Rome vs. North Korea

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Even if they run out of gas for their trucks, they would still be able to do better than donkey carriages.

I don't use oil for fuel, but I am still a modern ship for the purposes of this debate. Steam trains also don't use oil. It's traditional to use coal, but you technically could use wood-fired boilers to run steam-powered machinery if you had that much trouble finding oil or coal. You can also use vegetable oil to run an engine.

Steam-powered combat vehicles are a really terrible idea. Fuel takes up too much space, they're useless until they build up a full head of steam (which could take hours from a cold start), and the exhaust and blow-off steam is a huge tactical disadvantage.

Using your food to produce fuel also poses some problems.

If you have no other options, then you must use the methods available to you no matter how inefficient they are.

[USS Monitor]

Even if they run out of gas for their trucks, they would still be able to do better than donkey carriages.

I don't use oil for fuel, but I am still a modern ship for the purposes of this debate. Steam trains also don't use oil. It's traditional to use coal, but you technically could use wood-fired boilers to run steam-powered machinery if you had that much trouble finding oil or coal. You can also use vegetable oil to run an engine.

Steam-powered combat vehicles are a really terrible idea. Fuel takes up too much space, they're useless until they build up a full head of steam (which could take hours from a cold start), and the exhaust and blow-off steam is a huge tactical disadvantage.

Using your food to produce fuel also poses some problems.

"A really terrible idea" by modern standards is not the same thing as being useless against armies from 2000 years ago. I have lots of problems, but I could still beat the crap out of the ships the Romans had.

And we were partly talking about logistics, where steam powered vehicles are definitely an improvement over donkeys.

[The Two Jerseys]

And we were partly talking about logistics, where steam powered vehicles are definitely an improvement over donkeys.

Depends on how much of the payload capacity is taken up by their own fuel supply. There gets to be a point where a mule team pulling a wagon would have an advantage.

[Napkiraly]

They only way the Romans could win is if they managed to get their hands on some of North Korea's equipment and learned how to operate it.

As I said earlier NK is very, very bribable.

Getting their hands on it doesn't mean they'll know how to operate it, keep it maintained, or let alone how to make the ammo. Furthermore, if anything NK officers would just take the money and laugh considering they'd realise rather fast into the invasion that they were going to win. Wiping out entire legions with little to no losses will generally create this feeling.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

And we were partly talking about logistics, where steam powered vehicles are definitely an improvement over donkeys.

Depends on how much of the payload capacity is taken up by their own fuel supply. There gets to be a point where a mule team pulling a wagon would have an advantage.

What? These are steam trains. We used steam trains for a century.

[Napkiraly]

And we were partly talking about logistics, where steam powered vehicles are definitely an improvement over donkeys.

Depends on how much of the payload capacity is taken up by their own fuel supply. There gets to be a point where a mule team pulling a wagon would have an advantage.

Over trains and river boats?

[USS Monitor]

And we were partly talking about logistics, where steam powered vehicles are definitely an improvement over donkeys.

Depends on how much of the payload capacity is taken up by their own fuel supply. There gets to be a point where a mule team pulling a wagon would have an advantage.

I'm pretty sure NK could come up with something that works better than mules. It wasn't that hard even for 19th century people, and NK certainly knows things that we didn't -- like better metallurgy, which makes it easier to keep the weight of the vehicles down.

[FutureAmerica]

NK would destroy Rome. NK has a million man army, bigger than any Roman army. No comparison. North Korea is a match for modern Italy's military.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

NK would destroy Rome. NK has a million man army, bigger than any Roman army.

I concur, mein freun-

No comparison. North Korea is a match for modern Italy's military.

Nopenopenope.

[FutureAmerica]

NK would destroy Rome. NK has a million man army, bigger than any Roman army.

I concur, mein freun-

No comparison. North Korea is a match for modern Italy's military.

Nopenopenope.

NK has nukes, Italy does not. NK has a much larger army and armor corps than Italy. Italians like to surrender, more than the French.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

I concur, mein freun-

Nopenopenope.

NK has nukes, Italy does not.

Pizza.

NK has a much larger army and armor corps than Italy.

Pizza.

Italians like to surrender, more than the French.

Bologna.

[The Two Jerseys]

Depends on how much of the payload capacity is taken up by their own fuel supply. There gets to be a point where a mule team pulling a wagon would have an advantage.

Over trains and river boats?

Steamboats can only go where the rivers go, and trains can't run without tracks.

Gaul has no railroads, and you still need to get supplies from the river to the army in the field. That means either trucks or wagons. Steam-powered trucks are feasible, but their fuel is heavy and bulky, and supplying their fuel would reduce the amount of supplies that you can deliver to the battlefield.

So yes, a mule team isn't such a bad thing to have.

[The Ik Ka Ek Akai]

NK probably has taller people.

Lolwut

Modern North Koreans are generally malnourished, and a significant size difference can be seen between North and South Koreans because of it. Romans, meanwhile, had an army standard that said recruits had to be minimum of 5 feet, 7 inches. That's a minimum, mind you. Modern North Korean males average at 5 feet, 5 inches, while South Koreans average at 6 feet, 1 inch.

And that's discussing Italians, not even going into the Germanic and Gaulish soldiers that the Romans would have conscripted, who were generally called giants by Romans.

[Washington Resistance Army]

No comparison. North Korea is a match for modern Italy's military.

Nopenopenope.

Yesyesyesyes.

[CSS Merrimack]

NK probably has taller people.

Lolwut

Modern North Koreans are generally malnourished, and a significant size difference can be seen between North and South Koreans because of it. Romans, meanwhile, had an army standard that said recruits had to be minimum of 5 feet, 7 inches. That's a minimum, mind you. Modern North Korean males average at 5 feet, 5 inches, while South Koreans average at 6 feet, 1 inch.

South Korean males average at 5 feet 7 inches. Also 5 feet 10 inches would be considered rather tall during ancient times (and into the middle ages) and thus would probably be the ball park for the Gauls and Germans. Your average Roman was probably a bit taller than your average North Korean however...

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Lolwut

Modern North Koreans are generally malnourished, and a significant size difference can be seen between North and South Koreans because of it. Romans, meanwhile, had an army standard that said recruits had to be minimum of 5 feet, 7 inches. That's a minimum, mind you. Modern North Korean males average at 5 feet, 5 inches, while South Koreans average at 6 feet, 1 inch.

South Korean males average at 5 feet 7 inches. Also 5 feet 10 inches would be considered rather tall during ancient times (and into the middle ages) and thus would probably be the ball park for the Gauls and Germans. Your average Roman was probably a bit taller than your average North Korean however...

Monitor has a challenger!

[CSS Merrimack]

South Korean males average at 5 feet 7 inches. Also 5 feet 10 inches would be considered rather tall during ancient times (and into the middle ages) and thus would probably be the ball park for the Gauls and Germans. Your average Roman was probably a bit taller than your average North Korean however...

Monitor has a challenger!

What do you me- *looks through thread*


You...

[CSS Merrimack]

Over trains and river boats?

Steamboats can only go where the rivers go, and trains can't run without tracks.

Gaul has no railroads, and you still need to get supplies from the river to the army in the field. That means either trucks or wagons. Steam-powered trucks are feasible, but their fuel is heavy and bulky, and supplying their fuel would reduce the amount of supplies that you can deliver to the battlefield.

So yes, a mule team isn't such a bad thing to have.

I'll have you know that the people who made me laid down railroad tracks in places where there were once none. I'm pretty sure North Koreans could do the same.

[Kalmarium]

South Korean males average at 5 feet 7 inches. Also 5 feet 10 inches would be considered rather tall during ancient times (and into the middle ages) and thus would probably be the ball park for the Gauls and Germans. Your average Roman was probably a bit taller than your average North Korean however...

Monitor has a challenger!

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Monitor has a challenger!

What do you me- *looks through thread*


You...

Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Over trains and river boats?

Steamboats can only go where the rivers go, and trains can't run without tracks.

Then build tracks.

[The Two Jerseys]

Steamboats can only go where the rivers go, and trains can't run without tracks.

Then build tracks.

That takes time.

And it still won't change the fact that their combat vehicles are useless without petroleum.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Then build tracks.

That takes time.

No shit.

And it still won't change the fact that their combat vehicles are useless without petroleum.

So they'll ride horses until they can get oil, no big deal.

[CSS Merrimack]

Then build tracks.

That takes time.

And it still won't change the fact that their combat vehicles are useless without petroleum.

Laying down tracks actually doesn't take that much time. The Union Pacific Route got to laying down a mile of track everyday. And that was in 1866!

Which there still is within Europe. Coast of Scotland and Norway have lots of that.

[Meryuma]

Rome has literally no advantage. North Korea vs early Imperial China, that might be a question. But Rome? Naah.