety and treatment of people within their borders.

Kick them out or force them to change as well, I'm not asking for democracy as much as for respect of civil rights and life in general.

[The Liberated Territories]

Kicking out Russia is bound to make them more pissed, something we don't want at the moment.

[The United Remnants of America]

What they do to their citizens is probably no worse than what a decent amount of other nations do to their citizens.

Remember, Rwanda, South Africa, North Korea, Somalia, etc. are all in the UN as well, and have no better track records for safety and treatment of people within their borders.

Kick them out or force them to change as well, I'm not asking for democracy as much as for respect of civil rights and life in general.

Then you're not the UN and there's no point to anything like it existing.

[Ardoki]

Because Russia has a massive geopolitical role in the region, controls about an eighth of the land surface of the earth, and has the 6th largest GDP per capita and the 15th largest nominal GDP (IMF). The UN is supposed to be a forum for the peaceful resolution of conflict, not an alliance. If you're looking for an organization to combat the influence of Russia or to defend against Russia, it's called NATO.

In short, that would be absurd.

No it doesn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita

[New Werpland]

Kick them out or force them to change as well, I'm not asking for democracy as much as for respect of civil rights and life in general.

Then you're not the UN and there's no point to anything like it existing.

Yes I'm not exactly pleased with the UN, it'd be better if they changed the entire thing.

[The United Remnants of America]

Then you're not the UN and there's no point to anything like it existing.

Yes I'm not exactly pleased with the UN, it'd be better if they changed the entire thing.

Yes, we all know that the UN is ineffective and is a sham.

Please, tell us how you plan to remake the UN to make it more effective. And no, NWO is not an applicable idea.

[Anarre]

This is as a good idea as saying "Replace the UN with something not involving the United States" after the invasion of Iraq.

[Fralinia]

That's... not how the UN works. Like, at all.

The UN is a replacement for the former League of Nations, an organization that was the brainchild of Wilson and several others present at the drafting of the Treaty of Versailles in 1919. The League was never joined by a number of nations (notably, the United States) and never had much power at all, but it wasn't supposed to be a powerful entity- it was supposed to be a forum for international diplomacy, where nations with disagreements could discuss things in a civil manner with mediators present.

The UN is a much more comprehensive, rather more powerful version of the League of Nations. It is a supranational organization tasked with maintaining the world in the most peaceful and healthy state possible. It is also a forum for international discussion, albeit with some very particular countries getting to do most of the discussing, and it is important that it remains a place where countries, especially ones that aren't particularly nice to each other, can come to discuss things.

If we turn the UN into some kind of cool kid's club for liberal democracies, we've managed to defeat the point. Such a club already exists, it is called NATO, and it consists of a number of countries that signed a piece of paper and agree to be free and happy and cool and to annoy the hell out of Russia every chance they get, to the point that Russia now threatens to point nukes at countries that are only thinking about joining NATO.

The UN is for international diplomacy. Kicking a major power out of a diplomatic organization when the thing it and it's neighbors need most is sound, mediated diplomacy is absurd.

[The United Remnants of America]

This seems to sum up the general consensus.

[Liberty and Linguistics]

See, that would defeat the whole purpose of the organization.

It's purpose failed miserably, might as well scrap it or reform it.

Until then, I'll continue to sip my beer and grumble.

[Pandeeria]

A year ago, Russian-backed separatists in Ukraine shot down a civilian airplane, killing hundreds of people.

And yet, today, Russia still has a role in the UN.

I'm not privy to the details, other than that the UN supposedly doesn't have the authority to just kick a country out just like that. If that's the case, why not just start over, and create an organization for the express purpose of keeping Russia from having a role in it?

First, this is so hilariously biased. It's a cold warrior-esque mentality. Russia could easily say the same thing, by saying "The US invaded Iraq, a country that never attacked them, on bullshit charges. We should make an organization without them in it."

They could. The funny thing though is probably only Russia and fucking Belarus would be in that organization.

Unfortunately for Russia, the US has so many allies, allies which make up the majority of the world's industry, development, and economic well being along with military ferocity.

I would be upset with how the current state of affairs of the world strongly favors that of the US and her allies, but then I remember that Russia is still a right-wing, semi-authoritarian state that is ruled by a homophobic, wannabe Imperialist that stills dreams of Russia having an actual influence on the international community on the scale that the USSR had.

Russia should liberalize, and learn to just get along with and comply (to a certain extent) with the US. Won't happen under Putin, but it's honestly in Russia's best interests to do so.

[New Grestin]

I think Russia's as backwards as the next guy, but kicking them out of the UN seems a bit extreme.

They're homophobic, war-mongering jerks, but they're our homophobic war-mongering jerks.

[Amuaplye]

Agreed.

[The Alma Mater]

A year ago, Russian-backed separatists in Ukraine shot down a civilian airplane, killing hundreds of people.

And yet, today, Russia still has a role in the UN.

I'm not privy to the details, other than that the UN supposedly doesn't have the authority to just kick a country out just like that. If that's the case, why not just start over, and create an organization for the express purpose of keeping Russia from having a role in it?

Were these separatists backed by the Russian government?

Aside from receiving equipment, training, intel and recruiting opportunities - no.