The general gun control thread

[Big Jim P]

Lol seriously? Do you get other people to pay for your car registration? What a dumb argument.

So you couldn't actually come up with any rational answer. Noted

You get used to such from many of the GCAs.

[Risottia]

Lol seriously? Do you get other people to pay for your car registration? What a dumb argument.

So you couldn't actually come up with any rational answer. Noted

Because having people pay for the expenses deriving from their own wish to carry and operate dangerous tools in public as hobby is totally about an irrational desire.

Uh uh.

[Llamalandia]

So you couldn't actually come up with any rational answer. Noted

Because having people pay for the expenses deriving from their own wish to carry and operate dangerous tools in public as hobby is totally about an irrational desire.

Uh uh.

Depends how reasonable are the expenses? I mean, if you want a full battery of psych testing every times eons buys a gun, the. That is prohibitively expensive. If you mean once before getting a permit of some sort and a follow up/retest every 15 years or so, then ok.

[Vitaphone Racing]

Lol seriously? Do you get other people to pay for your car registration? What a dumb argument.

So you couldn't actually come up with any rational answer. Noted

Yeah man, I'm the irrational one. Totally.

You ever paid for car registration or you still to young to drive?

[The Mediterranean Republic]

I own a revolver. The last time I shot someone was...never.

If an insane maniac doesn't have a gun, he'll still kill people with a boxcutter or car.

[Vitaphone Racing]

I want to fly jumbo jets. If you want to make sure you know what I'm doing, you guys pay for my flying lessons since it's YOUR desire that I don't kill you.

[Big Jim P]

So you couldn't actually come up with any rational answer. Noted

Yeah man, I'm the irrational one. Totally.

You ever paid for car registration or you still to young to drive?

Funny thing about this post is that when pro-gun people mention that cars are deadlier than gun, we are shouted down with "cars and guns are not comparable".

[Vitaphone Racing]

Yeah man, I'm the irrational one. Totally.

You ever paid for car registration or you still to young to drive?

Funny thing about this post is that when pro-gun people mention that cars are deadlier than gun, we are shouted down with "cars and guns are not comparable".

That's not actually very funny.

In fact, it's decidedly un-funny as it fails to meet the structural requirements for typical jokes.

[Big Jim P]

Funny thing about this post is that when pro-gun people mention that cars are deadlier than gun, we are shouted down with "cars and guns are not comparable".

That's not actually very funny.

In fact, it's decidedly un-funny as it fails to meet the structural requirements for typical jokes.

Oh it was funny. Double standards and hypocrisy often are.

[Vitaphone Racing]

That's not actually very funny.

In fact, it's decidedly un-funny as it fails to meet the structural requirements for typical jokes.

Oh it was funny. Double standards and hypocrisy often are.

Please stop trying to force me to find your "humor" funny. I am entitled to my opinions, stop encroaching on my freedom.

[Big Jim P]

Oh it was funny. Double standards and hypocrisy often are.

Please stop trying to force me to find your "humor" funny. I am entitled to my opinions, stop encroaching on my freedom.

I am not trying to force you to do anything, nor am I encroaching on your freedom. I too am entitled to my opinion, and (within site rules of course) entitled to express them. Note that you are the one telling me to stop doing so.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Funny thing about this post is that when pro-gun people mention that cars are deadlier than gun, we are shouted down with "cars and guns are not comparable".

That's not actually very funny.

In fact, it's decidedly un-funny as it fails to meet the structural requirements for typical jokes.

The fuck is a structural requirement? Is a joke supposed to be a sacred, well-structured artistic piece or something?

I, for one, found it amusing.

[Llamalandia]

Oh it was funny. Double standards and hypocrisy often are.

Please stop trying to force me to find your "humor" funny. I am entitled to my opinions, stop encroaching on my freedom.

actually it is kinda funny. The usual thing is for a progun person to bemaking a comparison between cars and guns and then having it shot down by anti gun folks, in this case you made a comparison between cars and guns as an antigun person, that a progun person needed to "shoot down"...uh no pun intended.

[Big Jim P]

Please stop trying to force me to find your "humor" funny. I am entitled to my opinions, stop encroaching on my freedom.

actually it is kinda funny. The usual thing is for a progun person to bemaking a comparison between cars and guns and then having it shot down by anti gun folks, in this case you made a comparison between cars and guns as an antigun person, that a progun person needed to "shoot down"...uh no pun intended.

Good old double standards. Typical GCA antics.

[Spirit of Hope]

Then set up a system for the tracking of the private sale of firearms. There are quite a few more reasonable ways to go about this.
1) Require private sales to be carried out through an FFL, who can document the procedure.
2) Set up private access to NICS so private sales can carry out easy back ground checks.
3) Set up an easy to access/online system for documenting the transfer of a firearm. Say an online Form 4473, or something similar, that the ATF holds onto, or a From 4473 that can be turned over and held by a local police department, or a form 4473 that can be filled out by individuals and given over to a local FFL. (though that gets close to proposal #1)

Except all this means fuck all because nobody is held accountable for any gun. Making the trafficking of guns illegal doesn't mean shit when you have no way of detecting an illegal trade until after another crime is committed. The whole point of registering a gun is to ensure gun X is with person X and that person X hasn't sent it on to person Y. You cannot crack down on the improper sale of firearms without registering them first, otherwise you have no way of determining if a sale has even taken place.

Option #1 and #3 would all effectively register a gun with a person, record of the Form 4473 has to be kept for 20 years. So you take the guns ID # and trace it to the FFL who sold it, there records give you a name. You call up that person, they then either tell you where the record for there private sale is (potentially already with the ATF) down the line until you find the person who last legally owned it. Then you can investigate them for how they lost possession of the gun.

Yes this only detects an illegal transfer of a gun after the cops find the gun, probably after it has been used in a crime. But registration isn't going to do any better unless you are going to stop by peoples houses to see if they actually have the gun. All registration does is shorten the police work by a couple of phone calls.

Additionally even if a gun is registered to you it can still get stolen, or be lent out to someone who uses it illegally.

Between 700-2,000 (10%). And you would only catch those who attempted to get a firearm legally.

So, 70-30% of people then. I'll take that.

So between 210-1,400 homicides. If they don't substitute another method. To combat those numbers you want to charge the average gun owner 2,000

When we know between 30-70% of the firearms used in crimes are obtained illegally.

Hence why gun registration and proper storage are key. You can't illegally obtain guns if
a) nobody is willing to give one to you because they know they're going to be caught.
b) you didn't bring diamond drill bits to crack somebody's gun safe.

You say "go off the deep end" like it is medical diagnosis that would be noticed. It honestly isn't.

It is. PTSD, Depression, Anxiety, Paranoid Schizophrenia, et. al. are all easily diagnosed.

Accept none of those are generally linked with violence, the best you have is depression linking with self harm. Most mental illnesses aren't violent. Also most mental illnesses don't just suddenly appear.

The same can be said about a lot of things that are commonly available. And the trend is rather clear, very few firearms are actually used to injure or kill.

I'm unfamiliar of people using hammers to commit massacres.

I can point you to people committing massacres with knives if you would like. Also how many massacres happen in the United States because of guns? Once again you point to the worst case scenario, even though they are very uncommon.

I'm ok with the user having to pay for there hobby, I just don't like it when costs are so large as to deter someone from that hobby.

Stiff shit. Some hobbies are expensive, some hobbies are not. If you think shooting is expensive, feel for the poor buggers who enjoy go-karting or gliding.

Shooting isn't necessarily expensive. But adding on costs just because you would like to maybe prevent less between 2-10% of homicides doesn't track for me.

Such as a mental health exam that can easily cost $2,000.

I'd like to see more information behind this estimate.

Here, here, here, and here. The lowest you find is about $700, the highest is around $2,800. Average appears somewhere around $1,750.

Then there is the issue about those who aren't close to a mental healthcare professional, who may have to travel a good distance which only further increases the cost.

General Practitioners are more than adequate for determining the basic state of one's mental health. Why do you think they need to see a mental healthcare professional? Is this answered in the information about your estimate?

A general practitioner does not do mental health issues. If you asked one for a psychological evaluation they would immediately refer you to a specialist. Just like if they think you have a heart issue they send you to the cardiac specialist.

[BK117B2]

So you couldn't actually come up with any rational answer. Noted

Because having people pay for the expenses deriving from their own wish to carry and operate dangerous tools in public as hobby is totally about an irrational desire.

Uh uh.

The expense derives from YOUR desire.

I never said anything about your desire being irrational....I'm just pointing out the fact that it IS yours.

If I desire to get a checkup, then it would be my desire.

[BK117B2]

So you couldn't actually come up with any rational answer. Noted

Yeah man, I'm the irrational one. Totally.

You ever paid for car registration or you still to young to drive?

At no point did I say you were irrational. Your 'answer' certainly was.

Yes, I paid my registration so that I can exercise the privilege.

[Lordareon]

I am just going to say two words THE CONSTITUTION.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I am just going to say two words THE CONSTITUTION.

What about it?

[Lordareon]

I am just going to say two words THE CONSTITUTION.

What about it?

4th Amendment.

1st Amendment.

Read them.

[Washington Resistance Army]

What about it?

4th Amendment.

1st Amendment.

Read them.

Gun control has nothing to do with either of those, and I say that as someone who is very pro-gun.

[Lordareon]

4th Amendment.

1st Amendment.

Read them.

Gun control has nothing to do with either of those, and I say that as someone who is very pro-gun.

good a fellow Pro gun guy here take a look at this.

https://youtu.be/eHLsnzZgdPw

[Big Jim P]

4th Amendment.

1st Amendment.

Read them.

Gun control has nothing to do with either of those, and I say that as someone who is very pro-gun.

To be fair a GCA did make a proposal that violates both in the Mass Shooting thread (steps three and four):

Step one: Pass tougher gun control laws including an assault weapons ban.
Step two: Pass laws that require are firearms in the household to be securely stored. Allow police to randomly inspect firearm owners homes to ensure the owners are following said law.
Step three: Pass a law to abolish socially destructive organizations and use that law to abolish the NRA.
Step four: Hand out tougher sentences to people who violate firearm laws.

[San Llera]

Gun control has nothing to do with either of those, and I say that as someone who is very pro-gun.

good a fellow Pro gun guy here take a look at this.

https://youtu.be/eHLsnzZgdPw

Proof of why we shouldn't have guns: More guns = less violence???

[Lordareon]

good a fellow Pro gun guy here take a look at this.

https://youtu.be/eHLsnzZgdPw

Proof of why we shouldn't have guns: More guns = less violence???

No but it can stop crime the only people who would not have guns are law abiding citizens criminal will find a way and the only way it wold work is if we had a totalitarian government.