NationStates

Divitaen wrote:

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:Why wouldn't they? Cossack wear is cool.

Potentially blackface is cool too. Potentially wearing a Native American bonnet is cool too. Doesn't make it right.

Potentially wearing a cleavage showing dirndl to a Halloween party is cool. Doesn't make you less of an asshole for bastardizing South German culture for your stupid costume parties.

Aculea wrote:

Divitaen wrote:Literally half my family is Japanese.

What part? Cuz you've got an out if you're from Kyushu or some other retrograde district. You can claim to be simply out of touch with Tokyo. Or Kyoto, if you're near Kyoto you must have seen the kimono rental shops and the tourists wandering the streets taking selfies in front of sacred Buddhist monasteries. I got to climb inside the daibutsu and see how he was made, best part of the trip.

Hokkaido actually. Sapporo to be exact. At least that's where my ancestors were from. The other side of my family is Chinese.

Replevion wrote:

Aculea wrote:
It's true, oh God it's true, she does this. ANIME DID NOT LIE TO YOU!

I've spent half my life studying East Asian society, both contemporary and historical, so I'm not basing my assumptions purely on anime.

Moshi Moshi, Cobalt sky desu.

What? Really, Replevion? That's no fun at all! You have to base things On anime. Have to.

Divitaen wrote:

The Alexanderians wrote:I've specifically shown up in school dressed as a cossack simply because I could not to educate people, not to make a point, simply cause I thought it was cool and so did my friends. What is wrong with that?

Because the impression everyone around you gets is that the Cossacks are just this cool exotic "other" culture that we can use for fantastical and simple entertainment. I don't think cultures should ever be viewed from that kind of standpoint. Cross-cultural exchange happens when you view other cultures as complex and multi-faceted and genuinely want to learn about them.

Why do you think cultural exchange can only be done in one way?

Aculea wrote:

Egoman wrote:I'm so fucking jealous of you right now.

I'm very sorry. I usually hide it for exactly this reason. But this isn't an abstract argument for me. When I read this thread I don't see people judging imaginary tourists in some museum, I see people judging me, directly, the way I live my life, and my relationship with my wife, and that means honesty. I put the kawaii thing on the table because it's something else where one can assume the wrong thing very easily.

My regards to your wife. She sounds like a fantastic person. Hope your relationship is happy fun times for a long time and it never ends. Cheers.

Anyone else reminded of that "We are a Culture, Not a Costume" thing from way back when?

People getting butthurt over things that don't matter seems to be a running theme on the internet nowadays.

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:

Divitaen wrote:
Potentially blackface is cool too.

I just love that word,"potential". I can put it in any false statement and it makes it technically true.

Potentially wearing a Native American bonnet is cool too.

Not potentially. The Native Americans wore it because it's cool, so they're not special.

Doesn't make it right.

That's, like, your opinion, man.

You think its fine for people to wear Native American war bonnets just for fun?

Divitaen wrote:Hokkaido actually. Sapporo to be exact. At least that's where my ancestors were from. The other side of my family is Chinese.

Why are you speaking english?
English is 53% cultural appropriation.

Divitaen wrote:

Aculea wrote:
What part? Cuz you've got an out if you're from Kyushu or some other retrograde district. You can claim to be simply out of touch with Tokyo. Or Kyoto, if you're near Kyoto you must have seen the kimono rental shops and the tourists wandering the streets taking selfies in front of sacred Buddhist monasteries. I got to climb inside the daibutsu and see how he was made, best part of the trip.

Hokkaido actually. Sapporo to be exact. At least that's where my ancestors were from. The other side of my family is Chinese.

So, are you pissed at the Japanese side of your family for having stolen from the Chinese side?

USS Monitor wrote:

Divitaen wrote:
Because the impression everyone around you gets is that the Cossacks are just this cool exotic "other" culture that we can use for fantastical and simple entertainment. I don't think cultures should ever be viewed from that kind of standpoint. Cross-cultural exchange happens when you view other cultures as complex and multi-faceted and genuinely want to learn about them.

Why do you think cultural exchange can only be done in one way?

Not one monolithic way. But the general way is cultural exchange cannot simply be one culture treating and reducing another culture to a simple trinket, fad or crude entertainment device. If its an exotic sideshow for you then I'd rather not. But cultural exchange can occur through many ways, interacting with people from another culture, learning another language, studying their history, or slowly picking up aspects of their culture.

The Carlisle wrote:

Divitaen wrote:
Potentially blackface is cool too. Potentially wearing a Native American bonnet is cool too. Doesn't make it right.

Potentially wearing a cleavage showing dirndl to a Halloween party is cool. Doesn't make you less of an asshole for bastardizing South German culture for your stupid costume parties.

I don't think that's any of your concern. Could the cultural police please leave?

Aculea wrote:

Egoman wrote:I'm so fucking jealous of you right now.

I'm very sorry. I usually hide it for exactly this reason. But this isn't an abstract argument for me. When I read this thread I don't see people judging imaginary tourists in some museum, I see people judging me, directly, the way I live my life, and my relationship with my wife, and that means honesty. I put the kawaii thing on the table because it's something else where one can assume the wrong thing very easily.

You're among friends here, I had a girlfriend that did the same thing to me I thought it was an isolated case with her.

Divitaen wrote:

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:I just love that word,"potential". I can put it in any false statement and it makes it technically true.

Not potentially. The Native Americans wore it because it's cool, so they're not special.

That's, like, your opinion, man.

You think its fine for people to wear Native American war bonnets just for fun?

You don't?

Dyakovo wrote:

Divitaen wrote:
Hokkaido actually. Sapporo to be exact. At least that's where my ancestors were from. The other side of my family is Chinese.

So, are you pissed at the Japanese side of your family for having stolen from the Chinese side?

Wtf it was an interracial marriage. How is that cultural appropriation.

Divitaen wrote:What's next then? Trying on blackface as a costume?

I don't think this is ever going to escalate to where the general public enjoys that again.

Dyakovo wrote:

Divitaen wrote:
Hokkaido actually. Sapporo to be exact. At least that's where my ancestors were from. The other side of my family is Chinese.

So, are you pissed at the Japanese side of your family for having stolen from the Chinese side?

Isn't that like...self-appropriation?

Divitaen wrote:

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:I just love that word,"potential". I can put it in any false statement and it makes it technically true.

Not potentially. The Native Americans wore it because it's cool, so they're not special.

That's, like, your opinion, man.

You think its fine for people to wear Native American war bonnets just for fun?

I do. Now what are you going to do about it?

Divitaen wrote:

Dyakovo wrote:That's why it is worn now. Prior to the 1920s/1930s it was everyday wear.

The formal kimono was replaced by the more convenient Western clothes and yukata as everyday wear. After an edict by Emperor Meiji, police, railroad men and teachers moved to Western clothes. The Western clothes became the army and school uniform for boys. After the 1923 Great Kantō earthquake, kimono wearers often became victims of robbery because they could not run very fast due to the restricting nature of the kimono on the body and geta clogs. The Tokyo Women's & Children's Wear Manufacturers' Association promoted Western clothes. Between 1920 and 1930 the sailor outfit replaced the undivided hakama in school uniforms for girls. The 1932 fire at Shirokiya's Nihonbashi store is said to have been the catalyst for the decline in kimonos as everyday wear. The national uniform, Kokumin-fuku, a type of Western clothes, was mandated for males in 1940. Today most people wear Western clothes and wear the breezier and more comfortable yukata for special occasions.

Its still degradation, either way. Wearing the kimono for formal occasions or wearing it as everyday wear, it doesn't change the fact that someone wearing it for one time at a museum for fun and to look exotic and "new" degrades the value of the kimono.

You have been BTFO by just about everyone here for the love of god sit down.

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:

Divitaen wrote:
You think its fine for people to wear Native American war bonnets just for fun?

You don't?

No not at all. And I'm not the only one:

http://www.mtv.com/news/1837578/why-you ... addresses/
http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2014 ... be-stopped

Divitaen wrote:

USS Monitor wrote:
Why do you think cultural exchange can only be done in one way?

Not one monolithic way. But the general way is cultural exchange cannot simply be one culture treating and reducing another culture to a simple trinket, fad or crude entertainment device. If its an exotic sideshow for you then I'd rather not. But cultural exchange can occur through many ways, interacting with people from another culture, learning another language, studying their history, or slowly picking up aspects of their culture.

Currywurst is a example of cultural exchange between native Germans and the immigrant Turkish culture.

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:

Divitaen wrote:
You think its fine for people to wear Native American war bonnets just for fun?

You don't?

how do you feel about people wearing medals for fun

i mean sure, you need to go through hell to get one and it's a pretty significant symbol, but i want fun, y'know?

The Alexanderians wrote:I've specifically shown up in school dressed as a cossack simply because I could not to educate people, not to make a point, simply cause I thought it was cool and so did my friends. What is wrong with that?

Military uniform are indeed classy. I myself did the exact same thing and shown up in school with an uniform of Saint Cyr the brother of one my friend gave me.

Divitaen wrote:

Dyakovo wrote:So, are you pissed at the Japanese side of your family for having stolen from the Chinese side?

Wtf it was an interracial marriage. How is that cultural appropriation.

Have you forgotten what the thread topic is already?
The kimono started out as cultural appropriation (and then bastardization) of Chinese formal wear.

The Carlisle wrote:Potentially wearing a cleavage showing dirndl to a Halloween party is cool. Doesn't make you less of an asshole for bastardizing South German culture for your stupid costume parties.

Hey, that's a really good point. Egoman, close your ears. My wife loves steampunk and every time we go to an event she's got something even more Victorian to wear. If I don't do anything in a year or two it'll be corsets, bustles, and wireframe dresses. I wonder, what is the moral way to respond to this cultural appropriation happening before my eyes? I mean, I can see how other people in this thread can feel justified in ignoring Japan's cultural appropriation of the west, seeing as doing something about it requires effort, but now it's confronting me and I have no way to hide from it.

Divitaen wrote:

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:You don't?

No not at all. And I'm not the only one:

http://www.mtv.com/news/1837578/why-you ... addresses/
http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2014 ... be-stopped

Wait hold up let me ask my father's side of the family on this one...yep he says the same thing my mother's side said about the cossacks: it's not negative it's ok. Hell this is a guy who was pissed people wanted to change the name of the Redskins. But I guess we must be crazy to let people appropriate our cultures like that.