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On the pathological need to divide politics into "right" and

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Ashworth-Attwater
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On the pathological need to divide politics into "right" and

Postby Ashworth-Attwater » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:42 am

So, my country has gotten very politicized lately and needless to say, this has brought a lot of idiots into politics. Many, if not most of them, have an OCD-like necessity to classify simply everything into "right-wing" and "left-wing". For example, I've been called a left-winger for believing that marijuana should be legal despite identifying myself as a liberal conservative. Many of them seem to believe that support for archetypal left-wing positions such as gay marriage or the welfare state equals support for the left, and support for the left equals support for all kinds of left, from Olof Palme to Mao Zedong. Furthermore, there's also people who believe that left-wing governments and right-wing governments can be told apart by their degree of economic interventionism, with the right-wing being the ones who intervene the least and the left-wing ones the most. These people would argue that Clement Atlee and Mussolini were both left-wing because both were "statists". So, NSG, what do you think of this? Is the "left-right" spectrum even accurate nowadays? Can we divide all the policies we support into right-wing or left-wing? Is pizza left-wing or right-wing?
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Fremont Forest
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Postby Fremont Forest » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:50 am

Politics exists on too many dimensions to be truly expressed as a spectrum, although there are definitely strong correlations between certain positions which makes it a useful tool in many circumstances.

The biggest problem is nobody can really agree about what separates left and right, which leads to the kinds of mischaracterizations described in the OP

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:53 am

I'd say pizza is left wing.

Although the toppings are usually separated into different classes, the classes are generally really close together and usually the organizing person tries to make sure the toppings are spread evenly so the flavor blends together into a single unified tastiness. Usually, the toppings are also put on in no particular order, so it's really more of an accident that there are classes at all, given there is no deliberate attempt by the organizer to maintain a certain class structure.
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:56 am

Ashworth-Attwater wrote:...identifying myself as a liberal conservative...

A liberal conservative.

A liberal conservative.

What in the name of all that is good and true is a liberal conservative?

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New DeCapito
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Postby New DeCapito » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:58 am

Whoever would have forgotten about the Political Compass test?
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Immoren
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Postby Immoren » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:00 am

Ifreann wrote:
Ashworth-Attwater wrote:...identifying myself as a liberal conservative...

A liberal conservative.

A liberal conservative.

What in the name of all that is good and true is a liberal conservative?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_conservatism
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Replevion
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Postby Replevion » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:01 am

Ifreann wrote:
Ashworth-Attwater wrote:...identifying myself as a liberal conservative...

A liberal conservative.

A liberal conservative.

What in the name of all that is good and true is a liberal conservative?


That's probably how a lot of people see libertarians.
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Ashworth-Attwater
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Postby Ashworth-Attwater » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:08 am

Replevion wrote:That's probably how a lot of people see libertarians.


I'm as far from a libertarian as it gets.
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The Liberated Territories
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:11 am

Replevion wrote:
Ifreann wrote:A liberal conservative.

A liberal conservative.

What in the name of all that is good and true is a liberal conservative?


That's probably how a lot of people see libertarians.


Nah.

It depends on the country, but for the most part "liberal conservatives" are your one-nation conservatives; extremely paternalistic and nanny-like, horribly disgusting imo.
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Postby L Ron Cupboard » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:12 am

I see pizzas more as a coalition between liberals, communists, and greens.
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Postby Meridiani Planum » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:13 am

Ashworth-Attwater wrote:
Replevion wrote:That's probably how a lot of people see libertarians.


I'm as far from a libertarian as it gets.


You're an authoritarian? A totalitarian?
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:19 am

Replevion wrote:
Ifreann wrote:A liberal conservative.

A liberal conservative.

What in the name of all that is good and true is a liberal conservative?


That's probably how a lot of people see libertarians.

Yeah, it is what I was going to say.
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Ashworth-Attwater
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Postby Ashworth-Attwater » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:20 am

Meridiani Planum wrote:You're an authoritarian? A totalitarian?


Neither. I'm not a libertarian as in I don't advocate laissez-faire economics, I'm not a minarchist, etc.
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Sam Hyde
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Postby Sam Hyde » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:24 am

Meh. I identify as far-right, but it can be confusing, because then people assume I support my nation's right-wing party, even though I hate them.
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Hirota
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Postby Hirota » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:25 am

Political spectrum is too one-dimensional, the political compass is hardly any better in two dimensions.

We need a political tesseract. Only then can we truly represent political ideologies in four dimensions.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:26 am

Immoren wrote:
Ifreann wrote:A liberal conservative.

A liberal conservative.

What in the name of all that is good and true is a liberal conservative?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_conservatism

I hate this language sometimes.

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Immoren
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Postby Immoren » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:27 am

Ifreann wrote:

I hate this language sometimes.


Yes
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discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

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Postby Kinckobanina and Wherpvelna » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:05 am

Meridiani Planum wrote:
Ashworth-Attwater wrote:
I'm as far from a libertarian as it gets.


You're an authoritarian? A totalitarian?

Communitarian most likely.
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The New Sea Territory
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:10 am

Ashworth-Attwater wrote:So, my country has gotten very politicized lately and needless to say, this has brought a lot of idiots into politics. Many, if not most of them, have an OCD-like necessity to classify simply everything into "right-wing" and "left-wing". For example, I've been called a left-winger for believing that marijuana should be legal despite identifying myself as a liberal conservative.


Yes, dualistic worldview of many people ignorant of economics or political philosophy leads to this problem. "Left" and "right" should not be concrete terms. They have very loose definitions.

Many of them seem to believe that support for archetypal left-wing positions such as gay marriage or the welfare state equals support for the left, and support for the left equals support for all kinds of left, from Olof Palme to Mao Zedong


The welfare state isn't really an "archetypal" left-wing position, unless you live in America.

Furthermore, there's also people who believe that left-wing governments and right-wing governments can be told apart by their degree of economic interventionism, with the right-wing being the ones who intervene the least and the left-wing ones the most.


Too vague to be taken seriously.

These people would argue that Clement Atlee and Mussolini were both left-wing because both were "statists"


...and that would be beyond absurd.
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Postby Shilya » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:14 am

It's branding, creating and maintaining an idendity, both done by politicians so their voters are clear on what they're promised to get, and by voters themselves, for their own social context. It's most definitly easier to just divide the world in left and right, requires less thought, and it gives people are clear enemy, and a clear "us" feeling within their own group, both things people appreciate a lot. It also helps that you can "brand" your opposite ideology as something your voter would hate, which is how you get people to vote against their interest, but for their brand, idendity and groupthink overruling logic.
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Postby MERIZoC » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:16 am

Given the inherent inequality with how cheese is distributed atop the pizza, I'd peg it as right wing, though the multicultural attitudes of some pizzas with regards to toppings could put it on the social left.

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Cyrisnia
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Postby Cyrisnia » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:34 am

Merizoc wrote:Given the inherent inequality with how cheese is distributed atop the pizza, I'd peg it as right wing, though the multicultural attitudes of some pizzas with regards to toppings could put it on the social left.

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The Liberated Territories
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:22 pm

I consider both "right" and "left" wing inappropriate as far as my ideology goes. Nothing really pigeon holes me into either category.

Rather, I consider myself as a radical centrist instead.
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Postby BK117B2 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:25 pm

Ashworth-Attwater wrote:
Meridiani Planum wrote:You're an authoritarian? A totalitarian?


Neither. I'm not a libertarian as in I don't advocate laissez-faire economics, I'm not a minarchist, etc.


So apathetic towards politics, government, and law

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Calimera II
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Postby Calimera II » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:32 pm

Where are you from?

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