Greek Financial Crisis Thread

[Pollona]

Also, Syriza had the great merit of NOT being ND or PASOK. Not to justify Syriza's attitudes and strategy during the talks (I think they have performed rather badly, and I would have voted them at the last Greek elections), of course.

As a Greek I totally agree with this statement, Greeks are fed up with the old politcal factions.

Considering ND and PASOK are directly responsible for Greece's financial mess, it's perfectly understandable that people are fed up with both parties.

[Geilinor]

In case you guys are interested...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-0 ... tsche-bank

An early election is legally out of the question until January - at this point, managing until then is the only possibility.

[Liberty and Linguistics]

Wow, the polls.....fucked up.

Christ, this should be interesting to watch.

[Pollona]

Wow, the polls.....fucked up.

Christ, this should be interesting to watch.

Not for the first time within the last year.

[Parti Ouvrier]

Wow, the polls.....fucked up.

Christ, this should be interesting to watch.

Yep, the pollsters are crap.

[Parti Ouvrier]

The magnitude of the debates between contrasting sides on ERT1 does have a tendency to give me a headache at times. If I remember correctly, Greek debates can become very fierce.

Apparently, according to the German Finance Min. Schaeuble, Greece could leave the EZ 'Temporarily'
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/07 ... mporarily/

[Geilinor]

The magnitude of the debates between contrasting sides on ERT1 does have a tendency to give me a headache at times. If I remember correctly, Greek debates can become very fierce.

Apparently, according to the German Finance Min. Schaeuble Greece could leave the EZ 'Temporarily'
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/07 ... mporarily/

Which means what? Greece leaving the eurozone and rejoining when its economy improves?

[Fartsniffage]

Apparently, according to the German Finance Min. Schaeuble Greece could leave the EZ 'Temporarily'
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/07 ... mporarily/

Which means what? Greece leaving the eurozone and rejoining when its economy improves?

What the hell do they use for money in the meantime?

[Greed and Death]

Which means what? Greece leaving the eurozone and rejoining when its economy improves?

What the hell do they use for money in the meantime?

Wampum I imagine.

[Gauthier]

Which means what? Greece leaving the eurozone and rejoining when its economy improves?

What the hell do they use for money in the meantime?

Olives?

[The balkens]

Which means what? Greece leaving the eurozone and rejoining when its economy improves?

What the hell do they use for money in the meantime?

Monopoly money.
*nods*

[Parti Ouvrier]

Which means what? Greece leaving the eurozone and rejoining when its economy improves?

What the hell do they use for money in the meantime?

Perhaps Greece will print IOU's? Either that, or they will have to issue a new currency so that banks can reopen.

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

Which means what? Greece leaving the eurozone and rejoining when its economy improves?

What the hell do they use for money in the meantime?

Varoufakis is apparently suggesting they basically put out IOUs;

Top Syriza officials say they are considering drastic steps to boost liquidity and shore up the banking system, should the ECB refuse to give the country enough breathing room for a fresh talks.

"If necessary, we will issue parallel liquidity and California-style IOU's, in an electronic form. We should have done it a week ago," said Yanis Varoufakis, the finance minister.

California issued temporary coupons to pay bills to contractors when liquidity seized up after the Lehman crisis in 2008. Mr Varoufakis insists that this is not be a prelude to Grexit but a legal action within the inviolable sanctity of monetary union.

Mr Varoufakis and ministers will hold an emergency meeting tonight with the private banks and the governor of the Greek central bank, Yannis Stournaras, to decide what to do before the cash reserves of the four big lenders dry up tomorrow.

Louka Katseli, head of the Hellenic bank Association, said ATM machines will run out of money within hours of the vote. One official say that Eurobank was "flat out of money" late on Sunday, even though Greek depositors have been limited to €60 a day since capital controls were imposed a week ago.

Or, even more weirdly, they could apparently start printing out as many euros as they need;

Syriza sources say the Greek ministry of finance is examining options to take direct control of the banking system if need be rather than accept a draconian seizure of depositor savings - reportedly a 'bail-in' above a threshhold of €8,000 - and to prevent any banks being shut down on the orders of the ECB.

Government officials recognize that this would lead to an unprecedented rift with the EU authorities. But Syriza's attitude at this stage is that their only defence against a hegemonic power is to fight guerrilla warfare.

Hardliners within the party - though not Mr Varoufakis - are demanding the head of governor Stournaras, a holdover appointee from the past conservative government.

They want a new team installed, one that is willing to draw on the central bank's secret reserves, and to take the provocative step in extremis of creating euros.

"The first thing we must do is take away the keys to his office. We have to restore stability to the system, with or without the help of the ECB. We have the capacity to print €20 notes," said one.

Such action would require invoking national emergency powers - by decree - and "requisitioning" the Bank of Greece for several months. Officials say these steps would have to be accompanied by an appeal to the European Court: both to assert legality under crisis provisions of the Lisbon Treaty, and to sue the ECB for alleged "dereliction" of its treaty duty to maintain financial stability.

Mr Tsakalotos told the Telegraph that the creditors will find themselves be in a morally indefensible position if they refuse to listen to the voice of the Greek people, especially since the International Monetary Fund last week validated Syriza's core claim that Greece's debt cannot be repaid.

"It would be a pretty extreme position for Europe to say that the vote didn't matter. That is not what they did when Ireland voted 'No' to the Lisbon treaty," he said.

[The balkens]

What the hell do they use for money in the meantime?

Perhaps Greece will print IOU's? Either that, or they will have to issue a new currency so that banks can reopen.

IOU's?

Wouldn't they still owe money?

[Chessmistress]

Apparently, according to the German Finance Min. Schaeuble Greece could leave the EZ 'Temporarily'
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/07 ... mporarily/

Which means what? Greece leaving the eurozone and rejoining when its economy improves?

I think that, yes, it means Greece leaving the eurozone and rejoining when its economy improves.
The most absurd thing is that if Greece will leave the eurozone and then its economy improves, oh, well, then it'll NEVER rejoin again eurozone but it'll avoid eurozone like the plague....

[Dooom35796821595]

What the hell do they use for money in the meantime?

Varoufakis is apparently suggesting they basically put out IOUs;

Top Syriza officials say they are considering drastic steps to boost liquidity and shore up the banking system, should the ECB refuse to give the country enough breathing room for a fresh talks.

"If necessary, we will issue parallel liquidity and California-style IOU's, in an electronic form. We should have done it a week ago," said Yanis Varoufakis, the finance minister.

California issued temporary coupons to pay bills to contractors when liquidity seized up after the Lehman crisis in 2008. Mr Varoufakis insists that this is not be a prelude to Grexit but a legal action within the inviolable sanctity of monetary union.

Mr Varoufakis and ministers will hold an emergency meeting tonight with the private banks and the governor of the Greek central bank, Yannis Stournaras, to decide what to do before the cash reserves of the four big lenders dry up tomorrow.

Louka Katseli, head of the Hellenic bank Association, said ATM machines will run out of money within hours of the vote. One official say that Eurobank was "flat out of money" late on Sunday, even though Greek depositors have been limited to €60 a day since capital controls were imposed a week ago.

Or, even more weirdly, they could apparently start printing out as many euros as they need;

Syriza sources say the Greek ministry of finance is examining options to take direct control of the banking system if need be rather than accept a draconian seizure of depositor savings - reportedly a 'bail-in' above a threshhold of €8,000 - and to prevent any banks being shut down on the orders of the ECB.

Government officials recognize that this would lead to an unprecedented rift with the EU authorities. But Syriza's attitude at this stage is that their only defence against a hegemonic power is to fight guerrilla warfare.

Hardliners within the party - though not Mr Varoufakis - are demanding the head of governor Stournaras, a holdover appointee from the past conservative government.

They want a new team installed, one that is willing to draw on the central bank's secret reserves, and to take the provocative step in extremis of creating euros.

"The first thing we must do is take away the keys to his office. We have to restore stability to the system, with or without the help of the ECB. We have the capacity to print €20 notes," said one.

Such action would require invoking national emergency powers - by decree - and "requisitioning" the Bank of Greece for several months. Officials say these steps would have to be accompanied by an appeal to the European Court: both to assert legality under crisis provisions of the Lisbon Treaty, and to sue the ECB for alleged "dereliction" of its treaty duty to maintain financial stability.

Mr Tsakalotos told the Telegraph that the creditors will find themselves be in a morally indefensible position if they refuse to listen to the voice of the Greek people, especially since the International Monetary Fund last week validated Syriza's core claim that Greece's debt cannot be repaid.

"It would be a pretty extreme position for Europe to say that the vote didn't matter. That is not what they did when Ireland voted 'No' to the Lisbon treaty," he said.

Well they won't be able to pay their British creditors with new euros, they'll just demand payment in sterling.

[Novus America]

And the Greeks voted "no!" If the Troika wants Greece in the Euro, they should pipe down and figure out a way to get Greece out of the current situation without austerity.

That is literally impossible. Hence the problem. Greece gets austerity in or out. Even if the debt was forgiven austerity would continue. Maybe they can make the austerity less harsh. But Greece will not accept that.

If the EU gives in the EU is done, because everybody else in the PIIGS will do the same thing. And the ECB will collapse.

[Novus America]

Which means what? Greece leaving the eurozone and rejoining when its economy improves?

I think that, yes, it means Greece leaving the eurozone and rejoining when its economy improves.
The most absurd thing is that if Greece will leave the eurozone and then its economy improves, oh, well, then it'll NEVER rejoin again eurozone but it'll avoid eurozone like the plague....

Pretty much this. Assuming it's economy ever does really improve, a big if.

[Pollona]

Which means what? Greece leaving the eurozone and rejoining when its economy improves?

I think that, yes, it means Greece leaving the eurozone and rejoining when its economy improves.
The most absurd thing is that if Greece will leave the eurozone and then its economy improves, oh, well, then it'll NEVER rejoin again eurozone but it'll avoid eurozone like the plague....

Unless Greece exits from the Eurozone for a very short period, it seems unlikely that it will rejoin the Eurozone ever. Talk about a one way ticket. On that note, would the EU even be willing to accept Greece in again? Several northern Eurozone countries have adopted very hard line stances visa vie Greece.

[Novus America]

Which means what? Greece leaving the eurozone and rejoining when its economy improves?

What the hell do they use for money in the meantime?

That is the question. Greece has no plan and currently no capability to make its own currency. It took Argentina several years of planning to get their own currency.

[Atlanticatia]

well this will be interesting

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

What the hell do they use for money in the meantime?

That is the question. Greece has no plan and currently no capability to make its own currency. It took Argentina several years of planning to get their own currency.

As noted above, they do have the capability to make their 'own' currency - they have a printing press that will make 20 euro bills. Syriza is contemplating ordering the Greek national bank to start printing euros independently of central EU control. There is apparently a legal argument to make with regards to the Lisbon Treaty that they have that authority in extreme cases.

[The balkens]

That is the question. Greece has no plan and currently no capability to make its own currency. It took Argentina several years of planning to get their own currency.

As noted above, they do have the capability to make their 'own' currency - they have a printing press that will make 20 euro bills. Syriza is contemplating ordering the Greek national bank to start printing euros independently of central EU control. There is apparently a legal argument to make with regards to the Lisbon Treaty that they have that authority in extreme cases.

So....they will just print their own Euros?

Gee, print more money, that worked so well for people before.

[Greed and Death]

If I were a Greek I would be camped out in front of my bank because once they reopen again there is going to be about an hour tops where they have currency.

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

As noted above, they do have the capability to make their 'own' currency - they have a printing press that will make 20 euro bills. Syriza is contemplating ordering the Greek national bank to start printing euros independently of central EU control. There is apparently a legal argument to make with regards to the Lisbon Treaty that they have that authority in extreme cases.

So....they will just print their own Euros?

Gee, print more money, that worked so well for people before.

Greece is almost literally running out of money and their economy is wobbling on the precipice of becoming nonexistent. The Greek government really doesn't have much to lose at this point.