Replace the UN with something not involving Russia?

[The Carlisle]

Uh, because over a hundred civilians who weren't even part of the warzone were killed?

Well perhaps if those in charge of the company decided to not fly the goddamn plane over an active warzone then those civilians would still be very much living.

How about this. How about the rebels not fuck around with dangerous weaponry that they can't use and not indentify a fucking jet airliner of all things, and kill hundreds of people in their extreme negligence.

Let's not victim blame and actually blame the people who committed mass negligent homicide.

[Bojikami]

Well perhaps if those in charge of the company decided to not fly the goddamn plane over an active warzone then those civilians would still be very much living.

How about this. How about the rebels not fuck around with dangerous weaponry that they can't use and not indentify a fucking jet airliner of all things, and kill hundreds of people in their extreme negligence.

Let's not victim blame and actually blame the people who committed mass negligent homicide.

Actually, I am not saying it is the fault of the people on the plane, or the pilots, I am putting the blame on the idiots who told them to fly over the area regardless of it being an active warzone.

[Kvatchdom]

No. Bad. We need some cooperation between the superpowers.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

How about this. How about the rebels not fuck around with dangerous weaponry that they can't use and not indentify a fucking jet airliner of all things, and kill hundreds of people in their extreme negligence.

Let's not victim blame and actually blame the people who committed mass negligent homicide.

Actually, I am not saying it is the fault of the people on the plane, or the pilots, I am putting the blame on the idiots who told them to fly over the area regardless of it being an active warzone.

Some blame for negligence might befall tham, sure. But those would be secondary to the prime. The people actually firing a rocket at a cruising jet airliner are the prime responsible for what happened. Others are merely subsistutes.

[Palakistan]

But it can have consequences. After the Iraq Invasion, the US began losing power. The Iraq Invasion, March 20th, 2003, marks the beginning of the downfall of the American Hegemony. As far as consequences go, that one has to hurt.

I'm sure people said the same thing about the US at the end of the Vietnam war, but the US recovered quite well by the Gulf War and gained the most power from the collapse of the USSR. I'm sure the Iraq war isn't as damaging to the US as people like to think. The benefit from all the US interventions overseas is that it is the country with the most experience at fighting modern conventional wars and insurgencies than any other nation today bar none and has developed better equipment and tactics from the experience.

The main reason why the US seems weaker now is because Obama is at the helm. Once he's gone and a Republican is in- there can be a new pursuit of a "peace through strength" platform.

I wonder if Donald Trump can do the trick. I hope so. That other democrat lady ain't gonna do squat to help out nation.

[Imperializt Russia]

Uh, because over a hundred civilians who weren't even part of the warzone were killed?

Well perhaps if those in charge of the company decided to not fly the goddamn plane over an active warzone then those civilians would still be very much living.

If your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle.

Airlines that chose to reroute around Ukraine rerouted over fucking Syria. Three other companies in addition to Malaysian did not reroute over Ukraine. One was an Indian carrier who sent an aircraft along the same flight path as MH17 about half an hour previously. About three hours before that, an Aeroflot commercial flight flew the same path in the opposite direction.

[Imperializt Russia]

Well perhaps if those in charge of the company decided to not fly the goddamn plane over an active warzone then those civilians would still be very much living.

How about this. How about the rebels not fuck around with dangerous weaponry that they can't use and not indentify a fucking jet airliner of all things, and kill hundreds of people in their extreme negligence.

Let's not victim blame and actually blame the people who committed mass negligent homicide.

A Boeing 727 has a radar cross section of about 20 square metres frontally. The rebel groups believed they were engaging a Ukrainian air force An-26, which is approximate in size, were operating in that region, and had been shot down in the preceding days.

It's actually very difficult to identify contacts you pick up on radar.

[The Carlisle]

How about this. How about the rebels not fuck around with dangerous weaponry that they can't use and not indentify a fucking jet airliner of all things, and kill hundreds of people in their extreme negligence.

Let's not victim blame and actually blame the people who committed mass negligent homicide.

A Boeing 727 has a radar cross section of about 20 square metres frontally. The rebel groups believed they were engaging a Ukrainian air force An-26, which is approximate in size, were operating in that region, and had been shot down in the preceding days.

It's actually very difficult to identify contacts you pick up on radar.

Which makes it all the more reason for them to not use dangerous weaponry when they don't know how to properly identify targets.

[Imperializt Russia]

A Boeing 727 has a radar cross section of about 20 square metres frontally. The rebel groups believed they were engaging a Ukrainian air force An-26, which is approximate in size, were operating in that region, and had been shot down in the preceding days.

It's actually very difficult to identify contacts you pick up on radar.

Which makes it all the more reason for them to not use dangerous weaponry when they don't know how to properly identify targets.

The United States Navy shot down an Iranian passenger airliner after misidentifying it as an Iranian F-14 that was believed to be on some description of attack vector.

[The Carlisle]

Which makes it all the more reason for them to not use dangerous weaponry when they don't know how to properly identify targets.

The United States Navy shot down an Iranian passenger airliner after misidentifying it as an Iranian F-14 that was believed to be on some description of attack vector.

Yes. They are at fault for shooting it down, they apologized for it. Why bring it up?

Just because the US did it doesn't mean that I'm gonna put less blame on them for killing civilians. "It's hard' is not a excuse for me.

[Imperializt Russia]

The United States Navy shot down an Iranian passenger airliner after misidentifying it as an Iranian F-14 that was believed to be on some description of attack vector.

Yes. They are at fault for shooting it down, they apologized for it. Why bring it up?

Just because the US did it doesn't mean that I'm gonna put less blame on them for killing civilians. "It's hard' is not a excuse for me.

I never said we should absolve them of blame.
I never said anything of the sort. In any vague or direct context.

"They shouldn't be using this until they know how to use it!" is a redundant argument that doesn't do anything. They do know how to use it. They used it to bring down several Ukrainian air force aircraft. They also used it to shoot down a passenger aircraft.

[The Carlisle]

Yes. They are at fault for shooting it down, they apologized for it. Why bring it up?

Just because the US did it doesn't mean that I'm gonna put less blame on them for killing civilians. "It's hard' is not a excuse for me.

I never said we should absolve them of blame.
I never said anything of the sort. In any vague or direct context.

"They shouldn't be using this until they know how to use it!" is a redundant argument that doesn't do anything. They do know how to use it. They used it to bring down several Ukrainian air force aircraft. They also used it to shoot down a passenger aircraft.

Source on Ukrainian Air Force Aircraft being shot down by the Buk?

Nevermind. Found something after a bit of searching. Question was asked because of other anti-aircraft equipment they had in possession.

I agree then. They might know how to operate it. It still doesn't excuse it for me.

[Imperializt Russia]

I never said we should absolve them of blame.
I never said anything of the sort. In any vague or direct context.

"They shouldn't be using this until they know how to use it!" is a redundant argument that doesn't do anything. They do know how to use it. They used it to bring down several Ukrainian air force aircraft. They also used it to shoot down a passenger aircraft.

Source on Ukrainian Air Force Aircraft being shot down by the Buk?

Nevermind. Found something after a bit of searching. Question was asked because of other anti-aircraft equipment they had in possession.

I agree then. They might know how to operate it. It still doesn't excuse it for me.

Did I ever say it did?

[The Carlisle]

Source on Ukrainian Air Force Aircraft being shot down by the Buk?

Nevermind. Found something after a bit of searching. Question was asked because of other anti-aircraft equipment they had in possession.

I agree then. They might know how to operate it. It still doesn't excuse it for me.

Did I ever say it did?

No, I'm just saying.

[Enchanted Germany]

The UN should retain Russia. All nations deserve a chance to be in the UN. It is supposed to be a grouping of all the world's nations. Russia has as much of a right to be in the UN as the United States. All nations should work together to resolve their differences. The UN is a good place to do that.

[Novorobo]

And now Russia has vetoed investigation of MH17.

At the very least, does the UN have the authority to strip Russia of its veto power?

[Conalia]

And now Russia has vetoed investigation of MH17.

At the very least, does the UN have the authority to strip Russia of its veto power?

Nope, because they would have to pass a resolution that is voted upon by Russia. As much as I like Russia, they shouldn't have veto power. In fact, no one should have veto power on the SC.

[Ayothaya]

A year ago, Russian-backed separatists in Ukraine shot down a civilian airplane, killing hundreds of people.

All of the permanent security council members have blood on their hands. Do you propose kicking the other four countries out as well? Or are you just Russophobic?

[Saint-Thor]

The US veto'ed a lot of peace resolutions between Israel and Palestine. Should we kick a nation everytime she vetos something that goes against our interests?

The United States Navy shot down an Iranian passenger airliner after misidentifying it as an Iranian F-14 that was believed to be on some description of attack vector.

Yes. They are at fault for shooting it down, they apologized for it. Why bring it up?

They never apologized. They gave reparation 8 years later just to drop the case before the International court of justice. Maybe the Russians should wait that long before doing anything?

[Harkback Union]

And now Russia has vetoed investigation of MH17.

At the very least, does the UN have the authority to strip Russia of its veto power?

They didn't veto the investigation of MH17. They vetoed the proscecution of the people the US accused of shooting down MH17. There is 0, 0 credible evidence as to who shot down MH17, just as there was no Evidence of Assad gassing his own civilians or Saddam's WMDs or who opened fire first on Maidan square, yet everyone in the western media was 100% sure about it.

In fact, the Russians supported the idea of an international body investigating into the matter.

[Kubra]

The United States Navy shot down an Iranian passenger airliner after misidentifying it as an Iranian F-14 that was believed to be on some description of attack vector.

Yes. They are at fault for shooting it down, they apologized for it. Why bring it up?

Just because the US did it doesn't mean that I'm gonna put less blame on them for killing civilians. "It's hard' is not a excuse for me.

Well, if that's the case, you can't excuse any act of war either offensively or defensively, so why condemn one particular perpetrator among all others?

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

And now Russia has vetoed investigation of MH17.

At the very least, does the UN have the authority to strip Russia of its veto power?

Difficult. Article 23 of the UN charter states the following:
"The Security Council consists of fifteen members of the United Nations. The Chinese Republic, France, the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America are permanent members of the Security Counil. [...]"

Article 27 states the following
"1. Every member of the security council has one vote
2. Decisions of the Security Council of procedural matters are accepted when nine members vote for
3. Decisions of the Security Council about all other matters are accepted when nine members, among which all permanent members, vote for a proposal. [...]"

So, there is no mention of a veto in the charter. It's an implicit veto, as one might call it. Anyway, to get Russia out of the Security Council (whether that is a good thing at all is not the question) one would need to change article 23 of the charter, to exclude Russia. Expelling them from the UN is not enough, as article 23 protects their permanent membership. Now, changing the UN Charter is a right pain in the arse. A conference needs to be called for such, and 2/3rds of the member nations, together with nine votes from the Security Council. In such a matter, there is no implicit veto for the permanent members, but one would still need 2/3rds of all nations to 1. Redraft article 23, and 2. Kick Russia out of the UN. Both require a supermajority. So, yes, it's possible, but impractical. Anyway, I don't think we'd want to, anyway,

[Imperializt Russia]

And now Russia has vetoed investigation of MH17.

At the very least, does the UN have the authority to strip Russia of its veto power?

Russia has a veto because it's one of the five original nuclear club members.
That veto exists to prevent the likelihood of nuclear escalation.

[The Foxes Swamp]

everyone has to be involved but everyone must have an equal vote but then everyone has to comply as well not just when it suits them.

[Socialist Tera]

How about we replace the UN and put new headquarters in Cuba to piss off America instead?